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Old May 11, 2005, 09:25 AM   #1
Doug.38PR
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Did anyone see the video of those policemen railing that SUV with bullets yesterday?

Looked like something from Bonnie and Clyde. And I'm told the guy in the car wasn't even armed. Of course I don't know the whole story of what they saw or what he did but it seemed a little unprofessional to me as far as the way they handled it. Walking up to the car on all four sides spraying it with their high cap autos, the police were lucky they didn't kill each other (I think one of them did get hit but in the vest) and amazingly the perpetrator wasn't killed but wounded a few times.

Anybody have any more info on this incident?
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Old May 11, 2005, 09:32 AM   #2
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Word has it the COP told them all to get rid of the old ammo in their weapons as new Wolf ammo was on the way...
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Old May 11, 2005, 09:39 AM   #3
Doug.38PR
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LOL! That's good.
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Old May 11, 2005, 09:49 AM   #4
ATW525
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Linky to story
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Old May 11, 2005, 11:00 AM   #5
mete
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10 cops, 120 rounds , that's not excessive. The one cop motioned to the cameraman to move away ,gesturing with gun in hand !! A lucky cameraman.
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Old May 11, 2005, 11:02 AM   #6
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Ya, that cop waving his gun at the cameraman was being an idiot, and those officers put themselves in a pretty nice crossfire.
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Old May 11, 2005, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
and amazingly the perpetrator wasn't killed but wounded a few times
They missed. whats so amazing about that?
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:19 PM   #8
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If the marksmanship of these ten officers is indicative of real world shootings, then I'm afraid I need to invest in a tactical vest to carry spare mags for my CCW. An average of one hit every 30 rounds is going to require alot of spare mags.
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:30 PM   #9
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I would point out that few, if any, of these officers recieved anything type of training in the finer points of combat shooting. You can see them just standing there emptying their pistols at the target instead of seeking cover or shooting on the move. This is indicative of square-range practice and qualifications.

Also note that there seems to be a lot of sympathetic shooting, and I'm sure these guys were scared or uncertain of exactly what was threatening them. More likely, one cop thought he saw a gun or was in jeopardy and opened fire. The other cops heard the first guy open up and engaged similarly.

I've seen this happen many times in shooting drills. And it just goes to prove that you cannot have enough practice/training and you cannot stress too highly the importance of being capable with your pistol. Yea, you might not use you pistol but one time in a twenty-year career, but that one time you do need it....you're really going to need it. There is no second place winner.
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:30 PM   #10
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"If the marksmanship of these ten officers is indicative of real world shootings, then I'm afraid I need to invest in a tactical vest to carry spare mags for my CCW. An average of one hit every 30 rounds is going to require alot of spare mags."

Nah, it all depends on what your "mission" is. If you are a civilian, and all you are trying to do is get out of a "tight spot", it isn't necessary to actually get hits -- just cover yourself enough to get out of trouble. But yes, it is entirely possible to have a 1 in 30 hit ratio when engaging in "spray and pray" shooting. Since I'm a civilian and as such I'm not intending on going on the offensive, I figure that my 15 rounds on hand will be enough to keep the BG's head(s) down long enough for me to beat a retreat, and if the range is close enough having all those rounds won't help me, anyway -- it'll all be over long before that, one way or the other.
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:30 PM   #11
cuate
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Police Video

I suffered through the video on two or three newscasts. My thoughts:

The actor refused to stop for a LEO, unknown at the instant whether he was armed. I do not recall if he rammed a Police car or put a LEO in danger of death or injury. He did have a record for drugs, they possibly knew this at the time of shooting at him.

The actions of the Police involved was something like the gunfight at the OK Corral. Paniky and unprofessional. They seem to lack proper training for such incidents.

There is no lack of these idiots that run from the Police and endanger others, the Police, and themselves. Except in residential areas I wish they could use RPGs, read that rocket propelled grenades to permanently remove those idiots from our roadways. It ain't going to happen.

The officials will knuckle under to the media and others, the Cops will be fired, the guilty SOB will sue and it will be another Rodney King like ending.
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:34 PM   #12
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I'm scheduled to go on jury duty in Compton on the 13th of June...don't know if I want to be anywhere near that city!

Figured they averaged .033% on their shooting...figured the suspect was crouched under the dash of the car, probably the safest place to be with the idioits spraying and praying!

