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Old May 11, 2005, 05:49 PM   #1
S.E.R.T.SGT
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10mm compared to .45 Auto

I am a big fan of the .45 Auto. As a matter of fact most all of the guns I own are .45...I just recently started purchasing some 9mm, i.e. CZ 75 and Glock 19. My question is this, I have been looking very seriously into getting another 10mm (specifically the EAA Witness Limited), because I have heard very good things about the caliber (I had a Glock 20 many many years ago, that my Dad had previously, but got rid of it eons ago, and didn't shoot it that much.)...Can someone tell me the advantages there are, if any, in the 10mm? (Hotter round...etc.) Or is the difference pretty much neglible and can get the same "results" with a good .45 round? I know very little about the 10mm, and would like to get peoples thoughts, those who have owned both, stats, etc. Thanks all in advance...Oh and by the way, I don't want to make this a "mine is better than yours thread", just wanting to get some information/other's experience on the 10mm, as it compares to the .45 Auto.
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Old May 11, 2005, 06:05 PM   #2
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I believe where the 10mm handily defeats tyhe .45ACP is in its use as a field or hunting cartridge. It has the potential to be much hotter and retain the power at longer ranges. I used to deer hunt with a S&W 610 and used a Hornady 180 pill at around 1300 fps. The best load I came up with for the S&W 625 with AR brass was a 240 grain Keith hard cast at 1080. They both worked pretty good out to about 50 yards , which was as far as I used them on deer.
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Old May 11, 2005, 06:13 PM   #3
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I have a friend who owns and loves his Glock 20 in 10MM. he is good with it too. It is powerful and I for one wish the round was more popular. It beats the .45 ACP in my book. There are lots of things to consider though like ammo availability, recoil etc.
I am also a big fan of the .44 magnum for just about anything I will do with a handgun (except shooting one indoors without ear protection) ouch.
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Old May 11, 2005, 06:48 PM   #4
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The 10mm cartridge rocks! I too love my G20. 45's are great and reasonably inexpensive to shoot but the 10mm is different animal.
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Old May 11, 2005, 07:34 PM   #5
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I highly revere the .45 ACP and, in fact own seven autoloaders in that caliber. About a year ago, however, I bought my first 10mm, a Smith 610-3 revolver. I have found this to be a truly WONDERFUL wheelgun, firing two great rounds (the 10mm and the .40 S&W).

This thread, however, is about the cartridge – not the platform – so I will limit my remarks to the two rounds in question. As good as the .45 ACP is, I find the 10mm to be even better (for personal defense, for mid-game hunting, and for precise accuracy – especially at ranges beyond 25 yards). The projectiles of most top-rated 10mm defensive JHPs weigh between 175 and 200 grains, whereas the .45 ACP’s bullets’ mass tend to be either 200 or 230 grains. However, the 10mm velocity is at least 200 FPS faster, and sometime more like 400 FPS. That means FAR more energy delivered to the target.

To summarize, without any question both the 10mm and the .45 ACP are great cartridges; however, for the relatively slight decreases in mass and diameter, one gains a major increase in speed and energy with the 10mm.
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Old May 12, 2005, 12:12 AM   #6
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I have multiple examples of both. The 45 is a great round that makes nice big holes. The 10mm, however, gives more versatility when it comes to load energy and velocity.

My vote would have to go to the 10. What you give up in diameter you gain in options. The 10MM also has the advantage when shooting at extended ranges.
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Old May 12, 2005, 02:57 AM   #7
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Personaly, I don't have eather a 45 acp or a 10mm. But if given the chouce I would first decide what I wanted it for. For plinking and shooting allot-get the 45acp. For power and hunting I'd get the 10mm. If trying to stop an attacking bear or couger I would rather have the 10mm. In the city for personal defence I would prefer a 45 acp. Why? I think the streat stopping statistic for both are about the same. Just the 45acp won't penatrate as many walls. I personaly carry a 40 S&W in a sig. The 10mm is a 40S&W magnum. If sig made a 10mm I might end up with one some day. Glocks are great guns don't get me wrong, Just after shooting both the sig pro and the glock- The sig felt better to me personaly. I personaly shot better with It. Both the 10mm and the 45 acp are great calibers! One more thing going 10mm though is the fact that you can find lower velocity bullets to get basically a 40S&W also if you want. Versatilaty would have to go to the 10mm especialy if you handload.
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Old May 12, 2005, 12:21 PM   #8
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I own two 10MM handguns, a Glock21 and an EAA Witness. I love them both. If Sig ever made a 10MM, I would buy it!

