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Old May 12, 2005, 12:16 AM   #1
41special
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Problems crimping .45 colt

Ok, I'm using R-P .45 Colt Nickel cases, Hornady Dies, and Hornady 250 GR JHP.

The problem is I can't seem to get enough neck tension to hold the bullets in place during crimping, I don't even expand the case neck.

During crimping the bullet gets shoved down in the case.

I'm seating and crimping seperatly, but the bullet falls in the case!

Doing it together dosent produce results either!!

I don't get it, Help

I want this stuff for my M25 Mountain Gun, and I'm at the end of my rope!!
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Old May 12, 2005, 03:42 AM   #2
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what is the diameter of the expanding plug?
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Old May 12, 2005, 03:45 AM   #3
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I'll check when I get home, but I'm not even using it. I'm resizing, and seating.
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Old May 12, 2005, 08:30 AM   #4
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The neck tension is created in the sizing die, not in the crimp. The crimp ADDS resistance to the bullet leaving the case, either during firing or as bullet pull when another chamber is bing fired. Without proper case tension prior to the crimp the loads never will work well.

Your sizing die, is it screwed ALL the way down where it contacts the shell holder? This is especially important if it isn't a carbide die. If it is adjusted right have you tried some other brass? Thin brass will do what you are seeing too. How old is the die set? If the die set is pretty old it might be set up for .454" bullets, and would act like what you are seeing. What is the ID of the sized case?

This is usually pretty simple to get through with a little Q&A.
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Old May 20, 2005, 12:06 PM   #5
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HSMITH is right on target with the neck tension comments. If your die is set up for the larger bullets, the neck tension will be insufficient. A quick test for this would be to size the necks of your cases with a .45 ACP die. This will size it down quite a bit.

Have you measured your bullets? Are they undersized maybe?


I have two RCBS and a Lyman .45 Colt carbide sizing die and I do not have this trouble. My cases are sized down to where I have enough neck tension that I have to use the expander die. But I get good consistant ammo that way.

Joe
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Old May 20, 2005, 12:32 PM   #6
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I'd bet good money that HSMITH has the answer with the .454 sizing die made for older .45 Colts. You might need a new die set.
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Old May 20, 2005, 02:48 PM   #7
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I just went through this myself when loading for MY new S&W 25-13 Mountain Gun. The Hornady .45 Colt sizing dies--new, current production mind you--are for .454" bullets (WHY!!!???). You need Hornady's .454 Casull sizing die to use .452" bullets. When I called in with this issue they sent me one for free. The fellow I talked to sounded as if I wasn't the first person to have this problem.
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Old May 20, 2005, 03:12 PM   #8
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If you stick with the Hornady brand, either the .454 Casull die set is necessary as Cortland mentioned or the .45 ACP/AR/WIN/LC die set (New Dimension Series II). I've been using the latter die set for years and it has worked very well for .45 Colt.

Hornady's set specifically made for .45 Colt is not correct for modern .45 Colt firearms and ammo.

Hornady's web site is less than helpful in determining the proper set to purchase.
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Old May 20, 2005, 03:23 PM   #9
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Astonishment - - And another suggestion

WOW! It's really hard to believe that such a first-line outfit as Hornady is selling dies fit only for pre-WWII firearms and true .454" bullets!

As suggested above - - Get on the phone to Hornady, raise a little cain (Cane??) and see if they'll send you the proper die.

In the meanwhile - - Do you have a set of .45 ACP dies on the shelf. this is probably the easiest solution - - Size cases on the ACP dies, and then use the ACP expander as well.

Best,
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Old May 20, 2005, 03:48 PM   #10
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I have 8 sets of Hornady dies (.500 s&W, 50AE, 50GI, .44mag, .45 colt, .45acp, 44spec, .454 casull) and they ALL have one thing in common....the sizing die does not size the case down small enough to provide good neck tension. RCBS dies on the other hand do size all of the above cases (except 50GI) down enough to provide very good neck tension. I like Hornady's bullet seating die, but that's it.
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Old May 21, 2005, 10:18 AM   #11
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Johnny Guest > ...selling dies fit only for pre-WWII firearms and true .454" bullets!

Not quite true. Many postwar 45 Colts handguns have been manufactured with .454 throats; SAA clones, Colts, S&Ws and Rugers. My mid 70's era Blackhawk was produced this way.

The mass movement to .452 throats in the 45 Colt is a phenomenon that has really only occurred over the last 20 or 30 years.

Doesn't excuse Hornady, of course. I use RCBS dies.
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Old May 22, 2005, 05:44 AM   #12
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Why I have different brands of dies.......
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Old May 22, 2005, 05:57 AM   #13
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The proper RCBS dies will fix that, I almost guarantee ya.
Matter of fact, my RCBS 9mm sizing die and expanding plug are under spec so much that if you load jacketed it's fine, but when I try to load 9mm lead.... that's when the problems start happenning.
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Old May 22, 2005, 06:04 AM   #14
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Well I appreciate the help, I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

I'm going to call Hornady on Monday and see what they'll do for me.

