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Old March 4, 2005, 05:47 PM   #1
9mmsnoopy
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heres a scenario for ya, what would you do?

this just happened here last week, am curious as to what ya'll would do.


your working in a 7-11 type store, your all alone. a jackass comes in and pulls a screwdriver on you and demands the money from the register. you are packing. do you just do what he asks, do you pull your gun on him, do you shoot him?

here in texas you would be well within your rights to shoot his ass, he is robbing you and has threatened you with what could be considered a lethal weapon.

at the very least, i would pull my weapon, and he would be going to jail. i would probably try to avoid shooting him, but if he lunged at me, i would take him out.


pretty stupid to try and rob someone with a screwdriver, knowing that alot of people are packing these days. if he did get shot i wouldnt have any sympathy for him whatsoever.
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:00 PM   #2
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9mmsnoopy

Totally agree with you. Glad I live in Texas too. Where did the inspiration for that scenario come from.

-j
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:08 PM   #3
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Hay Snoopy,

You said he was a jackass. Maybe that's why he was going heeld with a screwdriver? Only kidding!
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:09 PM   #4
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I would do a quick draw and shoot the screwdriver out of his hand. All of this I would do with out aiming, like the movies.
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:13 PM   #5
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I don't know, if the counter is between us I think that I would step back, put my hand on the grip (but not draw yet), and say, "Ya'll don't want to do that" with a poop eating grin on my face.

If nothing else the grin should scare him off .

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Old March 4, 2005, 06:25 PM   #6
JimW
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Here in FLA

I can answer this 1 cause we just covered it in CCW. You would be arrested if you pulled a gun in this situation. Has to be a gun or knife in his hands #1, next you could NOT pull your weapon if you had an escape route to just run from. Before the class, I would agree with you to pull or at least get ready and inform but now it's not worth 5 years or more to pull in this event
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:30 PM   #7
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Really depends on where you live, since laws vary from state to state. I would try to use the counter as a barrier, but I would have my hand on my gun so that if he did make further actions, I would have the option to defend myself. Remember, an attacker with a knife/like weapon (screwdriver) can attack you within 21 feet. As a LEO (not sworn yet, am in academy), I would definatly have a nice sight picture drawn on his chest, but I realize that civilians are in a different situation. Considering that this guy was being threated by a person with a potentially deadly weapon, your actions should be dictated by your local laws, yet another reason to read up before you carry.
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:36 PM   #8
9mmsnoopy
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the inspiration for the tread came from the local newspaper, a store was robbed with a screwdriver last week(he got away).


florida is messed up if indeed you could go to jail for just pulling your gun in a case like that. in texas, that guy could have been shot legally. when exactly CAN you pull your gun in florida?
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:40 PM   #9
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i like what Wayne proposed except i wouldnt want the guy scared off, i would want him going to jail. if i pulled and he ran, i wouldnt shoot in that case, and i probably would quit the job right then and there. he might come back with a gun of his own for a little revenge.
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:42 PM   #10
JimW
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florida is messed up if indeed you could go to jail for just pulling your gun in a case like that. in texas, that guy could have been shot legally. when exactly CAN you pull your gun in florida

Thus see my thread "CCW what a waste". You can ONLY pull your gun when the perpetrator(s) weapon such as a knife or gun only, is already visible and threatening you(too late IMO) and you can't run.
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
You can ONLY pull your gun when the perpetrator(s) weapon such as a knife or gun only, is already visible and threatening you(too late IMO) and you can't run.
While I dont know where you live and maybe by some strange chance the laws in your state specifically say that a person has to be wielding a gun or knife before you can shoot them. That statement is WRONG in most parts of the country. Deadly force comes in many forms and as such if you feel your life is in danger because this guy has just knocked your wife or any person for that mattter,upside the head with a baseball bat for example, is using deadly force and as such you would be clearly authorized to shoot. Best thing I can say to people is read the laws, they are readily available for that reason so use them before you go giving misinformation.
Hey JimW I did figure out you live in Florida after having read one of your other posts, I will take a look and see if the deadly force clause is in the Florida State Law and make another post here when I find it. The concealed carry course you went to seems like maybe it wasnt taught by a very good instructor IMO. I will say that is the shortest CCW class I have heard of. There are a lot of good books and videos out on concealed carry self defense handgunning you may want to check into some as im sure you didnt get very much input from the instructor in such a short amount of time.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:09 PM   #12
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In NYS you draw and give him the choice, if he steps back you allow him, if he steps forward you shoot him. But first you say something cute when you draw like "your screwed"

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Old March 4, 2005, 07:22 PM   #13
Garand Illusion
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Quote:
Thus see my thread "CCW what a waste". You can ONLY pull your gun when the perpetrator(s) weapon such as a knife or gun only, is already visible and threatening you(too late IMO) and you can't run.
Don't worry about what you were taught in the concealed carry course. The point of carrying a weapon for personal defense is to defend your life -- so if you use it, it's because you're afraid of being killed and (as the well used phrase goes) it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 (I'm the one who invented that phrase ).

While I could shoot a person intending bodily harm to me or someone else with any weapon I consider to be lethal in colorado, I wouldn't do it automatically. I'd probably just throw the cash drawer open and back away.

As long as he just wanted the cash I'd let him take it. I'm not going to go in front of a jury or even spend a night talking to the police about why I shot somebody over someone else's $$.

but if he pursues me in any manner or becomes threatening ... I'll use the weapon to defend myself.

That's the kind of situation where you're glad to be armed, though -- because it means that YOU'RE setting the tempo of the encounter, not some punk who think's he's the man because he's willing to get violent and has nothing to lose.

