The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 22, 2005, 06:24 PM   #26
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,428
Capt.,

I must admit truthfully that I've not waking up on the wrong side of the bed but the short end of a needle.

My grumpyness is in the form of a steriod type drug that was prescribed to me, and it's supposed to slow everything down but man, does it make you one grumpy SOB.

So, right now, many of my posts will either be angry or just defeatist. The way of the drug I guess.

But, all of my post are honest as I see them .

Wayne
USP45usp is offline  
Old May 23, 2005, 12:45 PM   #27
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,304
No harm done Wayne. You have my sympathy on the needles; I don't think I'd exactly be a happy camper either.

Please do consider this though. In spite of all the "conspiracy theories" and news media hype when a LEO abuses his power, there are literally tens of thousands of officers out there doing the Right Thing that don't get the press while the few that do wrong get the press and are presented by the media as the "norm".
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old June 4, 2005, 03:13 PM   #28
OF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2000
Posts: 2,239
http://www.taser.com/law/videos.htm

The OC Spray v. Tazer video is something else. It's the 'RCMP Testing' vid towards the top.

I know what I'd be packing if I was a cop. You can keep the OC.

- Gabe
OF is offline  
Old June 4, 2005, 05:07 PM   #29
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
As part of the Homeland Security course I am taking we had to take a police tactics course taught by local law enforcment instructors. We got to play with some CS Grenades..look like a big black ball...but damn they put out some CS.... I got a chuckle as one of the younger fellows in the class said he wanted to walk in the cloud He asked me would it hurt...lol. Some of the young folks were not paying attention to the CS cloud and the wind shifted..hehe. I was already upwind

Plus they had a paintball type gun that fired pepper capsules...then pepper capsules was helluva hot we were shooting a cardboard target against the wall the wind shifted..hehe and we just got a little wiff.....ouch

They also had a training film for this... and a film when the department first tried it...

The deputy volunteered and they took before and after pictures....

The instructor told us that the deputy was told to fall to the ground when he had enough. The deputy forgot and they kept pouring it on him he was holding his hand out saying stop He finally fell to the ground. This guy was built like a Cat D9 Bulldozer. Those pepper balls must have hurt like hell because he had big blood welts on him.

I got a chuckle at one training video of an inmate who hid behind the wall in a shoer and wouldnt come out...they just fired at an angle into the stall..hehe

One of our Instructors was aslo a SWAT Instructor. he said he never carried pepper spray because the stuff alays ended up getting on him also. He does carry a taser tho.......
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
Old December 30, 2012, 02:29 PM   #30
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
OC sprays, chemical agents...

I took a Mace/chemical class a few years ago, www.S2Institute.com . The class instructor, Jay Pace, was first-rate. Mr Pace is a SE Asia combat veteran(2 tours as a USMC Scout-Sniper) & a retired sworn LE officer(Largo Florida).
One of the S2 cadre told our training class he had no effect from OC sprays and that about 2/3 out of a 100 people may not have any reaction to chemical agents.
Many cops and corrections officers avoid foam type agents. The sprayed subject can fling OC foam at you or smear it back on you in a rage. A company called Zarc markets a chemical agent called Vextor that uses a new "micro-spin" system. It looks impressive.
I like Cold Steel's Inferno brand too. It's a mix of OC & black pepper(2%).
I have some Mk III Sabre Red but may replace it soon.
I also never saw any commercial grade(open public) chemical agent rated past 2,000,000 SHU. What brands are around 5,000,000 SHU?

CF
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old December 30, 2012, 03:14 PM   #31
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,494
Quote:
I took a Mace/chemical class a few years ago
7 or 8 years ago like this thread?
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old December 30, 2012, 03:29 PM   #32
RobertInIowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 149
Looks to me like he asked for extra mustard on his hot dog..
__________________
Guns don't kill people, fathers with pretty daughters do.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three comes pretty close.
Proud NRA member
RobertInIowa is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 04:43 AM   #33
Jammer Six
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 827
Pepper spray doesn't affect everyone.

The "older black gentleman" was a major in the state police, and didn't like the attitudes of the officers that stopped him.
__________________
"Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998
Jammer Six is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 10:04 AM   #34
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,160
^ True..

However, when I got pepper sprayed. It was the seventh circle of hell.


