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Old May 30, 2005, 05:48 AM   #1
futureforcewarrior22
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Registering a short barreled rifle

I was wondering as to how one would go about registering a short barreled rifle. Because I purchased a Bushmaster XM15 E2S Carbine about 3 1/2 months ago and I've been looking at their 11.5 inch upper, but it says it is for use on "rifles registered as pistols, fully-automatic machineguns, or short barreled rifles."

Any info on how to go about doing this would be greatly appreciated.
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Old May 30, 2005, 06:49 AM   #2
Greenfurniture
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You've got to fill out, pay $200 tax and get approval on the ATF Form 4 prior to purchase/assembly.
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Old May 30, 2005, 07:03 AM   #3
futureforcewarrior22
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Alright, thanks!

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Old May 30, 2005, 09:57 AM   #4
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Everything you need to know: Bardwell's NFA FAQ
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Old June 1, 2005, 05:37 AM   #5
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You better look into your state laws before getting yourself into trouble. Fines and penalties from the state courts I assume hurt as much as federal.
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Old June 1, 2005, 06:51 AM   #6
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Here's an example of what I mean. This is taken from the Michigan firearms laws. I wanted to buy a Savage Striker pistol in .308 and mount it on a rifle stock for a woods gun, but it would be illegal in Michigan. Better check you state's laws.

‘(f) ‘Rifle’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder
and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to
fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
‘(g) ‘Short-barreled rifle’ means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made
from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of
less than 26 inches.’
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Old June 1, 2005, 08:59 AM   #7
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Dogjaw - When you make a short barreled rifle, you have to first get permission from Uncle Sam by filing a form 1 (application to make an NFA weapon) and pay a $200 making tax. If possession of the short barreled rifle would be in violation of any state laws, BATFE will not approve the application to make. Additionally, unless you make or buy the weapon as a corporate asset, the form 1 requires the local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) to certify that they have no knowledge or information that your possession of the weapon would violate any local laws.

I don't know MI law, but if the section you reference is MI law, than it mirrors the federal law. Many states do. But most states also have an exception in the law for those short barreled rifles, machineguns, etc. that are properly registered with the federal government. Again, I don't know MI law, but there may be such an exception in MI. You may very well be able to mount that Savage Striker in a stock IF (and only IF) you first get approval to make an NFA weapon from the NFA Branch at BATFE by filing a form 1, paying the $200 making tax, and receiving an approved copy of the form back from BATFE/NFA.
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Old June 1, 2005, 07:42 PM   #8
Dogjaw
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Federal law is only one aspect. I posted as a warning. If federal law was the only issue considered, a lot of folks would end up in jail because of all the federally aproved firearms that are illegal in their state. The section of law I referenced is in a Michigan A.G. opinion to the State Police, and further states that a rifle (weapon fired from the shoulder) with a barrel less than 16 inches is illegal in the state of Michigan. Look to your individual state and local laws.
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Old June 1, 2005, 08:02 PM   #9
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Dogjaw - What I'm trying to explain to you is that if you do the federal paperwork (the form 1 or form 4) you need not worry about state law. To make an NFA weapon you need prior approval of BATFE/NFA and if it would put you in violation of the law (federal or state) you will not get that approval from BATFE/NFA. In fact, you won't even get the form completed to send in.

Since you need to get prior approval from BATF/NFA to make or transfer a SBR, they will check the state law to make sure possession would not be in violation of it. BATFE/NFA will not approve a transfer or application to make if approval would put the applicant in violation of state law. Additionally, unless the applicant is a corporation, an approval and signature from the chief local law enforcement officer is necessary on the form. If the possession/transfer of the weapon would be violative of any state or local law, the CLEO cannot certify the form which will immediately get the form rejected upon arival at BATFE/NFA.
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Old June 1, 2005, 08:57 PM   #10
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all for nothing

Before the DOJ, formally the BATF will even look at your form 1 or 4 they check to see if the CLEO has signed the form. If he/she did not then the trash it.
By the way, since you already mailed the $200 check for the TAX Stamp, that is processed in another part of the country, either the Ohio or Atlanta office good luck in getting this back because of the red tape, not to mentin the restructuring that the DOJ is currently going through.

IN OTHER WORDS CHECK AND CLEAR IT WITH THE CLEO IF YOU ARE GOING TO REGISTER THE SHORT BARRELED WEAPON/UPPER!

I know this because I HAVE MY FFL/SOT Dealer/Mfg
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Old June 1, 2005, 09:54 PM   #11
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tngunrunner - getting the refund isn't that bad - they WILL issue a refund if the application is rejected, but it does take time...and I'm sure you are well aware of how slow the folks at the NFA Branch can move.

BTW, as far as I'm aware the restructuring is done - BATFE and the NFA Branch were merely transfered from the Treasury to the DoJ. Prints still get processed by the FBI. There is the pending move of the office of the NFA Branch to West Virginia, and while that is causing some disturbance, Ken Houchens seems to be doing a good job of keeping things moving.
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Old June 3, 2005, 02:26 AM   #12
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futureforcewarrior22,

If you have never shot a shorty AR.....I would suggest that you do before you go through the trouble of registering one, at least that way, you will know if you still want one due to the fact that they have excessive muzzle blast. I have never enjoyed shooting the SBR versions of the AR, it just seemed to be a burden when I've had to test fire them.
Just an opinion.
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Old May 10, 2009, 10:15 PM   #13
indy_kid
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Maybe not!

"Before the DOJ, formally the BATF will even look at your form 1 or 4 they check to see if the CLEO has signed the form. If he/she did not then the trash it.
By the way, since you already mailed the $200 check for the TAX Stamp, that is processed in another part of the country, either the Ohio or Atlanta office good luck in getting this back because of the red tape, not to mentin the restructuring that the DOJ is currently going through.

IN OTHER WORDS CHECK AND CLEAR IT WITH THE CLEO IF YOU ARE GOING TO REGISTER THE SHORT BARRELED WEAPON/UPPER!

I know this because I HAVE MY FFL/SOT Dealer/Mfg"


I set up a Revocable Trust to get my suppressor, and hope to use it to get my SBR. You DO NOT need the CLEO's signature, pix, or fingerprints if you go this route.

I suggest anyone thinking about getting a Class III item set up such a Trust. Very simple; I wrote the paperwork myself, off of an example I found on the Web, and the BATFE had no problem with it! If you want a copy, let me know.
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Old March 19, 2010, 05:49 PM   #14
flashlightining
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I set up a Revocable Trust to get my suppressor, and hope to use it to get my SBR. You DO NOT need the CLEO's signature, pix, or fingerprints if you go this route.
How do you go about setting up a Revocable Trust?
I want to own a hk94 with short barrel.
thanks
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Old March 19, 2010, 07:09 PM   #15
Hkmp5sd
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How do you go about setting up a Revocable Trust?
The best way is to go through a lawyer that handles trusts. There are even lawyers that specialize in NFA trusts.

The cheap route is to use something like QUICKEN or one of the online sites like Legal Zoom that generate legal forms. There has been some talk that ATF doesn't like these types of trusts and if they determine your trust is not valid, all NFA items listed on your trust that they have already approved become contriband. Of course, there will now be a dozen folks that have used these methods to acquire NFA items chime in and say they have had no problems.
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