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View Poll Results: What is the best hiking / camping gun
.22 pistol / rifle - bang scares animals and is light 6 4.51%
.38 / 9mm pistol / carbine - adequate stopping power for most encounters 4 3.01%
.40 / .45 pistol / carbine - proven stopping power 8 6.02%
.357 mag / .44 mag - I will haul the weight - great stopping power 50 37.59%
5.56mm rifle - My AR will stop those beasts.... 1 0.75%
308 / 7.62mm - heavy round does the talking 10 7.52%
12 ga - the mother of all defensive loads. 51 38.35%
30-06, 7mm rem mag - long range shooter 2 1.50%
.375 H&H, .460 weather mag - elephants - NP 5 3.76%
Other.... 7 5.26%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 28, 2005, 06:22 PM   #26
Wildalaska
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FWIW the bear in question that killed the two folks in Alaska was put down with a 350 grain Kodiak 457 magnum round fired from a 16 1/2 inch WWG Copilot...from a helicopter...

Went down with one shot, several others fired into it to make sure lights were out before the approach

WildgundropperAlaska
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Old June 28, 2005, 06:35 PM   #27
Buzzkill
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God. When did this happen ? I never even heard of this ??

Goes to show you there are still things out there that go bump in the night .

BE SAFE PEOPLE !!

Thanks
Bob
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Old June 28, 2005, 07:12 PM   #28
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FWIW the bear in question that killed the two folks in Alaska was put down with a 350 grain Kodiak 457 magnum round fired from a 16 1/2 inch WWG Copilot...from a helicopter...
For some reason it doesn't shock me that they took the thing with one of your guys' hand held portable howitzers
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Old June 28, 2005, 07:31 PM   #29
CarbineCaleb
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Antigrizzly dog

I think the dog idea is not a good idea. 99.99+% of grizzly encounters are not fights... bring the dog along - what are they going to do? Attack the bear, creating a problem where there was none. Recognize that even if we concentrate on grizzly country, millions of people visit there every year. And in parks throughout the US and Canada combined, I am sure it is well over 100 million visitors.
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Old June 28, 2005, 09:13 PM   #30
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The report said that they were attacked inside there tent, with an unused firearm found. That's pretty damn scary. All the guns in the world couldn't save those unfortunate souls.

I guess I'd carry a .454 Super Redhawk Alaskan, when mobile.

And a 12 gauge slug gun in camp.
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Old June 28, 2005, 10:03 PM   #31
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I agree with TheBadOne, I'd have a .454 Casull on my hip loaded with Buffalo Bore's 360gr cast bullets. Id also be carrying a long gun of atleast .416 Rigby or maybe a .458 Lott. When your life is on the line theres no such thing as overkill
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Old June 28, 2005, 10:46 PM   #32
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Good old sbe with a 3 1/2' shell that would stop the thing at close range. Or a .500s&w those are nice and big. Or 7mm mag for longer range
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Old June 28, 2005, 11:04 PM   #33
Limeyfellow
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There about 4 to 5 deaths caused a year by Grizzly bears which really isn't that many considering the sheer amount of people living in bear country. Its just one of those unfortante events. Usually when they go into tents like that they are looking for food and probrobly smelt what the couple had in the tent which is one of the reasons you want the food in a locked thick metal box away from you. Take care of garbage. Fire helps to keep them away as they can sense that from some space away. I guess they find it easier to smell than the roots that make up most their diet. Unless its a specially trained dog, its best to leave them at home. They will cause more problems than it is worth usually. Of course stay off bear paths, and try and alert bears your in the area so not to shock them. You can also set up a tripwire with an alarm if you felt the need too and that sound will usually scare of the bear without having to shoot it. If you do come in physical contact it helps to play dead and hope they leave you alone but if they start to try and eat you, you really have to fightback.

As for arms a good 12 gauge shotgun full with slugs helps and I tend to also use a .45 caliber pistol, but I must admit I haven't been more than a couple of times in bear country. The most I ever had attack me was a rabid bobcat.

