why do some people not like .38 special

relientk1988 · June 2, 2005, 02:25 PM

On some of the threads I've read some people definetly do not like the .38 special. So My question is why. How does it compare to 9mm? I know the bullet is the same diameter so why do some people prefer a 9mm over a .38 special? Well that about wraps it up, feel free to educate me further.

-Ben

mtnbkr · June 2, 2005, 02:27 PM

It's not tacticool. You can't fit 15 of them in a j-frame. Chow Yun Fat doesn't use them two fisted against bad guys.

Take your pick.

Chris

Lycanthrope · June 2, 2005, 02:36 PM

Not enough ooomph.

Edward429451 · June 2, 2005, 02:46 PM

I used to be that guy but I'm coming around though. I based my dislike on a couple cliche's that seemed to make sense, aside from the poor performance in the Phillipines against the Moro indians (yesteryears crackheads

)

"There's only so much you can do with a 38 caliber bullet, no matter how fast you push it."

and

"If I want a 38, I'll just download a 44."

Buuuut, having the dies, moulds, and tons of brass...plus the reasonable cost of good used 357's, I'm thinking I might just pick one up. My wife seems to like my buddy's wife's Taurus too.

**Mike Irwin** · June 2, 2005, 02:51 PM

Uh, they're idiots?

CastleBravo · June 2, 2005, 02:56 PM

Liking or not liking a cartridge always seemed strange to me. I guess it goes back the fallacy that if you don't have a use for something, then it must be useless for everyone. Otherwise known as: people are stupid.

.38 Special is a famously accurate cartridge. So much so, that for bullseye shooting they used to make National Match 1911s in .38 Special. As for power, well, some users want more or less power than others.

Comparing 9x19 to .38 Special is kind of dumb, since one is a rimmed revolver cartridge, and one is a rimless autopistol cartridge. .38 Special is the ideal cartridge for small revolvers, which most normal humans can't stand to shoot .357 Magnum out of, for target shooting, or for people that are adverse to recoil but still need a decent weapon. Sounds all good to me, and I don't even own one right now.

relientk1988 · June 2, 2005, 03:11 PM

Code:

Comparing 9x19 to .38 Special is kind of dumb, since one is a rimmed revolver cartridge, and one is a rimless autopistol

Dumb as it may be does anyone have any ballistics comparing the two.

P.S. Mike got it right

Webleywielder · June 2, 2005, 03:11 PM

The answer to your question is: Irrational expectations based on the pontificating of demagogues whose opinions are based on non-empirically gathered data.

With the right type of bullet and velocity a 38Spl is more effective than some .45acp loadings. No one should delude themselves into thinking any handgun is truly effective enough that they should feel confident in having decisive power to end a fight without possibly having to resort to other measures (carry a knife, learn to run fast).

Gotta go barricade my home now. The Cult of the .45acp 1911 is coming to burn me at the stake for heresy.

"In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun."

dasmi · June 2, 2005, 03:19 PM

Don't know, I like the .38 special quite a bit, especially when it has that little "+p" at the end.

brickeyee · June 2, 2005, 03:23 PM

The .38 special probably got the start of its bad rep when the typical load was a lead (or even jacketed) round nose.
Advancements in bullet technology have probably made it a not terrible choice for someone who wants to carry a small revolver.

mtnbkr · June 2, 2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

especially when it has that little "+p" at the end.

I dunno. I really enjoyed shooting my little j-frame with light "cowboy" loads this past weekend. Just enough recoil to be interesting...

Chris

Stephen A. Camp · June 2, 2005, 03:24 PM

Hello.

Some 38 vs 9mm comparison velocities are in this article:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/H...%20Special.htm

Best.

Bullrock · June 2, 2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Dumb as it may be does anyone have any ballistics comparing the two.

Oh No!!!!! Not boring ballistic stats again. Why don't we all just give our stories, impressions, biasis, etc...!!!...

I shoot mostly 9mm auto's. I'm very comfortable with them for SD, especially the hi-power. I have always been a .357 junkie when it comes to wheelguns, however, I recently purchased a Taurus 85 Ultra-Lite .38Spl.+p and, liked it so much I started using .38Spl.+p in my GP-100.