Having said that, I also own two .45 ACPS, four 9MMs and a .40. For self defense, I seriously doubt there is any difference at all in their effectiveness.

The 10MM is a very flat shooting weapon, and you won't have any trouble hitting at 100+ yards with it. That's one of the things I like about it.

I reload, so ammo is not an issue.

But even if the 10MM had no advantages over another calibre, you should get one "because it's there!"
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Old May 12, 2005, 12:53 PM   #9
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I don't see what advantage the 10mm has over the .45 except for hunting. If you want to hunt with a handgun, you'd be better off getting a .44 mag or better. .44 ammo isn't much more expensive than 10mm. Don't get me wrong, I like the 10mm, it just seems to be not very practical IMHO. I bought a 657 .41 mag years ago. The gun shot great, it was neat to be a little different, but it just wasn't a .44. I sold it and got the .44, because ammo is easier to find and I think the .44 is superior in every way. If you insist that your new purchase has to be an auto, go for it, but I just don't see a practical advantage it has over the .40 or .45.

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Old May 12, 2005, 01:09 PM   #10
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All the shooting I do is competition and fun, and for those two endeavors the .45 is superior, due to the wider availability of ammo and components. The same is true for defensive use, where the 10mm suffers, I think, due to its lack of popularity. How many of the .40" bullets on the market were designed with the 10mm's velocity in mind? A HP bullet designed for .40 Short & Weak velocities isn't necessarily going to work well in a 10, whereas all the .451"-.452" bullets in the 165-230gr range have been designed with .45 ACP ballistics in mind. There just hasn't been (as) much development done on 10mm bullets. As a defensive round the Nosler 135JHP, designed for use in 10mm, driven at about 1400fps would be my choice; it recoils about the same as .45 hardball, so is easy to shoot while still packing all that 10mm goodness.
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Old May 12, 2005, 01:12 PM   #11
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On of the big disadvantages of the .45 ACP has always been tactical penetration. The round is very wide and quite slow. It is sort of the opposite of an ice pick (which we all know will punch right through a vest). If a bullet proof vest will stop a .22 LR, it will stop a .45 ACP. A vest that a 9mm would whip right through will stop a .45. And it isn't just limited to shooting someone who is wearing a vest. .45 ACP gives lousy penetration through a lot of things the bad guys might hid behind. An older car with steel door panels. Big dent, no penetration. A counter or coke machine. Whatever. It overpenetrates flesh with a FMJ bullet but it won't penetrate many things at the tactical level.

10mm is smaller in diameter and considerably faster. It will give most bullet proof vests a workout. It will penetrate every car door I've ever seen. And it will get through the other things a perp might try to hide behind. Hits harder and penetrates through barriers and vests better. Those are worthwhile advantages.

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Old May 12, 2005, 02:00 PM   #12
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For most civilian self-defense situations there isn't much of a difference. Although I feel that the 10mm is a better manstopper since it offers .357mag ballistics and has the potential to be on par even with the hottest .357mag loads. Like many pointed out, in a tactical LE sense, the 10mm is much better than the .45 when shooting through multiple barriers. It will zip right through car doors and walls and still retain much of its energy. One should use what they feel comfortable with and don't get another weapon just because it shoots a more powerful cartridge. If you can't hit with your weapon it's pointless. It was determined by the FBI that it is the most effective semi-auto cartridge ever developed but they had problems with recoil and having a weapon system that would fit a lot of agents hands. It is my honest opinion that when using premium self-defense loads, the 9mm, .40, and .45 are very similar and can be great stoppers with good shot placement. With that said, I would feel more comfortable using a 10mm, and like many said, it can also be used as a hunting cartridge. I think its silly when someone says, other than hunting there are no advantages. Well thats the thing, its a powerful enough cartridge to be used for hunting, so obviously it has better stopping power. Try hunting deer or shooting a bear with a .45 and see what happens.
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Old May 12, 2005, 04:14 PM   #13
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honestly the more i read and hear about the 10mm the more i want one. depending on how finances are at the end of the summer, i may start looking for a colt delta elite. ammo's a little less available but on a major seller like midway it's not that much more than 40sw.

