410 Hand Gun Problem?

JlazyH · July 1, 2005, 10:13 PM

I picked up this little 410/45LC thing the other day. What a kick to shoot. Could it be a problem? I know the shotguns have to be 18" long, so what about this little handgun? I know the 45lc is ok bit how legal is the 410 in such a short barrel? Anyone with any info on this little hand cannon pass it along.

Netzapper · July 1, 2005, 11:18 PM

Wow, screw my wonder nine... I think I've found my new carry piece.

I don't know the legality of it, but I'm going to venture an educated guess: if it's registered as a handgun, it's legal. There's nothing requiring a handgun to have a rifled barrel, thus that isn't a factor. Likewise, there're no requirements on caliber, so a .410 should be acceptable. Snake loads are legal, so there's obviously no legality in firing multiple projectiles from the same cartridge.

So, as long as it's registered as a handgun, you should be hot to trot.

It actually looks kind of like a flaregun, to me. Did they ever make flareguns in .410?

What's it like to shoot?

JlazyH · July 1, 2005, 11:49 PM

The .410 is a load of fun, the 45 lc shoots about a 4' flame and just about brakes both wrists.

chris in va · July 2, 2005, 01:30 AM

I almost picked one of those up at the last gunshow. Not sure what I'd use it for, but definitely unique.

smince · July 2, 2005, 09:34 AM

I think it depends on the state(naturally). If I remember correctly, the T/C Contender with the .45Colt/.410 barrel is classed as a sawed-off shotgun in California, and I think these guns are illegal there also. I remember T/C having problems with BATF on the classification of their barrel when first produced.

JlazyH · July 2, 2005, 09:58 AM

It is registered as a hand gun, the barrel is somethung else, the last 1" on both sides has a partial land and grove. I will try to show a picture of it. It does state on the box it can not be sold in the state of Cal. What a supprise.

JlazyH · July 2, 2005, 10:14 AM

Pretty rough but what do ya want ? Guess I won't be shooten trap with it.

Oh wait, maybe I will-Maybe I will

**Mal H** · July 2, 2005, 10:21 AM

"Pretty rough" doesn't quite cover it!

Looks like they etched out the inside with acid instead of any machining tools.

I'm curious what kind of pattern you get at, say, 5 yards or so with the .410. That could be the ultimate snake pistol. How much $$ do they go for 'cause that might have to go on my shopping list. (Too many copperheads have been spotted around here lately.)

JlazyH · July 2, 2005, 10:36 AM

I have only shot Winchester Super X 3" with 7 1/2 shot in it. At about 5yds it is about a 2' pattern but around 7-10 yds it opens up so far you can't really pattern it. Odley enough, the right side holds a tighter pattern than the left at 10yds. Wow, it is choked!

michael t · July 2, 2005, 11:36 AM

S&B : make a 410 thats 00buck 5 stacked on top of each other. Thats what in my 410 roit gun. My teen age daugthers love it and at room range nasty.

Not I wonder were I could hide one of those

OJ · July 2, 2005, 12:49 PM

The rifling in the barrel of a handgun makes it legal per national law. I have a "H&R Handy Gun" which is a single shot .410 pistol with a 12" barrel. The National Firearms Act (NFA) was passed in 1934 and was aimed primarily at the Thompson Submachine Gun but congress thoughtfully included many more guns - I guess to be sure they covered all bases. The "thinking" behind that law was the "Tommy Gun" was a favorite of bootleggers - never mind that prohibition ended the year before - 1933 - and congress was acting in its usual up to date style.
The Handy Gun was one of the victims (or, at least the owners of such were). It is single shot, chambered for a 2 1/2" shell, and the effective range is not much more than 15 - 20 yards. Certainly not a gun that would be used for defensive or offensive uses such as robbing banks, etc. The NFA required registering and paying a $200.00 fee - a significant amount in 1934. Over the years, collectors have petitioned the BATF to remove it from the list and they did reclassify it as a "Curion & Relic" but have refused such a sensible request for reasons only they understand. Today, the fine for possessing an unregistered Handy Gun is $10,000 and there is no legal way to register one under the BATF(E) regulations if it was not previously registered. A collector on the east coast wrote a little book on that gun and, when I notified him of the existance of mine, stated he had located some 225 specimens at that time - some 4 or 5 years ago.
I have one such pistol and, when I registered it (I was 8 years old), I had to list a reason why I owned it and I stated I was a gun collector.
There are several manufacturers making .410 handguns today but they are legal only because they also shoot .45 caliber bullets and are not smoothbores but have rifled barrels.

:barf:

July 1, 2005, 10:13 PM	#1
JlazyH Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Location: Colorado Rockies Posts: 81	410 Hand Gun Problem? I picked up this little 410/45LC thing the other day. What a kick to shoot. Could it be a problem? I know the shotguns have to be 18" long, so what about this little handgun? I know the 45lc is ok bit how legal is the 410 in such a short barrel? Anyone with any info on this little hand cannon pass it along. __________________ SemperFi 3rd MAW-E6 1964-72 "A cop is just another stranger with a gun."