BTW -- in general a jury actually works in your favor. A jury is not really limited by the law. As long as your lawyer can convince them to call you not guilty you're not guilty, whether or not you were pushing the envelope of the letter of the law or not.

For that matter, even if you were breaking the letter of the law, a jury can pronounce you innocent.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
While I could shoot a person intending bodily harm to me or someone else with any weapon I consider to be lethal in colorado, I wouldn't do it automatically. I'd probably just throw the cash drawer open and back away.
Whaaat? While you was packing? Why even carry a gun then? If someone threatens violence you have to assume he'll step it up a notch and carry through if allowed. Don't encourage the criminal element by being permissive!

I didn't say shoot him either, but no way would I give up the cash if he brought a screwdriver to a gunfight. I'd back up alright, but close the drawer and take a grip on the weapon and ask him to move along before he got in over his head. I might try to hold him for the cops but I doubt he would, he'd run and I would not give chase. Observe & report.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:56 PM   #15
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If he has pulled a potentially deadly weapon, and threatned you, and is robbing you, then shoot him. What 'cha gonna do, wait until he has plunged that darn Craftsman Screwdriver 6 inches deep in your chest first? Geez.
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Old March 4, 2005, 08:12 PM   #16
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the one thing i can say for certain in a case like that is that the guy would NOT get a dime, he has a screwdriver, i have a gun. game over.
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Old March 4, 2005, 08:42 PM   #17
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Heh - it's 7-eleven's policy around here that employees can't CCW and they should just give over the money, never make trouble - safer to cooperate. I used to work for them. Carried despite the policy. Never got robbed...

But if this case had happened to me. I'd likely draw the gun and hold it at my thigh in full view of the robber. I'd ask if he still wanted the money. If he said yes, I'd direct him to step back and put it in a sack. I'd then slid it across the counter toward him and step back.

If he had the guts to complete the transaction, then I'd call the police, give a good description, and direction. Then I'd call the manager and quit on the spot, explainning that I'd followed company policy in relationship to thier money and my conscience in relationship to my safety.

THEN I'd go find a better job.
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Old March 4, 2005, 09:12 PM   #18
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yorec,

If that's not the perfect response, I don't know what is...
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Old March 4, 2005, 09:34 PM   #19
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Ouch...

Im glad to see that some one already stated that 7-11 Clerks cant pack...Which, therefore, makes them an excellent target. And the badguys know that...

What I would do?

Well, it it was an action movie, I would give him the money and shoot him in the back of the head as he left, but in real life I would probably open the register and step back as far back from the counter as I could and then draw.
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Old March 4, 2005, 10:13 PM   #20
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I didn't say shoot him either, but no way would I give up the cash if he brought a screwdriver to a gunfight. I'd back up alright, but close the drawer and take a grip on the weapon and ask him to move along before he got in over his head. I might try to hold him for the cops but I doubt he would, he'd run and I would not give chase. Observe & repor


You would be in jail and alot more if you shot him. You MUST either run or step away and let him have the money. Don't forget you will be on camera, and it will show 1. You had a CCW when not supposed to. 2. Shot the man without fleeing or him making an attempt on you. Here in Fla. the only "weapons" that are considered lethal are guns, knives and razors. They don't equate taking a life(scum or not) with stealing money or property--let alone someone else's money(7-11). What do you think the guy with the screwdriver is going to do--throw it at you when you run?
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Old March 4, 2005, 11:05 PM   #21
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Florida Law requires that you may pull you weapon in this instance, but you must try and retreat all the while being very verble, telling the perp to leave drop the screwdriver ECT,ECT,ECT. After you have backed to the wall and the perp comes over the counter then shoot him. If he leaves let him go.

I don't know who gave JimW his instruction but he sucks big time.
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Old March 4, 2005, 11:16 PM   #22
9mmsnoopy
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we dont have 7-11's around here anymore, they were bought out, but if i worked there, regardless of thier policy, i would be packing! that reminds me, several years ago i read about a 7-11 clerk who was robbed, the clerk had a gun and thwarted the robbery(no shots were fired), 7-11 showed thier gratitude for saving thier money by firing him. sounds like a hell of a place to work huh?
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Old March 4, 2005, 11:26 PM   #23
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A similar scenario happened to a very good friend of mine. He went to 7-11 for 3 years picking up a coffee and going to work. 5 days a week. One day he comes in and someone is robbing the 7-11. He took the guy down from behind and disarmed him.

Police came and arrested the robber. He got free coffee for the next year. Because of the sensitive nature of his job, he had to decline press interviews. Oh well.

But to answer your question Snoopy, I would have drawn on the unlucky robber told him to drop his weapon or he goes down. If he crosses the counter he goes down. If he runs then I report him to the police.

If 7-11 fires me for carrying then I go to Starbucks and work where there are cuter girls and better coffee....
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Old March 4, 2005, 11:28 PM   #24
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I'm really surprised by all the responses of giving up the money and the feared outcome if you defended yourself. The state of NY is considered to be a liberal state but here in NY you would not have to back down. You draw and the out come is up to the robber at that point. I'm starting to believe the carry permits in many of the states are useless.

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Old March 4, 2005, 11:36 PM   #25
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i worked at a convenience store for a while, didn't carry but i did have a bat behind the counter. ran through the scenario MANY times in my head. guy gets close enough he gets it upside the head.

if i were carrying, and the guy only had a screwdriver, i would still probably just use the bat. seems like less legal hassle in the long run, in todays 'victim' society you never know.

pulling the gun could, i suppose, get you arrested for brandishing in some jurisdictions.
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