also, don't shoot deer with .45s - make it the bear or boar so you learn your lesson
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Old May 12, 2005, 04:40 PM   #14
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I just bought a 6" hunting barrel for my Glock 20.
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Old May 12, 2005, 04:44 PM   #15
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This "Calibers" website went "off the air" a couple years ago. Somebody on the FalFiles pointed out to me that you can still get in there to see the articles. Check out the 10mm Advocacy article. It does a lot of head to head comparisons of the 10mm and .45 ACP.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm

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Old May 12, 2005, 10:10 PM   #16
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Thanks for all of the great advice, and the input on each round. I really should have specified my potential use, as it seems that this probably would have helped define the proper caliber, if not pointed me in the right direction. I would be using this strictly for self defense purposes and if I really liked the round, potentially for duty carry. So, I hope that help clarifies a little more what I am looking into this particular round for.
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Old May 13, 2005, 12:20 AM   #17
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you know what though, if anyone's still watching this, i'm curious - how much would you trust a 10mm against a brown/grizzly?
my main purpose of wanting to get a redhawk in .44 mag is because i'd like to do some travelling before i finish college and i kinda want a sidearm that can handle a bear should i ever encounter one hiking or fishing or whatever. yea, i know it's a slim chance, but why not be prepared? so anyway, the 10mm is obviously fine for medium game and personal defense, but what about against a big, mean, hungry bugger?
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Old May 13, 2005, 08:53 AM   #18
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Any handgun is stupid against a Grizzly, except maybe a .454 Casull or .500 S&W.

Comparing similar bullet weights:

200gr .45 ACP +P: 1,050 ft/sec
200gr 10mm Auto: 1,300 ft/sec

Note that a 200gr .400" (10mm) bullet has about the sectional density of a 255gr .45 ACP bullet. So the hotter 200gr 10mm loads will shoot flatter and penetrate deeper than anything in .45 ACP.
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Old May 13, 2005, 09:46 AM   #19
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I have a couple of Colt 10mm Autos.

My opinion is, it is a specialty cartridge like the 41 Magnum and a few others that just didn't catch on like the developers wanted. If you like them you love them but the mainstream just can't see enough difference to bother with. Statistic freaks, which I was at one time, are fond of pointing out the paper ballistics and the superiority of the 10mm (or 41 Magnum, for that matter). But the scarcity and expense of ammo is a turn off to many.
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Old May 13, 2005, 11:54 AM   #20
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my question is why 10 mm bullet is not popular and is a failure in the market

why?
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Old May 13, 2005, 12:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
why 10 mm bullet is not popular and is a failure in the market
?
It's not exactly a failure, just not all that popular. Jeff Cooper started the ball rolling and spoke glowingly of the Bren Ten. That platform, based on the CZ75 did not revolutionize the pistol world, for business reasons, ie. magazines were not available IIRC. Colt made the Delta Elite and kept the cartridge alive. S&W sold some 10mms to the FBI who were trying to distance themselves from the 9mm after the Miami shootout. Trouble is, the 10mm is loud and kicks harder than the agents liked so they downloaded it. S&W saw an opportunity and introduced the 40 S&W - a shortened 10mm - with the same performance as the downloaded FBI load but the guns were 9mm sized. The 10mm requires a full sized grip frame like the 45ACP guns - another strike since the FBI carries concealed. Just lots of little things. For hunting, a 10mm will beat a 45 ACP but is fully and completely outclassed by a 44 Magnum revolver.

Similar reasons for 41 Magnum - too much blast and kick for many, no significant advantage over 44 Magnum which is more widely available and cheaper, ammo-wise. People just buy the more cost effective solution. YMMV
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Old May 13, 2005, 12:43 PM   #22
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Does being able to compete in a pinshoot with a "standard" 10mm as opposed to having to beef up the .45ACP load (and recoil springs) to the max safety range count as an advantage?
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Old May 13, 2005, 12:51 PM   #23
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"I think its silly when someone says, other than hunting there are no advantages."

No need to be rude, chief. I have my opinion, you have yours.
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Old May 13, 2005, 02:14 PM   #24
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BioDemon . . .

Quote:
"The 10mm is a 40S&W magnum."
I would respectfully suggest – and so would history – that the .40 S&W is an anemically loaded 10mm/.40 caliber round, rather than the 10mm being a .40 S&W magnum.
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Old May 13, 2005, 02:28 PM   #25
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My reason for not considering a 10mm would be the cost of ammo, since I don't make much money. Though, the Delta Elite I shot was like a dream

To sum up what you guys said it seems the 10mm fills a gap that never really existed between hunting and self defence calibres. Is that a correct statement?
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