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Old June 28, 2005, 08:41 PM   #51
Megaloman84
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Is the US prone to anarchy?

Well, that depends on what definition of anarchy we're talking about. It also depends on what part of the country we're talking about.

Where I grew up, rural North Carolina, it wasn't the government that maintained order. In 1996, hurricane Fran came through and devestated much of the state. For a period of several days, at least where I lived, the government was nowhere to be seen. Power and phone lines were down, fallen trees blocked all the roads. Travel and communication were all but impossible. The county seat, a whopping ten miles away, might as well have been on another continent.

There was no looting, society didn't break down in a frenzy of violence and unrestrained predetory behavior.

People pulled together, broke out the chainsaws, helped each other clear the roads, mend the fences, fix the windows, catch the livestock and just generaly put things back together. People did a lot more grilling than usual, spent a lot more time with their neighbors than average, and then, within a few short days, everything was back to normal.

From what I can tell, I think that's pretty representatice of most of America. With the possible exception of those inhabiting a few blighted urban cesspools, Americans are an orderly and peaceful people who generally look out for each other and would rather do an honest day's work than get one over on their neighbors.

Hopefully though, we're still succeptable enough to anarchy to be able stand up to the state and fullfil our duty to alter or abolish a form of government which has become destructive to our ends. Being peaceful and orderly is an unequivocal blessing, being submissive and acquiescent in the face of tryanny and userpation is hardly the same thing and is certainely no virtue.
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Old June 28, 2005, 09:49 PM   #52
Garand Illusion
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Megaloman ...

That's a great post. And it happened in the 1990s ...

This is just funny, because I'm old enough to remember a few different generations of old and new talking about how the whole country is headed into the crapper.

When I was a little kid in the 60's the old timers talked about how much better and nicer people used to be and how they helped eacher out during problems.

Then during the 70's the new generation of old timers said the same thing ...

And then in the 80's ...the 90's ... the 00's ...

Basically, we're a country always changing and the "old timers" are always sure things were better when they were young. but the weren't -- they were just different.

As for the future ... like I've said, I don't know if we'll remain a superpower. I don't know if we'll continue to erode away rights, or what effect it will have if we do (i.e. the houses stolen by the supreme court recently -- bad for the people who had to move, good for the people who get jobs there).

I have a lot of concerns about our future as an economic superpower ... but I've also heard people crying wolf about that over the last few decades. And so far we're the biggest/baddest economic power in the world. Could change, but we have a lot of momentum to stay where we are.

The wiley old emperor doesn't get dethroned overnight ...
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Old June 28, 2005, 10:01 PM   #53
Garand Illusion
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Drinks ... whatever you're drinking, you better take another shot. The BLAZING LIGHT of knowledge is about to illuminate your dark little world ...

Are you sitting down?

Quote:
The program you outline is democratic fascism, which is the way we are going.
W and the boyz are dedicated fascists, look up the definition, Kerry, Kennedy and the gurlz and boyz are democratic dictatorship, one worlders.
The Constitution, which almost all pols and jurists are doing their best to make invisible and silent, is supposed to make us a representative republic, not a democracy. (and blah blah blah more drivel) ...
Democracy: government in which the people hold the ruling power, either directly or through elected representatives
Fascism: A system of government characterized by a rigid one party dicatatorship ...
(the above per Webster)

Mostly your post is too disorganized and wrong to even try to reproach point by point (to the extent you ever make an organized point) but just to clarify ...

The US is a representative democracy.
It was intended to be a democratic republic (though the central governemnt has grown greatly in power).
The whole system has been working great for well over 200 years; the future is what we're discussing here.

If you don't like our democratic republic, may I suggest you move somwhere where you will be more appreciated? Maybe Mali or Burma? How about Zimbabwe?

Seriously ... we've already got all the uneducated and bitter people we need, and more of the former coming in to the country everyday.

Hopefully I've cleared a few things up.

BTW -- I really just made the UN comment to stir things up, but given the way we manipulate it and have a veto and do what we want anyway, like invade Iraq, overall it is a good thing for us. Hell -- we're the country that pretty much created it for our own purposes!
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Old June 28, 2005, 11:39 PM   #54
Sulaco2
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Megaloman84 What you said!

Garand Illusion: Content Semantically null.
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Old June 29, 2005, 04:53 AM   #55
Mikkel
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I guess that my reply to this post yesterday was a bit harsh since it was removed. There aint no chance of anarchy in the USA now or in the future. The illegal aliens (immigrants) takes the jobs you dont want and the Chinese wont get the upper hand in any American companys now or in the future. It has been proven many times that when **** hits the fan in the US or with US citizens abroad, you stick together and work things out. That is your strength as a people and many countrys envy just that. The guys that write about anarchy in this forum are paranoid and better get their heads checked. It must be very tiring to see and think about enemys everywhere.
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Old June 29, 2005, 06:49 AM   #56
Kevin Quinlan
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Anarchy will happen if we let it. Only 5 countries on Earth produce more food than they consume.USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina. I can go a lot longer without gas or plastic crap than food. I realize it is not PC to use food as a weapon but as Sun Tzu said you use what you have.It will happen if we let it happen.

