The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 28, 2005, 03:05 PM   #1
Duxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,294
Rampaging Animal Part 2

Ohio officials are considering whether to bring criminal charges against Bears' tight end Darnell Saners, whose dogs attacked and killed an 82 year-old man earlier this month. The Chicago Sun-Times reports that the deceased man was watering his plants in his backyard when he was attacked by Sanders' pit bull, American bulldog, and another dog. Police have already charged a woman whom Sanders left the dogs with while he attended the Bears' offseason conditioning program. "It's a shame that it happened," Sanders' agent Richard Katz told the Sun-Times. "Darnell feels awful bad."

The above is a true story. So the question is: You are in your front yard or back yard - enjoying the day (or watering plants if you wish), and your neighbor's door pops open and 3 dogs come charging at you (in a threatening manner - no leashes). Assuming the backstop is clear (no civilians behind the dogs) and you are carrying your regular concealed carry weapon.

Gentlemen your thoughts?
Duxman is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 03:16 PM   #2
Twycross
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,187
Fire a warning shot at their feet, and if they keep coming, take them out, closest first. This is assuming that these are strange dogs, or ones which have a history of offences (since these are your neighbor's dogs, you ought to know something about them).
__________________
The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming.
- Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)
Twycross is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 03:31 PM   #3
Trip20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: WI
Posts: 2,181
Head between legs, smooch hiney bye bye.

Something similar happened to me when I was bout 11-12 yrs old. Walking to the local 7-11 to get a slurpy on a hot summer day in Glen Burnie, Maryland.

3 of us kids, walking on the sidewalk and we're approaching the end of the block which, on the corner, sits a house with a chainlink fence, & hedge the same height. (picture a residential intersection).

We heard a little snarling... it got louder, and louder... we started to walk fast, it got louder and now we heard more than one snarling monster it seemed...

We then realized that the dog(s) were not going to stop when they reached the fence line...

All of the sudden the 3 of us are in a sprint, glancing back to see 2 large dogs (Husky, and a German Shepherd) and one smaller dog (their offspring) - COMPLETELY leap the fence/hedge and I nearly dropped my bowels.

The dogs were extremely fast. I myself, because it was summer, had my shoes just slipped on, not tied, and as soon as I put the afterburners on, the shoes stayed where I stomped them to the ground. So now I'm running bare-foot!

I'm going, going going.... then all of the suddend I felt what I interrpreted as a wet snout touch the back of my heal, and I was able to find some sort of hidden afterburner which let me gain a few feet. I ended up having to dive into the back of some contractors pickup truck (full of nails and screws, bolts...etc). This didn't feel so good as you can imagine.

The dog (and I thank God to this day) for some reason stopped at the tailgain with it's paws resting on top and just barked and snarled at me. I picked up a chunk of 2x4 and wacked it as hard as I could on the snout. It got ****** off and started to climb and REALLY snarl now so I wacked it again (not as hard this time) and it ran off towards where the other two dogs were in pursuit of my friends. I ran up to the nearest house and started pounding on the door - no one answered.

I proceeded to find my way to 7-11 by means of running parallels down other streets. My 2 buddies were soon after me.

3 dogs coming after you unexpectedly such as my story, or yours is not a good situation. Even if you are able to get a round or two off... the chances of you putting all 3 dogs down in a few split seconds is not very likely... and what do dogs do when they attack, they jump up towards our throats usually, and we put our arm out and they end up clamping onto our forearm. Now how are you going to aim to shoot the other dogs?
Trip20 is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 04:56 PM   #4
plateshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 1999
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 522
No warning shot from me. I doubt dogs know what a warning shot is. If it is attacking me, I will do what ever I can to kill it, especially if I am in my yard.
__________________
Make a hole
plateshooter is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 05:02 PM   #5
Bullrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,624
Your post is a no brainer, I'm shooting!
Bullrock is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 05:06 PM   #6
brett23
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 82
I won't retell the story as it is a long one and is in a past post but I had the unfortunate circumstance to have to kill a neighbors one of two chows that had attacked my Boston terrier on my property and then proceeded to go for my sister. Needless to say the neighbor wasn't happy but I was found "in the right" by the local law enforcement so end of story.
brett23 is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 05:36 PM   #7
redhawk41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2005
Location: Red Desert
Posts: 752
carry a knife that is easily deployable with both hands for the grappler types ...

like dogs if they get on ya

shoot while there is still distance
__________________
{thought cloud}
redhawk41 is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 07:11 PM   #8
Topthis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Posts: 857
Well, since I am Korean (born in the States though, a long time ago)...I would smile, due to the fact that breakfast, lunch and dinner has just dropped in....LOL!!!
Seriously...Big dogs, snarling, drooling and showing FANG??? I am throwin' lead as fast as I can, those that get through to me...I'm throwin' some Jackie Chan, Hidden Dragon and some Crouching Tiger!! Then...of course...it's BBQ time!!!!!
Topthis is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 07:17 PM   #9
Trip20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2005
Location: WI
Posts: 2,181
Lmfao!!!

