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View Poll Results: What is the best hiking / camping gun
.22 pistol / rifle - bang scares animals and is light 6 4.51%
.38 / 9mm pistol / carbine - adequate stopping power for most encounters 4 3.01%
.40 / .45 pistol / carbine - proven stopping power 8 6.02%
.357 mag / .44 mag - I will haul the weight - great stopping power 50 37.59%
5.56mm rifle - My AR will stop those beasts.... 1 0.75%
308 / 7.62mm - heavy round does the talking 10 7.52%
12 ga - the mother of all defensive loads. 51 38.35%
30-06, 7mm rem mag - long range shooter 2 1.50%
.375 H&H, .460 weather mag - elephants - NP 5 3.76%
Other.... 7 5.26%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 29, 2005, 02:32 PM   #51
spacemanspiff
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is it the same as described here?
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearhunt.asp#photo

WARNING!!! link does show graphic images. WARNING!!!
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Old June 29, 2005, 02:34 PM   #52
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I got to shoot a S&W 500 the other day and fired a few 440gr bullets through it. It was unreal! I believe that it would be worthy of putting a bear down. Saw one in the gun store yesterday with 4" barrel. That seems like it wouldn't be all that bad to carry when on foot.

Oh, I voted 12ga and .40/.45
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Old June 29, 2005, 02:53 PM   #53
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12ga double barrel, two triggers. one barrel 00 buckshot, the other barrel slug.

and a 6" .357 or 44 Mag. for backup.
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:08 PM   #54
Wildalaska
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Quote:
Saw one in the gun store yesterday with 4" barrel. That seems like it wouldn't be all that bad to carry when on foot.
Even nicer when we chop that silly comp off

WildhackAlaska
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:30 PM   #55
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I voted [other]

Quote:
you're better off dressing like the locals and passing yourself off as a lifelong resident.
Being from Maine, I should fit right in!

Ruger SRH Alaskan ....
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:40 PM   #56
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So what's with the people voting .22 "to scare the bear"? I believe it's wishful thinking.

I know a couple of people in this area that fired hunting rifles over grizzlies heads, they just looked up, and went back to what they were doing. Or acted really annoyed.
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:47 PM   #57
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Ever seen how fast a 1400 pound grizzly can close a 50 yard gap?

10 gauge with drum magazine! Or second best a 12 gauge. My reccomendation is don't use hollow point slugs you need the deep penetration on something with that mass. Or at least alternate between the 2 different rounds.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:00 PM   #58
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OK, it was a .338 mag in stead of a 375. I sit corrected.

Ya thats the story on that site but its not the orignal story....don't trust the internet.

Last edited by Sulaco2; June 29, 2005 at 07:55 PM.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:11 PM   #59
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dont forget that it hadnt killed anyone.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:13 PM   #60
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.45-70 or bigger - the only sane answer for big brars

For Grizzlies, Brown Bear and Polar Bear, anyone who bets his/her life on any handgun is an insane fool, in my humble opinion.

If I were going into BIG bear country, I would carry a Marlin .45-70 lever gun stoked with Garrett "Hammerheads" for the bear and a Glock .45 for two-legged vermin.

Weight is a non-issue here when the alternative is being disemboweled by a Grizzly in a blind rage. The pain of carrying 3 or 4 extra pounds sure beats the pain of being eaten alive, don't you think???
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:14 PM   #61
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Are there any informed people who could please comment on my previous post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen426
I hope this doesn't sound silly but don't bears have super sensitive noses like dogs? How would some potent mace or pepper spray affect a grizzly? Would that be like adding some Tabasco before the meal? I know that mailmen carry less powerful versions of pepper spray because the human rated stuff is so hard on them.