July 1, 2005, 11:49 PM	#3
JlazyH Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Location: Colorado Rockies Posts: 81	The .410 is a load of fun, the 45 lc shoots about a 4' flame and just about brakes both wrists. __________________ SemperFi 3rd MAW-E6 1964-72 "A cop is just another stranger with a gun."

July 2, 2005, 09:58 AM	#6
JlazyH Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Location: Colorado Rockies Posts: 81	It is registered as a hand gun, the barrel is somethung else, the last 1" on both sides has a partial land and grove. I will try to show a picture of it. It does state on the box it can not be sold in the state of Cal. What a supprise. __________________ SemperFi 3rd MAW-E6 1964-72 "A cop is just another stranger with a gun."

July 2, 2005, 10:14 AM	#7
JlazyH Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Location: Colorado Rockies Posts: 81	Pretty rough but what do ya want ? Guess I won't be shooten trap with it. Oh wait, maybe I will-Maybe I will __________________ SemperFi 3rd MAW-E6 1964-72 "A cop is just another stranger with a gun."

July 2, 2005, 10:36 AM	#9
JlazyH Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Location: Colorado Rockies Posts: 81	I have only shot Winchester Super X 3" with 7 1/2 shot in it. At about 5yds it is about a 2' pattern but around 7-10 yds it opens up so far you can't really pattern it. Odley enough, the right side holds a tighter pattern than the left at 10yds. Wow, it is choked! __________________ SemperFi 3rd MAW-E6 1964-72 "A cop is just another stranger with a gun."

July 1, 2005, 11:18 PM	#2
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 246	Wow, screw my wonder nine... I think I've found my new carry piece. I don't know the legality of it, but I'm going to venture an educated guess: if it's registered as a handgun, it's legal. There's nothing requiring a handgun to have a rifled barrel, thus that isn't a factor. Likewise, there're no requirements on caliber, so a .410 should be acceptable. Snake loads are legal, so there's obviously no legality in firing multiple projectiles from the same cartridge. So, as long as it's registered as a handgun, you should be hot to trot. It actually looks kind of like a flaregun, to me. Did they ever make flareguns in .410? What's it like to shoot?

July 2, 2005, 01:30 AM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	I almost picked one of those up at the last gunshow. Not sure what I'd use it for, but definitely unique.

July 2, 2005, 09:34 AM	#5
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	I think it depends on the state(naturally). If I remember correctly, the T/C Contender with the .45Colt/.410 barrel is classed as a sawed-off shotgun in California, and I think these guns are illegal there also. I remember T/C having problems with BATF on the classification of their barrel when first produced.

July 2, 2005, 10:21 AM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern VA Posts: 14,081	"Pretty rough" doesn't quite cover it! Looks like they etched out the inside with acid instead of any machining tools. I'm curious what kind of pattern you get at, say, 5 yards or so with the .410. That could be the ultimate snake pistol. How much $$ do they go for 'cause that might have to go on my shopping list. (Too many copperheads have been spotted around here lately.)

July 2, 2005, 11:36 AM	#10
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 3,350	S&B : make a 410 thats 00buck 5 stacked on top of each other. Thats what in my 410 roit gun. My teen age daugthers love it and at room range nasty. Not I wonder were I could hide one of those __________________ Colt Defender ,Colt Mustang ,Dan Wesson CBOB, PPK/S, American Classic, Bersa Thunder 380 http://bersachat.comHome of Bersa American Classic new home www.americanclassic1911forum.com

July 2, 2005, 12:49 PM	#11
OJ Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA Posts: 1,569	The rifling in the barrel of a handgun makes it legal per national law. I have a "H&R Handy Gun" which is a single shot .410 pistol with a 12" barrel. The National Firearms Act (NFA) was passed in 1934 and was aimed primarily at the Thompson Submachine Gun but congress thoughtfully included many more guns - I guess to be sure they covered all bases. The "thinking" behind that law was the "Tommy Gun" was a favorite of bootleggers - never mind that prohibition ended the year before - 1933 - and congress was acting in its usual up to date style. The Handy Gun was one of the victims (or, at least the owners of such were). It is single shot, chambered for a 2 1/2" shell, and the effective range is not much more than 15 - 20 yards. Certainly not a gun that would be used for defensive or offensive uses such as robbing banks, etc. The NFA required registering and paying a $200.00 fee - a significant amount in 1934. Over the years, collectors have petitioned the BATF to remove it from the list and they did reclassify it as a "Curion & Relic" but have refused such a sensible request for reasons only they understand. Today, the fine for possessing an unregistered Handy Gun is $10,000 and there is no legal way to register one under the BATF(E) regulations if it was not previously registered. A collector on the east coast wrote a little book on that gun and, when I notified him of the existance of mine, stated he had located some 225 specimens at that time - some 4 or 5 years ago. I have one such pistol and, when I registered it (I was 8 years old), I had to list a reason why I owned it and I stated I was a gun collector. There are several manufacturers making .410 handguns today but they are legal only because they also shoot .45 caliber bullets and are not smoothbores but have rifled barrels. :barf: __________________ OJ - SEMPER FI - DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE MEMBER