Trip20 is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 07:28 PM   #10
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,564
I'm with Bullrock on this one.

Dog comes after me, . . . I might attempt some "up on the top of the truck" maneuver.

Two dogs come after me, . . . might get one round in front of them just in case they ever did have any manners and wanted to remember them real quick.

Three or more headed like I am lunch, . . . start dropping dogs and hope you don't run out of ammo before you run out of dogs.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 07:57 PM   #11
molonlabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 296
Topthis.

I'm still cracking up.

50 ways to wok your dog?
__________________
The United States Constitution
© 1791. All Rights Reserved.


I Don't want you in here period...Patricia Konie NOLA 2005
molonlabe is offline  
Old April 28, 2005, 08:08 PM   #12
USP45usp
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2000
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 3,428
I would fire to kill, even if the backstop wasn't clear (I'm under the assumtion that I would be firing toward the door that the dogs came out of and in my mind, the person that released them is just as guilty as the dogs who wish to kill me).

As for Darnell, if he knew that his dogs were vicious or capable of doing such a thing, he failed to either tell the sitter about it or did but really didn't enforce the fact, then yes, he should be charged. If nothing else but assesory to murder, since they were his dogs.

If they refuse to charge then the family should have nothing to want for until they die because I would have his past, present, and future checks going into my account.

Dogs, like guns (and cars, and knives, and baseball bats), have a responsibility that comes with owning them. If you loan your gun, your car, your knife or your baseball bat to another and they do something with it then you should be charged if you had any inkling what that person may do with it (other then it's intended purpose). And if you fail to mention anything that may be needed (like if your friend borrows your car and you just happen to fail to mention that the brakes are going bad, or that the throttle sticks, and they end up killing someone) then you are the guilty one.

Wayne
USP45usp is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 12:40 PM   #13
Duxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,294
Thanks as usual for the great insight and experience guys. Depending on distance, I guess I would have to open up if I was in immediate danger from 3 dogs.

By the time the warning shot hits the ground, they would probably be all over me otherwise.
Duxman is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 04:50 PM   #14
panzer426
Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2005
Posts: 78
first let me start off by saying that I have a 100 pound german shepherd who is extremely well trained, and therefore if my door comes open he doesnt leave my side. if he runs out into the yard, even if hes 100 yards away and in a dead charge towards someone, I give the command to heel, sit, lay down and he will do it without question. and in my opinion no matter what the breed, if you dont have that level of control over your dog it should never be off leash outside your house, or fenced yard.
that said I would pose the question, can any of you tell the difference between a happy dog charging towards you to be petted, and a dog charging to attack you?
for me its a double answer...if my dog is charging towards you and you shoot him, or anywhere near him I will return fire and not miss. on the other hand if my dog is charging towards you I would be extremely ****** at my dog, and not blame you for taking a shot. luckily I know my dog, I know his reactions to different situations, and I know how to read his body language. I've spent more time training him than most of you have spent firing your guns. and that training will continue throughout his life. if your doubting me on the amount of time, I soend a minimum of 3 hours a day every day training him. he has been tested with trains passing by 10 feet away, hes been tested in crowds, hes been tested with starter pistols, and under extreme stress just to name a few situation. he hasnt once disobeyed and if he ever does his leash goes on and he doesnt go off leash for atleast 2 days.
bit off topic but, to get back on track... I'd say if my neighbours dogs are charging at me, and I have a firearm on me, the dog is getting shot.
and I garauntee that 99.9% of dogs would turn tail and run if you gave them a warning shot. firearms are a hobby, training dogs is my life.
panzer426 is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 05:30 PM   #15
Bullrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,624
panzer426

I understand what your saying, but it is different than the original posting. I'm still shooting!

I've had dogs all my life. My Westie pup is laying beside me as I write. Guns are not my hobby. While I enjoy shooting, I keep, and carry them for personal, family, and home defense. I shoot trap, and that's a hobby, but you won't find me carrying my trap gun away from the fireing line.

3 dogs charging at me, I clear leather, and hope I don't run out of ammo, before I run out of dogs... Well said Dwight55!!!
Bullrock is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 06:17 PM   #16
Topthis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Posts: 857
I'm still lookin' at em as a Free Meal!! LOL
Topthis is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 07:17 PM   #17
ADBF
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 41
Look at my Forum "tag." ADBF stands for A Dogs Best Friend, I kid you not. My wife and I have six and we love 'em all. They're like our kids and buddies all rolled into one. Obviously I love dogs.