If that doesn't work, I voted for the 12 gauge loaded with solid copper slugs from Remington. http://www.remington.com/ammo/shotshell/pcs_sabsl.htm I would carry that on a sling and would probably keep a .44 Mag on my hip. Actually, I just though of something else... What about loading the first round with bird shot in a short barreled shotgun and going for a head shot? A grizzly would have a hell of a time attacking what it can't see. Then you can follow that up with the slugs.
Is this just wishful thinking from a city slicker or could it actually work? Maybe I should just stay OUT OF THE WOODS!!! Lions and Tigers and BEARS!!! Oh My!!!
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:22 PM   #62
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Stephen426

It's a good question, and yes, pepper (OC) spray does work on bears. Several companies make an OC spray especially for bear that's a lot stronger than the stuff used for personal defense. I've heard it works, but I would also think it's going to depend on how determined (or ****** off) the bear is.
If that doesn't work? Ditto the Street Sweeper 12 ga. /w slugs.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:29 PM   #63
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What do you think of the head shot with bird shot though? If you can blind it, it will have a hell of a hard time charging. I'm sure their sense of smell would get messed up as well if their nose was full of bird shot.

I only mention this because some postings said powerful rifle rounds didn't drop the bear right away. If you wound it with a pistol round, you may just end up ******* it off. I've also heard grizzlies are pretty quick so out running them will only make you die tired.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:34 PM   #64
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well, if you can keep up a sustained pace of 45+ mph, you'd be OK, 'cause that's how fast they've been clocked at. I don't think I'd trust to luck that some of that bird shot would find both eyes. Not only that, but now you have a wounded and REALLY ****** off bear that has to be finished off.
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Old June 29, 2005, 05:56 PM   #65
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45 FRIGGIN MPH??? That is really moving, especially with all that weight! I guess having a slower friend go with you comes in handy here!

As for the bird shot, what if it was fired from a short barrel such as an 18 incher or 20 incher? I don't have too much experience with shotguns so I don't know what the expected patterns would be at varying distances with no chokes. I know most people think it spreads more than it actually does though.

If I was lugging a 12 gauge, I would think about bird shot (#4 maybe), followed with 000 Buck, then slugs. I better shoot fast or hoot early though. I doubt I could get 3 rounds off if the bear is closing in at 45 mph!

If we are talking about theoreticals here, I would carry a flame thrower. He'll be Smokey the Bear for sure! They we can feast on him afterwards!
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Old June 29, 2005, 06:33 PM   #66
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Evil Black Rifle all the way! It scares this pants off of liberals, so I imagine it should send a bear screaming in terror.
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Old June 29, 2005, 06:54 PM   #67
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I'm sticking with Jeff Cooper's recommendation, because, well.. next to Mr. Cooper I look young - and that's not an easy thing any more.

For those that have been there and done that, those that are there and are doing that and for the guy who literally "wrote the book" it's Jim West's baby all the way.

Although one might quibble over the round.

Thus, I voted "other".
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
I only mention this because some postings said powerful rifle rounds didn't drop the bear right away
glad you brought this up. now, ask yourself 'why doesn't powerful rifle rounds drop big fuzzy bears right away?'

in the case mentioned by sulaco, even the true account shows that several hits were made before the great beast fell. there is very few ways to stop a bear. some people fall to the ideology that no matter where you shoot a beast if the projectile is large enough it will kill/stop it. i know a kid who believes this very thing, that his flashy bling-bling desert eagle in "point-five-oh" will kill a charging bear even if it hits it in its leg. gee, can you guess why i dont go fishing in bear country with this kid?

a bear has to have its body immobilized, or its CNS damaged if you wish to stop it dead in its tracks. you can shoot it 7 times, heck, 30 times in what you think are 'vitals' and it may still be on its feet.

you would have to shatter its shoulder to stop its mobility, or fill its brainpan with lead so theres no signal from the brain to its body parts. and their skulls are very thick and very hard. you have to hit it in its snout in order to do that, and that is a very small target to hit that will most likely be moving towards you at a high rate of speed.

back to shooting its 'vitals'. even a lung shot may prove ineffective immediately if there is enough oxygen still in the bears blood.
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:05 PM   #69
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as far as the dog issue goes...in 99.9% of grizzly encounters with people who have a dog along the bear retreats. they dont differentiate between a dog and a wolf, and though they could easily kill a wolf, they dont fight an entire pack and they instinctively know that where there is one there is most likely more nearby. the only cases where bears have attacked people with a dog have been when they are between the female and a cub, too close to a male who is with a female in breeding season, or suprise a bear over an animal carcasse. however most bear encounters are: along a stream river during salmon season; suprised on a trail or in the woods; or suprised the bear while feeding on vegetation. in these cases the bear has a lot less reason to challenge, especially considering an entire pack may be right behind the dog.
as for myself, the times I have been camping or backpacking in bear country I carried a 12 gauge pump, bear spray cannister, and a 98 pound german shepherd on leash. only encountered 2 bears. one was 1/2 mile +/- away, the other was about 100 yards. no threat or challenge, they both went there way, and I went the other way wether that was the way I was going or not.
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:13 PM   #70
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I guess praying for enough penetration to get a spinal column shot, assuming you can even place a bullet with that kind of accuracy at a charging bear, is out of th question?