I bought the dies based on the quality of their other products I have used.


Now my next question is, have any of you guys found a source for jacketed or semi-jacket non-hollowpoint bullets for .45 colt?????
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An old west lawman once said when asked why he carried a .45, "because they don't make a .46"

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Old May 22, 2005, 08:46 AM   #15
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Crimp on 45 Long Colt

My answer is to try a taper crimp.
I do not recommend taking the decapping stim out of a Hornady sizer die. Get another brand of die or a Taper Crimp die for 45 LC.
Readjust the sizer - minus the decapping stim...
A taper crimp is nothing but the sizing of the round after the bullet has been seated.
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Old May 22, 2005, 09:07 AM   #16
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"Now my next question is, have any of you guys found a source for jacketed or semi-jacket non-hollowpoint bullets for .45 colt?????"

Sure, as long as around 230 grains is heavy enough for your wants and needs. Use any bullet made for .45 ACP. But, as MADISON said, you should switch to a taper crimp for them or adjust your roll crimp so that it barely crimps at all. The only problem I can think of for the latter type of crimp would be that the bullet may not be quite as tight as you might need. The heftiness of the load would be a factor in that case (i.e., the effect on bullets in the other chambers creeping in the case a little with each shot).
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Old May 22, 2005, 10:56 AM   #17
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41,

About 20 years ago I stopped even bothering to pick up R-P .45ACP brass I found at the range. The reason was the case mouths were so much thinner than anyone else's and they work-hardened so fast that in only two or three reloadings no sizing die would bring them back enough to hold even a .452 cast bullet. They would spring right back out. I was using Lyman carbide pistol dies at the time.

This is not a consistent thing with Remington. Their 30-06 brass was always just fine and was the nearest commercial equivalent to Lake City military brass in terms of weight and powder capacity that I could find. I have no experience with R-P .45LC brass, but I think the moderator on the Gunmuse forum (www.gunmuse.com) made a comment about their thin pistol case mouth brass recently, so the problem may be on-going. Nickel plated brass will be worse, since they are thinned further in pickling for plating, and the nickel plate has a lower coefficient of friction than 260 brass (cartridge brass, UNS C26000), so bullets will slide against it more easily than plain brass.

In any event, find, buy, or borrow a sample of WW, Starline, Topbrass, or some other make and see if that doesn't fix you right up? WW is sold at Gander Mountain if you have a store near you.

Nick
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Old May 22, 2005, 11:00 AM   #18
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ALl great info here and I agree one other thing

Get a pare of mikes and measure the wall thick ness of the case. I have never shot much or for that matter any nickle casses in the 45 but its one other possibility.
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Old May 22, 2005, 04:43 PM   #19
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gottalotta cases

The R-P 45 Colt case is a mite thinner than the 'others', but that makes it absolutely perfect for working up 'heavies'; them cases are easier to 'read'.

I normally use sizers guaranteed to shrink the case enough to secure the bullet.
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Old May 22, 2005, 08:52 PM   #20
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41 Special > Now my next question is, have any of you guys found a source for jacketed or semi-jacket non-hollowpoint bullets for .45 colt?????

Sierra has a 300gr jacket soft point (#8830) that works well in my guns.

The Hornady XTPs (250 and 300 gr) are hollow points, but in my experience don't behave like hollow points until you push them faster than something on the order of 1150-1200 fps at the muzzle. The 240 XTPMag and 300 XTPMag need even more velocity to act like a hollow point.

-ktw
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Old May 29, 2005, 06:19 PM   #21
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A REDDING Titanium Carbide sizing die will cost a little more, but it can be purchased seperately and if you add the Profile crimp die, I think you'll be glad you did. One .41 man to another!

Hornady uses a Nitride process on what they call their Titanium dies. This is a very similar process that is applied to machine tools and drill bits. It is also subject to wear and everyone is right here. If you are not expanding, it is the resizing die that is the culprit, even if it was intended for .452" and likely, it wasn't. REDDING Titanium Carbide is exactly what is stated. The resizing ring is machined from Titanium Carbide, the hardest carbide in use by reloading tool manufacturers. Guaranteed for life and forget about wear issues and no one holds tolerances on their reloading dies tighter than REDDING!

There, I've done it again, but the extra you pay now, will pay-off in the long term. Kinda like buying a socket set from the truck guys vs. buying them at Wal-Mart!
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Old June 3, 2005, 07:33 PM   #22
41special
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Well I gave Hornady a call and they said they would send me out a new sizing die the 454 Casull die I assume, that should fix it.

Nice company
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An old west lawman once said when asked why he carried a .45, "because they don't make a .46"

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