Most the deaths happen where hunters accidently startle the grizzly, or sometimes to protect a carcass. Its very unusual for them to predate on humans and when they do they normally have rabies and such, much like you'll find in other species.
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Old June 28, 2005, 11:12 PM   #34
Sulaco2
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Grizzlies 4 - People 2

I have pictures and some where the news stories (its all on the net) of a griz that decided several years ago in Alaska that hunting hikers was lots easier then anything else and got 1 or 2. State Dept of the Interior flew up to look for a missing hiker and when they landed the griz charged them from the brush. The bear took 7 (SEVEN) rounds from a .375 H+H mag before giving up. Even then it took 2 to the head to finish! A picture shows the shooter holding up the bears paw and its bigger then the span of his chest! They found well chewed pieces of the missing hiker and the hiker’s .38 spl revolver (!!!!!??? ). The hiker had put 2 or 3 rounds from the .38 into the bear before becoming kibble. That bear is supposed to be now stuffed and mounted in the airport to greet and caution Alaskan visitors.

Don't forget the more recent self proclaimed "grizzly expert" from (where else?) Kalifornia who was doing video in Alaska with his girlfriend acouple of years ago. He was making a living selling the film and on the net taking donations talking about "brownies" as Alaskans call grizzlies. The guy was one of those "bears are big soft teddy's" and refused to carry any firearm around his "friends". WEll guess what apparently (?) the "friends" decided enough friendship and started to eat him. His girlfriend tried to save him by hitting the griz on the head with a frying pan (!! ), had guts I'll give her that, but the griz had her for desert!! Thing is he was videoing at the time and when he dropped the video camera the sound kept being recorded! Scariest thing I have ever heard!! Still gives me the willies at night some times....

].12 ga slugs in a Mossberg 500A pistol grip on a sling carried ALL the time!
S+W .44 mag revolver for backup!!

Although when camping in Washington State with our much less aggressive brown bears and occasional cougar (Go Dogs!) I am totally comfortable with a Colt Delta 10mm 180 gr soft points under my arm, again ALL the time. More afraid of two legged predators than any Washington animal. Kalifornian mountain lions though are making a human hunting come back recently as well!

And don't forget our eco nut friends have forced the reintroduction of wolves across the mid western states in the last five years. They should start racking up a score soon as they get organized!!
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Old June 29, 2005, 12:29 AM   #35
Malamute
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"first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart!"

A heart shot isn't a "stopping" shot on anything, and is not to be recomended. Even deer that are heart shot take off like you lit a fire under them. It's not a surprise to anyone that's hunted that a heart shot bear doesn't drop dead at the shot. Breaking the spine, on larger animals, or a head shot are stopping shots. Broken leg, shoulder or hips bones slow them down some.

Never heard of a bear with rabies. Do they get rabies?

Something that surprises me, is the wanting there to be a "reason" for the bear to predate on people. True, it isn't common in the greater sceme of things, but there isn't anything that's so special about humans that make bear magicaly avoid us at any cost. We flatter ourselves to think there HAS to be some reason or circumstance for a bear to attack a human. Maybe the ones that do, just decide they WANT to. Do they need any more reason than that? They are career predators. They do this for a living. Kill and eat stuff. Sometimes they try something different, and sometimes they realize how easy people are (usually).

I live in grizzly country, but have had no trouble with them. In this area there are commonly 2 to 4 "incidents" a year between bears and people. Some involve shooting, some don't. I take my dogs when out and not actually hunting, and always carry a Browing 1886 carbine, and a Ruger 45 Colt with heavy 325 gr loads.
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Old June 29, 2005, 01:49 AM   #36
Wildalaska
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Quote:
I have pictures and some where the news stories (its all on the net) of a griz that decided several years ago in Alaska that hunting hikers was lots easier then anything else and got 1 or 2. State Dept of the Interior flew up to look for a missing hiker and when they landed the griz charged them from the brush. The bear took 7 (SEVEN) rounds from a .375 H+H mag before giving up. Even then it took 2 to the head to finish! A picture shows the shooter holding up the bears paw and its bigger then the span of his chest! They found well chewed pieces of the missing hiker and the hiker’s .38 spl revolver (!!!!!??? ). The hiker had put 2 or 3 rounds from the .38 into the bear before becoming kibble. That bear is supposed to be now stuffed and mounted in the airport to greet and caution Alaskan visitors.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

You guys will beleive anyhting

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Old June 29, 2005, 02:08 AM   #37
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I've been looking for the treadwell audio tape but can't find it...
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:51 AM   #38
black bear 84
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I wonder what the firearm was and how much time, if any they have to repel the attack, it is my theory that there should have been some time while the bear is killing one person for the other to shoot at the bear.