Kevin
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Old June 29, 2005, 06:54 AM   #57
Mikkel
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Yeah, but future wars will be fought for oil, natural gas and water. At the moment the USA is consuming more than its own production in about all fields, and that may be a big problem in the (close/nearby) future. But i dont think that it will lead to anarchy in the USA or western world. The only country with a state of anarchy atm is Somalia.
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Old June 29, 2005, 07:29 AM   #58
BillCnKC
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All--

Gee! I was really ready to jump in here and pontificate on the issue of American anarchy, but so many people did such an excellent job that my bit would be lost in the sauce!

So, I will concentrate on the "weapons" part in a very, very narrow sense: firearms in the anarchic, urban environment. (This is exactly what I had decided NOT to do, but you guys have handled everything I wanted to say very well.)

Since I am a law-abiding citizen--thereby, not one to promote or participate in anarchy!--I only own legal firearms. Of the firearms I own, here is my choice for use in an anarchic, urban environment . . .



I might replace that 30-rounder with a 40 round mag. Or, perhaps even one of those things that feed'em in a circular fashion and hold one hundred rounds. I would also strap a three gallon garden sprayer on my back full of water. I would modify the spray handle so I could keep it between my teeth. This way, I could keep the barrel from melting down.

As I continue to waste 30 rounds in four seconds with this baby against the pond dam, I will think about American anarchy out in the cow pasture. When I need clarification, I will consult the cows. I KNOW some of them are anarchists; you can tell by the way they chew their cud and just LOOK at you.

--seal killer
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Old July 2, 2005, 08:10 PM   #59
drinks
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Fascism

Funk & Wagnall's
A one party system of government in which the individual is subordinated to the state and control is maintained by military force,secret police, rigid censorship and government regimentation of industry and finance.
I did not say that W and the boyz had fully implemented fascism, just that they are fascists.
We are supposed to be a representative republic, not a democratic republic, the difference is the constitution.
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Old July 3, 2005, 12:35 AM   #60
roger-ruger
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kevin is right. if we let it happen it will happen. but some things cant just be controlled or way out of our control even if we want to contain it. looking back at the riots in indonesia in the late 90s sort of like an ethnic cleansing, muslims vs. christians, indo nationals vs. the chinese indonesians were things that happened unconnected at first but became like a virus that has triggered another kind of illness. the worst part of all there were indonesian authorities all the time just plainly watching the carnage happening. my GOD all were captured in vivid pictures in real time, and in these modern times. practically, it was all on the internet. chinese enterpreneurs, buildings, stores and shoppes were ransacked. most people were killed infront of other people, women were raped, children were likewise killed. some were beheaded with heads tuck in bamboo poles. headless bodies were even drag in the streets by motorcycle riding men and these all happened in the 90s. i mean this did not happen only in indonesia we saw these things in other places. looking again at indonesia, the chaos was not even from external forces, it was not even invaded by another country. it was something that happened from within.

im not taking chances though, ill be placing order soon on an M4 Carbine and w/c i think is one of the best anti-anarchy rifle. and if i see the signs, GOD forbid before they happen, ill be sending my family on a plane to a not too distant country while i stay behind and protect my property.
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Old July 3, 2005, 03:49 AM   #61
LAK
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Any country is anarchy prone; in the sense that if the right conditions exist and break down in the right places occur, anarchy is a possible or even likely result.
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Old July 9, 2005, 06:32 PM   #62
tshadow6
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anarchy

This country made it through Election 2000 in one piece where other countries would have engaged in civil war. I do worry about riots and looters.
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Old July 11, 2005, 05:13 PM   #63
Garand Illusion
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Quote:
Garand Illusion: Content Semantically null.
Sulaco2 -- you shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of. I was quite clear in my semantics and the points were well made (if arguable).
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Old July 12, 2005, 02:53 AM   #64
Metellus
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Rome

Rome, China, Britain you name it. All 3 were great powers at one point that fell apart. What drove them to decline was the few taking advantage of the many and the many relying on the state for "entitlements". And both groups believing they were top dog and there was no real threat out there.