I finally had a chance to shoot my new SW 625jm (.45ACP) today, and I think I'm in love, again!!!???

Russ5924 · June 2, 2005, 06:25 PM

For just plain shooting fun just can't beat the the .38 special couldn't even say how many rounds I have fired and will keep using the .38.But for HD well I think the 9MM or the .357 or .40 cal would be better.

xXStarScreamXx · June 2, 2005, 07:16 PM

For the same amount of recoil and for the price of ammo 9mm is just easier. and is more fun to put 17 on target then reload than 6 then reload.

Redondo · June 2, 2005, 07:26 PM

Well, I like it enough to shoot 3-5 thousand rounds, each and every year! I use 45acp for my personal defense needs, but comparing the "old" 38's performance in the "Moro" situation, is just as unfair as bad mouthing the ballistics of the "old" 9mm loads. Things have improved for both, gents!

CarbineCaleb · June 2, 2005, 10:48 PM

Certainly the 9mm fired out of a semiauto has less ballistic flexibility than the .38Special fired out of a revolver. So based on the platform, the .38Special is more adaptable. On the other hand, at least with factory loaded ammunition, the 9mm is clearly more powerful, by about 50% in kinetic energy terms, and uses the same bullet diameter. Yes, you can get +P .38s, which come close to 9mm standards, but then you get 9mm +Ps too.

So if you like pow, you should like the 9mm better, if you like soft-shooting and flexibility, along with decent defense capabilities, you should like the .38Special better. Semiautos as a whole seem to outsell revolvers these days, so even if the .38 Special were a ballistic twin, I'd guess they'd still sell fewer.

longspurr · June 3, 2005, 12:11 AM

When you read articles or books by people that have closely observed the results of numerous shooting you can find some great similarities. It doesn’t matter if the year is 1899 or 1999, animals & people react pretty much the same regardless of the calendar. 38 round nose bullets were lousy 100 years ago and are still lousy today.

What has changed the 38 is stronger guns and better bullets. The target doesn’t care if the bullet was launched by a semiauto [9mm] or a revolver [38-357] it only reacts to the bullet itself. POTENTUALLY the 38 can be better, but select the wrong ammo and you're back in the ineffective catagory.

A lot of easily obtainable 38 ammo is very poor self defense ammo. Thus the 38 has the reputation of a weak sister for self defense. A lot of the CCW revolvers sold are chambered for 38 special. These snubbies rob the bullet of energy – low velocity – thus the results of shootings keeps the 38 in the dog house.

jonathon · June 3, 2005, 12:16 AM

If 6 .38's aren't enough, I'm in way over my head....

Handy · June 3, 2005, 12:20 AM

I've never read anyone "disliking" the cartridge, aside from pointing out that it is pretty far down the power band. I think some also feel that there's little point in a .38 when .357 can be had in an almost identical gun.

cje1980 · June 3, 2005, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Well, I like it enough to shoot 3-5 thousand rounds, each and every year! I use 45acp for my personal defense needs, but comparing the "old" 38's performance in the "Moro" situation, is just as unfair as bad mouthing the ballistics of the "old" 9mm loads. Things have improved for both, gents!

That and the fact the .38 Special wasn't used against the Moros, it was the .38 Colt, which was even vastly inferior to the .38 Special, let alone the 9mm or .45ACP. No handgun cartridge, at the time of the incident or 30-40 years before or after of the war would have been effective against the Moros and its quite silly that this incident keeps being brought up because nobody ever seems to have their facts straight.

625 · June 3, 2005, 09:57 AM

"If 6 .38's aren't enough, I'm in way over my head...."

I agree, except I would change the number to 5....that's all my J frame holds.

I think there might be some youthful lack of wisdom concerning this issue. Not all younger people, mind you. How many younger people run around gloating about their new .38? They love their 9's and 40's. Hollyweird doesn't like .38's either. Not cool enough.

mtnbkr · June 3, 2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

I think some also feel that there's little point in a .38 when .357 can be had in an almost identical gun.

In a k-frame or larger gun, I agree. Get down to the j-frames, especially the lightweight ones, and it's a different issue. I can shoot the small, light 357s, but I don't like to. I'm sure there are people who couldn't, but still want that size gun. The 38 is for them.