Having said that, I know that some dogs are extremely dangerous. It's just their nature to be very territorial or just plain mean, like some people. There are many cases where people are unfortunately killed or maimed by poorly trained or improperly trained dogs. So, if I'm ever charged by two or three very angry looking, seriously attack motivated dogs and I'm armed, guess who's getting shot? Unless it's like a miniature Dachshund or something, then I'll just laugh and try to shake him off my pant leg.
ADBF is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 07:27 PM   #18
MassHunter2190
Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2005
Posts: 82
I agree comletely with ADBF. Except I only have 3 dogs...well...4 right now, fostering for the local shelter. (we literaly always are)
MassHunter2190 is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 07:47 PM   #19
ADBF
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 41
Panzer asked if any of us can tell the difference between a dog running up to you to be petted and say hello, and a dog charging you to attack, basically. Sure. A dogs' intent is literally written all over it's face. More so than even a human being, because with a dog there is no subterfuge whatsoever. A human being might smile at you while he's pulling out a knife to stick it in ya. Not a dog. If his intent is harm, he will have a very nasty look on his face. If he's charging you with brow "scrunched," teeth bared, ears laid flat, hackles raised,... you're in big trouble. If he's got his eyes wide, big "grin" on his face, tounge hanging out and tail awaggin' he wants to be buddies. The worst you have to fear is paw prints on your nice white shirt. But, please don't shoot him for it!
ADBF is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 07:50 PM   #20
ADBF
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 41
Masshunter, We've tried the fostering thing a couple of times, but we just end up keeping them. We grow too attached and can't give 'em up. Two of our six are from the local shelter.
ADBF is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 08:15 PM   #21
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,309
Dogs. My current (and only) family stands at 33" and weighs in at just under 200 pounds. An English Mastiff. All of my past dogs were German Shepherds, but they're high energy dogs that need a lot of physical exercise and mental stimulation to be happy. And I'm not getting any younger, so I opted for a couch potato. I encounter a lot of dogs while on calls, but I worry more about the little guys biting than I do the big ones. The last thing I want to do is shoot a dog, but I've had to on several occasions. The one time that stands out were the two pit bulls that belonged to a well known crack dealer. He used them to protect his merchandise, and he beat them & encouraged aggression until not even he could approach them. One day they got out and went on a killing spree. No kids, thank God, but they literally tore apart five family pets before we caught up to them. We hit one from a cruiser with several rounds of 9mm Ranger, and it actually attacked the cruiser and was biting the tires before another shot ended it. The other dog we took out with a round of 00 buck. I felt very badly about having to do it, but it was necessary. I don't blame the dogs; I blame their low life piece of sh** owner. Sometimes, you just gotta do what you gotta do, dog fancier or not.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 08:28 PM   #22
S.E.R.T.SGT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2005
Posts: 236
Now I am not shooting these dogs if their like a 100 yards away and closing, but if they get in my yard, and they appear they are about to attack (i.e. I'm in fear of life and or great bodily injury.)..them 3 dead dogs. Sorry but better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 as the saying goes. I'll worry about the legal repurcussions later.
__________________
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lighting they
Do not go gently into that good night.

Dylan Thomas


S.E.R.T.SGT
S.E.R.T.SGT is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 08:29 PM   #23
ADBF
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 41
Capt. C, I agree. More often than not a bad dog is the fault of a stupid or careless owner. A dog is molded into the nice, friendly, tail wagging chum that he is. Or he's molded into the nasty, snarling, teeth baring biter that causes problems for everybody. Too bad for the dogs, huh?
ADBF is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 08:39 PM   #24
yorec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2000
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,324
My father has a neighbor who used to have three dogs that'd do something like this... Actually had my gun out and pointed at one once when it got out under the fence and surprised me once when visiting. Stopped and backed of as soon as I noticed the movement out of the corner of my eye and swung around to face him, already drawing. Was still fifteen feet away - had he not reversed motion...
A quick phone call and neighbor recaptured and reconfined him. He had to get rid of all three of them a little later - mauled one of his kids... :barf:

As much as I detest it and try to get rid of it, there is not one ounce of fat on my body that doesn't overvalue every inch of every dog in the universe and I'll shoot to defend said fat everytime, even if the odds are three to one. (greater numbers just mean I feel threatened at a greater distance.)
__________________
What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

My site - stop by n see what I'm all about... Yes, there is gun stuff.
yorec is offline  
Old April 29, 2005, 10:20 PM   #25
faraway
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2001
Location: ne montana
Posts: 437
Obviously a mutt driven crazed by some hypermacho jerk, or as a psychotic barrier for the local drug dealer is another matter.

However, it appears that few on this thread are aware of the new miracle tool...it's called a stick. Might consider thinking of lesser alternatives before hauling out the trusty hoglegs. Not every mutt, is some heretofore unknown spawn of Cerebus. And in general, dogs can usually be bluffed or whacked easily enough...and usually the incident ends at that point.

It would seem some of the places in which some of the posters on this thread, reside, must be very, very, noisy. How does anybody get any rest with the echoing sounds of seemingly constant gunfire, and yelping dogs?

Now can we start a thread about the dangers of free roaming cattle...
or maybe sandhill cranes, have you seen the beaks on those feathered flying rapiers....
faraway is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14208 seconds with 7 queries