Don't feel so underarmed with my 357. at least I know I can hit what I'm shooting at with the 6 rounds I have!
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:37 PM   #13
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On the bright side, if you can call it that... only 0.86% of thier stray rounds actually hit somebody, and he was wearing a vest. Of course I bet they're wishing that one of those strays had hit the camera right about now.
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Old May 11, 2005, 12:44 PM   #14
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The video of this incident was particularly striking. It looked like the cops just opened fire for no reason at all. Maybe one of them saw something in the car that looked like a weapon, but even that shouldn't have provoked the response it did. They kept firing long after it was clear that the guy in the car was not a threat to them. The car was absolutely riddled with bullet holes in the doors, fenders, and windshield. It looked like something from a Bonnie and Clyde movie.

Compton is one of the most crime-ridden areas of LA, but even so, this type of response to someone fleeing from the police is ridiculous. I would expect the ten cops involved to have to answer some very serious questions and at least a few of them to be disciplined and/or lose their jobs over this.
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Old May 11, 2005, 01:02 PM   #15
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I find it amazing that any of you can call a suspect driving a 3-4000lb vehicle as "unarmed".

I'd rather be shot than dragged to death.
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Old May 11, 2005, 01:05 PM   #16
Ben Swenson
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I've heard elsewhere people suggesting the police should have been better prepared with shotguns and slugs or perhaps AR-15s. I respectfully suggest that considering the circular crossfire they were employing, any increase in either caliber or capacity would be an extremely bad thing.
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Old May 11, 2005, 01:05 PM   #17
chris in va
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Unbelieveable.

If that was around here, every one of those cops would be fired and several lawsuits filed against the department. All those stray rounds hitting houses... :barf:
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Old May 11, 2005, 02:17 PM   #18
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That was sad and pathetic, how un-professional. I am not surprised however having many friends and aquaintences in law enforcement. Most hardly ever shoot, just to qualify, don't even like guns per se, and what they know about firearms you can fit in a thimble. The anti-gunners are gonna just love this video.
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Old May 11, 2005, 03:27 PM   #19
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Bad guy in custody in gang country, nobody else seriously hurt. Looks like a good shooting to me.
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Old May 11, 2005, 03:36 PM   #20
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Well, assuming that they reasonably believed at the time that deadly force was required, I would have to agree that it's a good shooting. The number of rounds fired and the horrible circular firing squad tactics don't change that. I certainly would hope, though, that the internal investigation prompts measures to correct what went wrong, since it could have potentially been a disaster.
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Old May 11, 2005, 03:57 PM   #21
gb_in_ga
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Other than the horrid tactics, I really can't fault them that much. It is easy being armchair quarterbacks with 20/20 hindsight, seeing things from the camera's viewpoint. Now, that circular shootout? Duh, what were they thinking? That the bullets would just magically stop as they passed by the BG? Number of shots fired doesn't really affect the quality of the shoot, there's other tactical reasons to shoot rather than aimed fire directed at the BG -- the concept of suppressive intimidation fire is quite well known and defendable. Either the shoot was justified, or it wasn't -- the number of shots fired is just a statistic.
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Old May 11, 2005, 04:30 PM   #22
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I just love all the negative feelings towards cops.
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Old May 11, 2005, 04:48 PM   #23
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I just love all the negative feelings towards cops.
I don't care that they are cops. Anytime 10 guys shoot up the area, they better have a MUCH better reason than I have yet heard about in this case.

Simple plain dumb luck that one of the officers or an innocent civilian is not dead -- those officers involved in this need to get down on their knees and give thanks for that. They basically forgot and/or ignored all of their firearms training, if they ever had any.

Got to stop now, too wound up -- will start saying bad things.
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Old May 11, 2005, 04:54 PM   #24
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I just love all the negative feelings towards cops.
Likewise, I just love some of the feelings here and elsewhere that cops are perfect and anything they do is right and justified. Cops are not perfect, just like anyone else. When they do something wrong, they should be called on it rather than have it swept under the rug. If the investigation shows that these cops were not justified in shooting, then they should be disciplined or fired. I just don't see how anything justifies the cop's reaction in this case. The guy in the car was unarmed--what made the cops believe they needed to open fire on him?
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Old May 11, 2005, 05:26 PM   #25
ebd10
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Quote-"The guy in the car was unarmed--what made the cops believe they needed to open fire on him?"

The perp allegedly tried to run down a cop. So instead of getting out of the way, the cop takes the shot. His compatriots, hearing the shot begin shooting "back". The result is what you saw in the video. At least 1 journalist has done some analysis about these types of shooting.

http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/f...arws082301.htm
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