**Mike Irwin** · June 3, 2005, 11:03 AM

What a lot of people either ignore, or have never heard, about the Army's experiences with the Moros...

There were also numerous instances where the standard service rifle cartridge, the .30-40 Krag, also failed to stop them.

oldwolf · June 3, 2005, 11:40 AM

James Bond killed a lot of bad guys with his .32 so the 35Spl must be just fine!

June 2, 2005, 02:25 PM	#1
relientk1988 Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Location: Medway, Ohio Posts: 40	why do some people not like .38 special On some of the threads I've read some people definetly do not like the .38 special. So My question is why. How does it compare to 9mm? I know the bullet is the same diameter so why do some people prefer a 9mm over a .38 special? Well that about wraps it up, feel free to educate me further. -Ben

June 2, 2005, 02:46 PM	#4
Edward429451 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,457	I used to be that guy but I'm coming around though. I based my dislike on a couple cliche's that seemed to make sense, aside from the poor performance in the Phillipines against the Moro indians (yesteryears crackheads ) "There's only so much you can do with a 38 caliber bullet, no matter how fast you push it." and "If I want a 38, I'll just download a 44." Buuuut, having the dies, moulds, and tons of brass...plus the reasonable cost of good used 357's, I'm thinking I might just pick one up. My wife seems to like my buddy's wife's Taurus too. __________________ "Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long "Understand that the enemy is not the enemy in his own eyes ;this may offer you an opportunity to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate, and quickly." Lazarus Long

June 2, 2005, 03:11 PM	#7
relientk1988 Member Join Date: February 4, 2005 Location: Medway, Ohio Posts: 40	Code: Comparing 9x19 to .38 Special is kind of dumb, since one is a rimmed revolver cartridge, and one is a rimless autopistol Dumb as it may be does anyone have any ballistics comparing the two. P.S. Mike got it right

June 2, 2005, 03:11 PM	#8
Webleywielder Junior member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 160	Sift through the dogma, and you shall find the truth. The answer to your question is: Irrational expectations based on the pontificating of demagogues whose opinions are based on non-empirically gathered data. With the right type of bullet and velocity a 38Spl is more effective than some .45acp loadings. No one should delude themselves into thinking any handgun is truly effective enough that they should feel confident in having decisive power to end a fight without possibly having to resort to other measures (carry a knife, learn to run fast). Gotta go barricade my home now. The Cult of the .45acp 1911 is coming to burn me at the stake for heresy. "In a world devoid of semiautomatics, a properly set-up Webley is the ultimate full-size self-defense handgun."

June 2, 2005, 03:19 PM	#9
dasmi Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 881	Don't know, I like the .38 special quite a bit, especially when it has that little "+p" at the end. __________________ If we look at the black record of mass murder, exploitation, and tyranny levied on society by governments over the ages, we need not be loath to abandon the Leviathan State and ... try freedom. --Murray Rothbard, For a New Liberty

June 2, 2005, 02:27 PM	#2
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 911	It's not tacticool. You can't fit 15 of them in a j-frame. Chow Yun Fat doesn't use them two fisted against bad guys. Take your pick. Chris

June 2, 2005, 02:36 PM	#3
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Not enough ooomph.

June 2, 2005, 02:51 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,108	Uh, they're idiots?

June 2, 2005, 02:56 PM	#6
CastleBravo Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 1999 Posts: 2,137	Liking or not liking a cartridge always seemed strange to me. I guess it goes back the fallacy that if you don't have a use for something, then it must be useless for everyone. Otherwise known as: people are stupid. .38 Special is a famously accurate cartridge. So much so, that for bullseye shooting they used to make National Match 1911s in .38 Special. As for power, well, some users want more or less power than others. Comparing 9x19 to .38 Special is kind of dumb, since one is a rimmed revolver cartridge, and one is a rimless autopistol cartridge. .38 Special is the ideal cartridge for small revolvers, which most normal humans can't stand to shoot .357 Magnum out of, for target shooting, or for people that are adverse to recoil but still need a decent weapon. Sounds all good to me, and I don't even own one right now.