No one other than Capt. Charlie has commented on my bird shot to the eyes idea. What about super strong mace. It won't stop it if it is already charging but it could make the bear change its mind if it doesn't like spicy food. Besides, some of those sprays have a pretty good reach and disperse in the air. If it can't see or smell, you have a chance to pop off a few rounds.

Lets follow this idea a little further. What about carrying a Surefire flashlight with the extra powerful lamp (120 lumen) on a belt holster (assuming you can do so without playing with it all the times and drainig the battery ). If it is dark, getting nailed square in the eyes will have to blind it temporarily. That may give you a chance to move out of the way of a charge and get a few more rounds in.

I would probably look like Rambo if I ever went camping. I would definately add the mace/pepper spray and a high powered flashlight to the .44 mag (or .500 S&W) and shotgun combo. It's not that much more to carry.
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:22 PM   #71
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Close encounters of the critter kind

While backpacking, I have seen about 10 each:
- moose
- black bear (3 times with cubs)
- grizzly bear (once with cubs)

with distances ranging from 10 yards to 75 yards. Out of that, I was charged once, by a black bear who was after our food (we had been eating fragrant salami and cheese when he began to approach us), but I scared him off with my voice.
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:25 PM   #72
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Caleb,

I'm glad that worked on the black bear but I doubt you'll impress a hungry grizzly. I would toss the salami and make a run for it.

Note to self: do not eat fragrant salami in the woods
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:50 PM   #73
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stephen426 Yep, grizzly are supposed to be much harder to intimidate if they actually go for you. I like to bring along both salami and cheese, because they don't carry much water weight, don't need refrigeration for a week or two, and taste good... but those strong smells definitely attract all kinds of critters - also skunks, raccoons, etc - seems everybody likes 'em!

That black bear who charged us actually followed us over a mile from where he first saw us - we had carried our canoes into the backcountry, and when we saw him taking a strong interest in us, got into the canoes and pushed off, paddled down the other other end of the lake, carried between that lake and another, and were putting in again when he caught up to us, and that's when he charged - didn't want that salami getting away again! My photographer girlfriend actually stood there taking photos as he ran at us, and my yelling in a sharp deep voice "Hey! Hey! Hey" (like barking), made him veer off in his path, and he actually just went past us and kept right on going. The barking was a trick I'd heard a wildlife biologist describe - it worked.

It doesn't happen often though - Denali, which has tons of grizzlies, gets over half a millions visitors each year, and it's illegal to bring a gun into the park. If those bears regularly wanted to eat people, there'd be carnage like on D-Day. Does happen mind you, but very rarely.
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Old June 29, 2005, 08:11 PM   #74
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Quote:
For Grizzlies, Brown Bear and Polar Bear, anyone who bets his/her life on any handgun is an insane fool, in my humble opinion.
Lot of us up here then are insane

Just as an aside, the USFWS carries Winchester 70s in 375 H&H, cut down, many of them bearing Ghost rings (guess where they got them)

USGS is packing WWG modified lever rifles, as are many of the surveying companies and Search and rescues. Shotguns are still used by the Feds also.

Me personally either handgun (44 Mountain Gun or SIG 9mm) or 870 with buckshot. One of our gunsmiths uses a 10mm glock with Batten Perfomance barrel (found on ebay)..he has 16 shots of 220 hardcasts at 1250 fps

Ammo for the agencies?...generic Winchester 375 or HSM Kodiak fodder in either 457 or 45/70.

WildeartothegroundAlaska
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Old June 29, 2005, 11:07 PM   #75
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Can anyone tell me where I can find the audio of the bear attack?
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