Do i feel our american society is raising youth to believe that they are entitled to stuff without working for it and that they have no obligation to the state (except possibly do your taxes correctly or cheat just a little bit)? Absolutely. That's going to be our downfall. We arent much different than rome. The rich will get richer and the poor will feel more and more entitled. The military will be more and more pressed to hire foreign labor since its citizens don't want to fight and eventually it will all fall apart.
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Old July 12, 2005, 08:59 AM   #65
roger-ruger
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listen up everyone, when i started this topic i was writing it based on the issues at hand being experienced by my country. once again the Filipino people and its young true democracy will once again be tested by issues that have divided the country. issues that once before hounded the presidency.

let me take you back to the year 1986 - Pres. Marcos - was forced out from the presidential palace and forced to exile to Hawaii by a popular peoples revolt known as the EDSA 1 w/c installed Pres. Aquino. Okey! - 1992 Pres. Estrada was forced out from office by EDSA 2 (another people power) w/c installed Pres. (?) Arroyo, fine no bid deal. 2 months later in a bid to restore ESTRADA - EDSA 3 was again in the offing but failed to put him back to office after it failed to acquire support from the military (EDSA 1 and 2 were supported by the Phil. military). After a 2002 election and 1 year after - the incumbent Pres. is hounded by allegations of gambling pay-offs manage by her husband and brother-in-law and the latest of which is election fraud where her voice was caught on tape speaking to an election commissioner (during election time) talking of plans to rig the election to her favor.

Problem now is local governors and mayors (especially in the Mindanao provinces) - (where is Mindanao?) - (Mindanao is another main group of islands that have fiercely resisted colonizing armies; Spain and U.S. - where the moro warriors have bravely resisted American troops, was it 1906? that led to the creation of the 1911/45ACP) - the local officials are threatening to create a separate Philippine Republic (Republic my *ss) if the President is forced out from office. With this threat my province or city or my country is faced with the possibility of another BOSNIA in Asia. Talks is that a power broker arrangement is being cooked up to further divide the Mindanao region to 2 different republics. The Bangsa Moro and a Christian republic. Do I sense another Indonesia - Ambon in the making? Some say this has been planned so as to appease our muslim brothers in the region who have been fighting for a separate state since the early 70s. If this republic thing is pushed by people in power in the absence of a referendum I truly see a possibility of civil war in my country with chaos concentrated in my region.

I know, I know, the political system in my country is entirely different from other advanced 1st world countries and I understand that. That is why ive started this topic in order to get of some people with unbiased stands. If worst comes to worst ill definetely be anti-republic. Why divide a country? Im pro-federal but anti-separate republic. I know only few people can ever understand the dangers that is in the offing threatening my country but the dangers are real. I see a possibility of an ethnic war or an all-out civil war if the president does not voluntary resign.

I know there is little a citizen can do with issues of this magnitude facing a country. Whats a P89 and a 1911 commander can do with a total breakdown in civil order happening prior to a formal civil war, GOD Forbids. Right now im writing this out not as an opinion but im writing this as news and as a hope for a ray of deliverance.

I advise that if you have friends in the region - this is the best time to pull them out while theres still time. One spark ignited and everything goes up. I appeal to everyone for prayers of support nothing of any kind to pray for my country and everyone in between, im sure we (Filipinos) will have a rough ride ahead. Otherwise all I can say is 'bring it on.'
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Old July 12, 2005, 09:50 AM   #66
rick_reno
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Anarchy? Not unless McDonalds starts serving cold hamburgers.
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Old July 13, 2005, 05:35 AM   #67
dswindle
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Three things have to happen before Israel declines, and the end times start. One has already happened; one is happening now; and one has yet to happen but it is close. Number one, Israel has to become a nation again after not being one for over 1900 years. In 1948 they became a formal nation, and in 1967 they acquired Jerusalem. That has happened. Number two, Jews have to come to know Jesus Christ in numbers unparalled in history. That is happening now. More Jews have accepted Jesus as their savior than in the preceding 2000 years. Number three, the temple has to be rebuilt on the temple mount in Jerusalem where the third most holy mosque of Islam now stands. Actually, the temple could be built without disturbing the mosque, but it would still cause a tumultous riot. The Jews are already making preparations for their temple. When you see the temple being built, the time is near. My personal opinion is that my generation (I'm 57) or, at the very least, the next generation will not pass before the end times. This is all outlined in the Bible. You don't have to believe me. The book of Daniel and Revelation cover this extensively along with about seven other books in the Bible. God is in complete control. I don't worry about anarchy because certain things have to happen in accordance with Biblical prophecy. It WILL happen just as the Bible says it will. Yes, I have several guns, and I intend to defend my family, but that won't change events overall, it will just change local events for my small family. Just my opinion based on the Bible.
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Old July 13, 2005, 07:24 AM   #68
PythonGuy
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dswindle, what world are you living in?
Quote:
Jews have to come to know Jesus Christ in numbers unparalled in history. That is happening now. More Jews have accepted Jesus as their savior than in the preceding 2000 years.
What proof of this do you have besides your own thoughts?
I won't even get into all your religious mumbo jumbo because its fine if YOU want to believe it, but don't state such things as fact because its your belief. People like you have been spouting this stuff since man could talk, and we are still here, all you guys do is change the paradigm to suit your interpretations. Its the 21st century, join the world to make sure these things don't happen, don't sit back and do nothing and wait for them.
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Old July 13, 2005, 09:12 AM   #69
bdc
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Always go back to the question asked

in the event of political and economic turmoil do you feel your country is anarchy prone?