The case of Timothy Treadwell (author of Among Grizzlies) and Amie Huguenard that were killed and eaten by a Grizzly in October 2003 in Alaska’s Kaflia Bay demonstrated that there was plenty of time for a gun to have been used (no gun was available) thanks to a video camera left on that recorded the panic struggle of both people (on sound only) and the subsequent feeding noises that the bear was making.

Bears, being nocturnal, mostly attack when people are sleeping and secured in their bags. I always advocate the use of an early prevention system, and a kit capable to repel an attacking bear.

In the picture you can see my kit, consisting of a screaming siren that is attached with Para-cord to the perimeter of the campsite. Also the newer addition of the Driveway Patrol Infrared Sensor, available thru Heartland catalogue and in the $30.00 range.



The Colt Anaconda in .44 Magnum will be okay to repel an attacking black bear. If I were camping in Alaska I will want to upgrade to a .45 Casull or one of the Bowen Custom revolvers.
Also I think that having a Marlin 450 or 45-70 with custom loads will not be too much out of line when camping and hiking in Grizzly territory.



The flashlight is not the regular Maglite 3 “D” that output 39 lumens but a special modification I do that outputs 951 lumens, making it the most powerful flashlight in the world. (I am selling my modifications to members of this Forum)

I have camped in the wild for many years and I have had a few encounters with black bears. They can be very unpredictable and you never will know when they will decide to make trouble for you.

Better be prepared.

Best regards,
Black bear 84
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Old June 29, 2005, 08:37 AM   #39
Gastonite
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"first shot basically ripped the bear's heart to shreds. That meant that the bear had continued to charge another 15 meters or so without a heart!"

In my hunter's education class they specifically discussed how to handle a "grizzly situation." They noted that the grizzly's heart is very large, and can continue to pump blood for several minutes, even if it takes a direct hit. Their recommendation was to break down the bear's mobility thru a shoulder shot.

Also, do a lot of side-stepping. This will force a bear to stop and readjust its charge, as they charge in straight lines towards their target.

Finally, when coming up on a bear, do not make direct eye contact. Making eye contact assumes an aggressive posture to the bear. Look at him out of the corners of your eyes (unless its too late! ) and slowly back away.
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Old June 29, 2005, 10:26 AM   #40
Duxman
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Firepower vs. Barehands

From MS NBC today:
NAIROBI - A 73-year-old Kenyan grandfather reached into the mouth of an attacking leopard and tore out its tongue to kill it, authorities said Wednesday.

Peasant farmer Daniel M’Mburugu was tending to his potato and bean crops in a rural area near Mount Kenya when the leopard charged out of the long grass and leapt on him.

M’Mburugu had a machete in one hand but dropped that to thrust his fist down the leopard’s mouth. He gradually managed to pull out the animal’s tongue, leaving it in its death-throes.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement

“It let out a blood-curdling snarl that made the birds stop chirping,” he told the daily Standard newspaper of how the leopard came at him and knocked him over.

The leopard sank its teeth into the farmer’s wrist and mauled him with its claws. “A voice, which must have come from God, whispered to me to drop the panga (machete) and thrust my hand in its wide-open mouth. I obeyed,” M’Mburugu said.

As the leopard was dying, a neighbor heard the screams and arrived to finish it off with a machete.

M’Mburugu was toasted as a hero in his village Kihato after the incident earlier this month. He was also given free hospital treatment by astonished local authorities.

“This guy is very lucky to be alive,” Kenya Wildlife Service official Connie Maina told Reuters, confirming details of the incident.

Too bad that Bear expert was not as brave as this 73 year old grandfather - he might be alive.
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Old June 29, 2005, 11:37 AM   #41
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I hope this doesn't sound silly but don't bears have super sensitive noses like dogs? How would some potent mace or pepper spray affect a grizzly? Would that be like adding some Tabasco before the meal? I know that mailmen carry less powerful versions of pepper spray because the human rated stuff is so hard on them.

