.38 SPL +P+ VS .357 Medium velocity

[Anibal]

Maybe it´s a old question, but i want to know:
How would you compare .38 spl. +P+ and the .357 Magnum medium velocity?
Is the .357 Medium velocity more powerfull than the .38 +P+? or are both of them the same?.

Anibal.

[GunnyBob]

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis...ults.asp?cal=5

http://www.winchester.com/products/c...U3IE1hZ251bQ==

http://www.federalcartridge.com/defa...g=27&firearm=2

ANY of the major ammunition manufacturer's will provide the information to respond to your query, as well as the specialty shops:

http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.p...2665&page=1609

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...3f75c552c307ab

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

[Handy]

Who makes +P+ .38? I've never heard of greater than +P in this caliber.

[stephen426]

First of all, not all .38 Special guns are designed to handle +P loads, and even less handle +P+ loads (if they exist). The cylinders are a lot stronger on .357 Magnums plus they handle the extra case length. A .357 Magnum is much more versitile as you can shoot everything from the weakest .38 Special loads to +P .357 Magnum loads.

If you are asking because you are not sure whether to buy a .38 Special or a .357 Magnum, go with the magnum. If this is just informational, check the ballistics charts posted above. I don't see any .38 Special +P+ loads though.

[stephen426]

On an interesting note, the .357 Sig is listed at 1350 feet per second while the .357 Magnum is only 1280. That is really cooking for a pistol round. I think its time to get myself a .357 Sig barrel for my P229.

[Mike Irwin]

If the velocity and bullet weight are the same, then the power level is going to be the same.

[Gewehr98]

On an interesting note, the .357 Sig is listed at 1350 feet per second while the .357 Magnum is only 1280. That is really cooking for a pistol round. I think its time to get myself a .357 Sig barrel for my P229.

Yes, with lightweight 125gr or so bullets. My own .357 Magnums digest 148gr and 158gr loads, so I'm curious how those bullet weights would perform in the .357 Sig.

[stephen426]

Is there a practical purpose to using such heavier rounds with the .357 Magnum? I'm not sure of the may weight for the .357 Sig but I have seen 9mms loaded with 147 grain bullets. I'm not sure of the velocities these rounds will produce. The lighter bullets have less penetration but whatever it does penetrate will transfer a lot of energy. I don't think people use the .357 Sig as a hunting round but it should be sufficient for most 2 legged vermin. If you are using the .357 Magnum as a hunting backup, that is a different story.

There was a test in Guns and Ammo a long time ago comparing the .357 Sig versus the Magnum. Using equal length barrels, they were very similar. I think they said the magnum loses some power as some of the gasses escape around the forcing cone while the .357 Sig is fired from a closed chamber.

One big advatage with the .357 Sig is ammo capacity and reload speed!

[Anibal]

I thought Cor-Bon have a 115 grains +P+ .38 spl., maybe I was wrong.
The others .38 spl +P+ are sell for police only like the 110 grains +P+ "treasury load", but I thought the Cor-bon was for sell to civilians in USA.

I wanted to know because the .357 is ban by the law in my country and I thought it could be a good option for me.

But anyway perhaps it was a silly question.

Anibal.

[Gewehr98]

So, yes, there is a practical purpose for loading a round heavier than 125 grains in a .357 Magnum chambering.

I also load 180gr bullets in my .357 Desert Eagle, but that's another practical purpose, well removed from the .38 Special +P+ discussion.

[Coltdriver]

One very nice aspect of the full size N frame class .357's is that you can shoot some serious rounds without the effect of j frame class recoil.

I have gone to just a tad under full house Elmer Keith loads in my N frame. I am driving a 158 grain bullet at over 1250 fps. At fourty five plus ounces the N frame soaks up the recoil and lets you enjoy the fireball

I used to be of the lighter and faster bullet pursuasion. Now I prefer the heaviest bullet going as fast as I can control it with an emphasis on the heaviest bullet.

[stephen426]

Anibal,

Where are you from if you don't mind me asking? I find it unusual that you are allowed to own guns but the caliber is restricted. One thing I advise you to do is find out whether or not your gun is able to handle the higher pressures of the +P and +P+ rounds. If they are loaded up close to the pressures of .357 Magnums, you might damage the gun and injure yourself.

Out of curiousity, what kind of restrictions do you guys have on gun ownership other than the .357 Magnum ban? Thanks.

[Anibal]

I am from Mexico.

In Mexico according to the law the civilians only can use:
a) For semiautomatics pistols from caliber .22 to caliber .380 except the .38 super, the 9mm Luger and similars.
b) For revolvers from .22 to .38 caliber except the .357 Magnum.
c) Shotguns and rifles of any caliber except the military type automatic o semiautomatic rifles.

Almost everybody don´t obey the law, but I dont want to have legal problems if I have to use a gun for defense so I think use the .38 spl +P o +P+ for defense.