in times like these, what do you think are your best weapons at hand

in times like these, what course of actions to take against lawlessness in the streets

With some modification there are three questions.

1. You have answered your own question no. 1. Obviously if there is no political or economic turmoil, a country is not prone to anarchy. If there is political or economic turmoil, a country is more prone to anarchy.

2. Best weapons "in times like these". Geez! How high is up? Your brain is your best weapon. You train your brain on its levels of awareness, the ability to receive and process information. Some day look at the real statistics. Your chances of being a victim of a violent crime if you are a white male is about once in 10,000 years in the better sections of Los Angeles. Your chances of being a victim of violent crime if you are a black male in the poorer sections of Los Angeles is once in about 33 years. I read some statistics once in the Los Angeles Times. So get real first! Stay out of bad areas of town. If shtf, avoid the confrontational situations that people like to talk about on computer boards like Walter Mitty. Just how many of the mighty German Army who marched into Poland during the first week of WWII in August 1939 were still alive in May 1945. So, gentlemen, avoid conflict whenever possible. This means splitting out if you sense anarchy is on its way. If you don't, all of your push ups, 50 mile hikes and made up prowness of your shooting skills don't mean a d--n. A basic training "huurahh" means nothing on the battlefield.

3. What courses of action do you take against lawlessness in the streets.
Well stay out of the streets, right? Ok, for some reason you want to take control of the streets? Ok. Very easy. Use satchel charges, gasoline bombs, shoot people in the back, make up IEDs, punji sticks. It all goes back to using your noodle.

Here is a challenge. When you really want to learn an series of alternative solutions to a hypothetical situation, write down your own answer first before posting the hypothetical. Then compare the answers to your answer. Normally, you will find the seeds of the answer in the question posed. It will help you to understand your own logic and way of formulating questons.
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Old July 13, 2005, 12:13 PM   #70
Edward429451
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Gee Pythonguy, for someone who don't want to get into all that religious mumbo jumbo, you sure sound like you have an ax to grind with Christians.

So he believes the Bible as fact. So what? He chooses to believe it as so. Just as you choose to believe that you came from a cosmic mud puddle. Where's your proof that he's wrong?
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Old July 13, 2005, 07:55 PM   #71
PythonGuy
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Edward429451,

You couldn't be more WRONG! Its NOT what he believes, just that he makes fallacious statements as if they are facts. You can interpret my words any way you want, but you'd be wrong. And just as he has the right to express his views, so do I. The difference, I am not expressing my views of what I believe, although you presume to tell me what I believe and think.
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Old July 13, 2005, 10:51 PM   #72
Doug.38PR
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Ever see the movie Red Dawn? Yes I know, it's Patrick Swazye and is corny in many ways and for all intents and purposes is suppoed to be a fun action movie. But the story behind it is not too far fetched when you think about it. With as many immigrants, both legal and illegal from the third world, that we let into this country every year. It could in given time sooner or later happen. The invasion started in that movie from immigrants crossing the border that sabotoged the US interior for the invading army. Granted there is no big world power to invade us like the Russians but who needs them when you have mass immigration....or psychopaths indoctrinated to becoming human bombs and crash airplanes into buildings.

That's pretty much how the 100 years war between England and France. In a nutshell English immigrants were in mass brought into France among the French people leading to a clash of cultures and intermingling politics of each country's monarchy. Led to years of bloody conflict.

I'm not advocating xenophobia or hating anybody, but that is just the truth of it despite popular PC Political slogans that our polititans like to spout like "America is a nation of immigrants."
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Old July 13, 2005, 11:01 PM   #73
Lawyer Daggit
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The problem we have is India and China's population explosion- by the end of this century India will have a bigger population than China's. India is becoming a significant presence in the IT environment.

Western populations however are declining.

Whether this will lead to war is another question. Both of these countries as trade orientated and can achieve what they need through trade.

Like most others positing on this site I think military triggers are more likely to come from the middle east.
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Old July 15, 2005, 07:52 AM   #74
Superhornet
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In this country ?? No chance at all.......but, I do keep six Garands, 5 45's and a few thousand rounds on hand..
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