If that doesn't work, I voted for the 12 gauge loaded with solid copper slugs from Remington. http://www.remington.com/ammo/shotshell/pcs_sabsl.htm I would carry that on a sling and would probably keep a .44 Mag on my hip. Actually, I just though of something else... What about loading the first round with bird shot in a short barreled shotgun and going for a head shot? A grizzly would have a hell of a time attacking what it can't see. Then you can follow that up with the slugs.

I like the dog idea. I have an 85 lb. akita. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...32#post1611232. Supposedly akitas were used for hunting bear. I'm sure it would take a pack of them to take down a grizzly but at least I would have advanced warning.
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Old June 29, 2005, 11:53 AM   #42
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WildwhatatalltaleAlaska
oooo what about the one where the goldpanner feeds brownies and blackies in his cabin down by Seward and they behave more like dogs than bears?
or that one time we were chased up a tree by a 2500 lb muskrat?
and the 120 lb king salmon we fought on the kenai but didnt have a net big enough so we just 'let it go'.
almost forgot about that time we watched a pod of orcas kill a humpback by jumping out of the water and on the humpys back to break it.

heres a tip folks. if you come to alaska and wear all the tourist-trap-swag, expect to be fed lots of interesting stories. you're better off dressing like the locals and passing yourself off as a lifelong resident.
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Old June 29, 2005, 11:56 AM   #43
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Griz Scenario

Nothing like stumbling across this thread just as I'm reading Cooper's Commentaries from Feb 2005:

Quote:
I have admired the Co−pilot from its first appearance, and I still do. Unlike many other offerings, it does have an operational niche, which is personal short−range defense against heavy, dangerous animals in the most convenient package possible. For the Alaskan bush pilot and for the African PH it presents a well thought out answer to a specific problem.
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Old June 29, 2005, 11:59 AM   #44
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... and passing yourself off as a lifelong resident.
Hey Spiff: Just out of idle curiousity, how long do you suppose that would take after the 'Jersey accent wears off?

Or, for that matter, a North Texas accent.
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Old June 29, 2005, 12:14 PM   #45
spacemanspiff
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well its actually rather simple. dress like a slob, have your vehicle held together with duct tape, fishing lures and shotgun shells should be spilling out of your car when you open the door or tailgate, mumble something about how the natural gas pipeline should go through alaska not canada, toss in a few references to ANWR opening up, and unless you talk like that aussie whacko steve irwin, you'll fit right in.
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Old June 29, 2005, 12:21 PM   #46
big daddy 9mm
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I always hate to hear about a person that gets killed by a bear

I am glad that they always hunt the bear down and shoot the fuccer until its dead. my only fear in the woods is bears because they are so smart. everyone has a diff. personalility.
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Old June 29, 2005, 12:39 PM   #47
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Long Gun 12 ga./ slugs
Handgun 454 ruger redhawk
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Old June 29, 2005, 12:44 PM   #48
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Quote:
Never heard of a bear with rabies. Do they get rabies?
They're mammals. They can get rabies.

I have heard that a bears heart only beats about 6 times a minute. Is this true?

Quote:
my only fear in the woods is bears because they are so smart.
You're lucky. I have bears, cougars, and the very rare wolf pack to worry about.
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Old June 29, 2005, 01:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
I have heard that a bears heart only beats about 6 times a minute. Is this true?
I don't think that would be right for normal metabolism, but it may be right for them during hibernation... will check on the ol' internet regarding Ursus Horribilis.

Added:
Ok, yep, check:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._bears10m.html

and you will read the following:
Quote:
An active bear has a heart rate of 80-90 beats a minute. During the winter, it drops as low as eight beats a minute.
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Old June 29, 2005, 02:21 PM   #50
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Brahhaaa indeed

Hey "Wildalaska" I found the disk with the photo's and story on it you want to see the defleshed hiker and shots of the warden holding up the bear paw? Send me an email address! Its to bloody to put on a family site. Wild tail indeed, "What a maroon" as the Bugs would say! consider yourself "...scorned, distained and scourged".
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