Anibal.

[Coltdriver]

The only two things that matter are the weight of the bullet and the speed of that bullet. If the caliber is the same, there is no other thing that matters.

So get a steel .38 that will handle +p rounds and you are in good shape. For many years the "FBI Load" was a 158 grain hollow point lead wadcutter in a plus P loading.

[roscoe]

Anibal,

If you don't mind me asking, how difficult is it to get a permit to own a fiream in Mexico? I assume it is harder for a handgun.

[Mike Irwin]

Most ammunition companies manufacture some variant of .38 +P+.

However, most of them don't release this ammo to the general public, reserving it only for police use.

U.S. Park Police for many years carried Model 10s stoked with Federal Classic 158-gr. +P+. I have a couple of boxes given to me by a USPP officer.

[SnWnMe]

I chronoed some Winchester 125 +P+ out of a 6" 14 once. They consistently broke 1100 fps.

[Anibal]

Roscoe

To get a permit to own firearmas in Mexico is not very difficult if the firearms is in a legal caliber.
You only have to go to the nearest army facility and register your gun.
You can register all the pistol, revolvers and shotguns easily. For rifles no problem with the .22 LR, for more powerfull rifles you need to be in a shooting club o have a hunting permit.
When you have your firearm register you can have it in your home and use them for home defense.
What it is very dificult is to get a permit or license to carrying a gun out of your home.
For hunters and sporters there are a permit of transport for moving the firearms to the shooting club or the hunting place, but it is a diferent one of the permit to carry a gun for defense.


Anibal.

[roscoe]

Anibal,

Thanks for the info. It is my understanding that Mexico is one of the few other countries in the world where the federal constitution guarantees the right to own firearms. Is this true?

I am interested in any other facts you have about Mexican firearm laws and the general attitude about firearms.

It is interesting that pistols are easier to own than rifles - that is the opposite of most other countries.

[Anibal]

Roscoe, the first answer is yes. The Mexican constitution approved in 1917 guarantees the right to own firearms.

From 1917 to 1972 the article number 10 of the Mexican Constitution said:

"The resident of the Mexican Republic has the right to have firearms in their homes for their own defense, except those ones for exclusive use of the Army, Navy and Air force”

For those years (1917-1972) the only firearms banned was the Colt .45 ACP semiautomatic pistol, the military rifles and sub machineguns, we didn´t have a Federal law of firearms, only the constitution.
Those years were the golden years of the firmearms in Mexico and the .38 Super was the most popular caliber for handguns.

In 1972 the article 10 was modified and appear the new Federal law or firearms, now the article 10 says:

"The resident of the Mexican Republic Has the right to have firearms in their homes for their own defense, except those ones for exclusive use of the Army, Navy and Air force. The Federal Law of firearms will tell the kind of firearms which the civilian can own”

The Federal law from 1972 banned the handgun more powerfull than .38 spl.

Rifles is easy to own too, but you can´t register them for home defense , you can register them for hunting and sport only.

Maybe you can get more information here, it is a Mexican forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...&lp=1116337968

Anibal.

[Anibal]

SnWnMe, Mike Irwin, Colt Driver, stephen, Gunny Bob and the others, thanks for your answers, you have been very helpfull.
If I decided to use a .38 spl +P or +P+ would be in my S&W model 15 handgun. I have a Colt officers model and a Rossi model 68 too, but I think they are not strong enough for hig pressures loads.

Anibal.

[stephen426]

Good luck! I hope you never have to use them though. Glad we could provide some answers.

[jrfoxx]

Is it just me, or is anyone else noticing that the law-abiding Mexican people have limits on caliber and use for thier guns, and registration is required, yet (and this is based on news articles and posts here and on THR) that the criminals continue to have access to whatever they want and run unchecked murdering police chiefs, etc? looks like a good example of the failure of gun control to control criminals, only disarm good citizens.

To answer the question, however, i carry a snubbie with 158 gr lswchp +p's, and i feel 100% confortable and sufficiantly protected with it. (although, i do carry the 1911 45 acp when weather/clothing permits, mainly for number of rounds purposes). the only drawback of a 38 revolver i see is capacity. in a 'panic' situation, i prefer more chances. The best bet is practice, practice, practice though......caliber and capacity means nothing if you keep missing.....

[Anibal]

I agree absoluty with you jrfoxx, the Federal firearms law in Mexico is like the alcohol ban in USA in the 20´s, almost nobody obey the law.
Those kind of laws don´t work in the real world.
People who have studied this term thinks there are 10 firearms without register for every firearm register in Mexico, but nobody knows the real number of ilegal firearms in the country.
Criminals have any gun they want. Think this: How can a civilian defend himsalfe with a .380 ACP pistol or a .38 spl. revolver against a criminal with a AKM or a .40 S&W pistol?.

Anibal.

[jonathon]

Anibal, Glock 25 in .380 with a 15 round magazine