PS. This IS a zombie thread. Clyyyyyyyyyde???
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 11:08 AM   #35
Gbro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,056
And the tazer is a whole lot Easier on my eye's than the OC's that used to be sprayed on the occasional nut case I transport to the CooCoo bin.
Just a couple nights ago while staged for a Phyc call I was wondering how many prongs I was going to find on my Pt. when I got him, but with all the unsnapped tazer holsters it might have been enough, I got him with no wires and NO CS!!!
__________________
Gbro
CGVS
For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18
Gbro is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 12:22 PM   #36
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,737
We use gas all the time. Use of force every day in some units. Current spray is Sabre Red, AKA "seasoning in a can". We went to the water based formula, abandoning our Bodyguard LE-10 that had worked so well, because it was alcohol based, and an inmate in Florida had apparently been doused with an alcohol based spray then tased - and he lit up. Oops. So we went to this stuff.
I am NOT immune to gas, hate the stuff. Ever try to keep a camera going on a scene where someone has been liberally sprayed right in front of you? Caught enough backblast on that one that 90% of the sound on tape was me coughing and gagging. We are switching to a new one called Phantom, (being a guy who carries a CZ SP-01 Phantom, I have to say I like the name ), which already has a reputation of being extremely effective. About time.
I HAVE seen someone take the taser with little to no effect - he rode the lightning four times with little to no effect. He gave up because he was getting bored. I have also met people immune to OC, and trust me, hot peppers have nothing to do with it. If it did, many of our inmates would be immune - jalapenos are a very popular item on the store list.
BTW, holy thread resurrection, Batman!
__________________
http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.
armoredman is offline  
Old January 1, 2013, 11:09 PM   #37
ClydeFrog
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2010
Posts: 5,798
Vexor/Zarc....

I saw a informative website & clip about Zarc's Vexor chemical agent.
The reports say it's 15,000,000 SHU! That's a spicy meatball(as the "Chief" on A&E's Small Town Security would say, ). The micro-spin format is good.
NOTE: Vexor in the 1.45% content may be only available to sworn LE officers, certified corrections & licensed(trained) security officers. I've also heard Vexor is issued by DHS's US Border Patrol & CBP(Customs and Border Protection).

Clyde
ClydeFrog is offline  
Old January 3, 2013, 04:47 AM   #38
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,759
I think you probably can get some immunity from peppers.
Cayenne may be 30-50,000, but it isn't a very hot pepper.
I regularly use olive oil with a Ghost Pepper in it. Even in a mixture it is many times hotter than relatively mild cayenne(800,000- 1,500,000 SHU for the ghost). I usually use chop sticks to handle the peppers when preparing the mix as using my hands then going to the restroom, rubbing my eyes, etc is unpleasant.

The dose may also be much larger with food. Popping a habanero in your mouth likely delivers a larger dose than a spray that is landing mostly on your skin or going into the wind.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is online now  
Old January 3, 2013, 09:51 AM   #39
teeroux
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Posts: 1,489
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't consider someone coming at me with a knife or ball bat "innocent people". Only time I deploy a Taser or OC is on someone armed with a sharp object or impact weapon... or if they're a hell of a lot bigger than me.
(bold mine)

I hope you are joking?

I match deadly force for deadly force. First thing in a situation like that gets pointed at them is a G22. If there is a stand off or another officer then there will be a taser pointed at them.
teeroux is offline  
Old January 3, 2013, 10:19 AM   #40
jason_iowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
Pepper spray is very effective on me I hate it. I wont carry it. There is not as much worry about blow back with gel or foam as in the OP photo. I find a blinding flashlight to be good enough of a non lethal deterrent.
jason_iowa is offline  
Old January 3, 2013, 10:21 AM   #41
giaquir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Deerfield,New Hampshire
Posts: 399
Doesn't seem like much of a stream
and kind of close to deploy it.
giaquir is offline  
Old January 3, 2013, 10:46 PM   #42
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 2,103
OC has mixed results. It usually ends up getting me as bad as it did the person I sprayed.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old January 4, 2013, 08:35 AM   #43
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,052
I love spicy food, douse most of my food with habanero sauce, and regularly complete hot wing challenges. I've also been pepper sprayed - just to see what all the hubbub was about - and I didn't notice any immunity. Maybe it wasn't as bad as it would have been for someone who doesn't eat spicy food, but it still made my eyes swell shut, and pretty well incapacitated me.
YMMV
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10783 seconds with 8 queries