June 2, 2005, 03:23 PM	#10
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,342	The .38 special probably got the start of its bad rep when the typical load was a lead (or even jacketed) round nose. Advancements in bullet technology have probably made it a not terrible choice for someone who wants to carry a small revolver.

June 2, 2005, 03:24 PM	#12
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 17, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello. Some 38 vs 9mm comparison velocities are in this article: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/H...%20Special.htm Best.

June 2, 2005, 06:25 PM	#14
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	For just plain shooting fun just can't beat the the .38 special couldn't even say how many rounds I have fired and will keep using the .38.But for HD well I think the 9MM or the .357 or .40 cal would be better. __________________ Russ5924

June 2, 2005, 07:16 PM	#15
xXStarScreamXx Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2005 Location: Nor*Cal 707 Posts: 353	For the same amount of recoil and for the price of ammo 9mm is just easier. and is more fun to put 17 on target then reload than 6 then reload. __________________ I still don't see why cannibalism is a crime.

June 2, 2005, 07:26 PM	#16
Redondo Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2001 Posts: 287	Well, I like it enough to shoot 3-5 thousand rounds, each and every year! I use 45acp for my personal defense needs, but comparing the "old" 38's performance in the "Moro" situation, is just as unfair as bad mouthing the ballistics of the "old" 9mm loads. Things have improved for both, gents!

June 2, 2005, 10:48 PM	#17
CarbineCaleb Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2004 Posts: 2,745	Certainly the 9mm fired out of a semiauto has less ballistic flexibility than the .38Special fired out of a revolver. So based on the platform, the .38Special is more adaptable. On the other hand, at least with factory loaded ammunition, the 9mm is clearly more powerful, by about 50% in kinetic energy terms, and uses the same bullet diameter. Yes, you can get +P .38s, which come close to 9mm standards, but then you get 9mm +Ps too. So if you like pow, you should like the 9mm better, if you like soft-shooting and flexibility, along with decent defense capabilities, you should like the .38Special better. Semiautos as a whole seem to outsell revolvers these days, so even if the .38 Special were a ballistic twin, I'd guess they'd still sell fewer.

June 3, 2005, 12:11 AM	#18
longspurr Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2002 Location: On the western shore of the lake Posts: 127	When you read articles or books by people that have closely observed the results of numerous shooting you can find some great similarities. It doesn’t matter if the year is 1899 or 1999, animals & people react pretty much the same regardless of the calendar. 38 round nose bullets were lousy 100 years ago and are still lousy today. What has changed the 38 is stronger guns and better bullets. The target doesn’t care if the bullet was launched by a semiauto [9mm] or a revolver [38-357] it only reacts to the bullet itself. POTENTUALLY the 38 can be better, but select the wrong ammo and you're back in the ineffective catagory. A lot of easily obtainable 38 ammo is very poor self defense ammo. Thus the 38 has the reputation of a weak sister for self defense. A lot of the CCW revolvers sold are chambered for 38 special. These snubbies rob the bullet of energy – low velocity – thus the results of shootings keeps the 38 in the dog house.

June 3, 2005, 12:16 AM	#19
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	If 6 .38's aren't enough, I'm in way over my head.... __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

June 3, 2005, 12:20 AM	#20
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	I've never read anyone "disliking" the cartridge, aside from pointing out that it is pretty far down the power band. I think some also feel that there's little point in a .38 when .357 can be had in an almost identical gun.

June 3, 2005, 09:57 AM	#22
625 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 859	"If 6 .38's aren't enough, I'm in way over my head...." I agree, except I would change the number to 5....that's all my J frame holds. I think there might be some youthful lack of wisdom concerning this issue. Not all younger people, mind you. How many younger people run around gloating about their new .38? They love their 9's and 40's. Hollyweird doesn't like .38's either. Not cool enough. __________________ I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves. Ronald Reagan

June 3, 2005, 11:03 AM	#24
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,108	What a lot of people either ignore, or have never heard, about the Army's experiences with the Moros... There were also numerous instances where the standard service rifle cartridge, the .30-40 Krag, also failed to stop them.

June 3, 2005, 11:40 AM	#25
oldwolf Junior Member Join Date: April 22, 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11	James Bond killed a lot of bad guys with his .32 so the 35Spl must be just fine!