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Old April 12, 2005, 11:10 AM   #1
Sturm
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Best Load Combination for 150 gr. 30-30

748 or H335? Sierra, SPEER, or Remington and Winchester bulk bullets? Is Re-7 worth a try? These loads will be for ranges up to 150 yards on Whitetail. Gun is a Winchester 94 AE with a 20" barrel my shooting partner bought at a gunshow Saturday and I will be loading for him. 130 grainers may also be in the mix and 170's for pigs, so any thoughts on the best powders and bullets are welcome!

We Don't Rent Pigs!

Last edited by Sturm; April 12, 2005 at 01:00 PM.
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Old April 12, 2005, 07:47 PM   #2
Rodger Peterson
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I use 30-30 for truck gun and have taken rabbits, coyotes, and Mule Deer for years with it. I load slightly less than max of 748 and it has never let me down. I believe there is no better powder for 30-30. I have used Sierra, Hornady, and Win bulks, and all perform well. Best is Sierra, can cover groups of 5 with a fifty cent piece at a 150 Yards. Hornady comes real close, at a 100 yds performance is the same as Sierra, but at 150 Hornady seems to open up a wee bit. Win bulks at a 100 yards open up to maybe 3" diameter and never tried more distance on a target. But have used Win bulks on long range on Coyote and he was dead when I got to him. Great cartridge and rifle, will do it's job if you do. These are results from my gun, open sights, and my poor eyesight, but I suspect results from yours will be similar. I have already experimented with bullets, so now I usually order bulk Win bullets for price as they get the job done. If you want to try targets try the Sierra's.
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Old April 12, 2005, 07:51 PM   #3
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Forgot, bullets I mentioned in my reply are all 150 grain, flat or round nose.
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Old April 12, 2005, 08:00 PM   #4
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Since I am on a roll here, I will mention one more bit of my biased opinion. A couple of years ago I ordered a couple of sights from One Ragged Hole after seeing them in one of the rags. One for a Ruger blackhawk and one for my Win 94.The one for the Ruger came of fas fast as I put it on, as it was junk. But the one on the 94 is still there and that sight made that rifle a great shooter.
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Old April 12, 2005, 10:10 PM   #5
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Thanks Rodger! Were the sights from One Ragged Hole, aperture sights?

Last edited by Sturm; April 13, 2005 at 09:40 AM.
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Old April 13, 2005, 02:18 PM   #6
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W748 and the 30-30 were made for each other. I like the Hornady or Winchester bullet. Both shoot very good. When you could get the old Win Silvertip I used to load those..never a more accurate bullet in 30-30...IMHO
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Old April 13, 2005, 09:47 PM   #7
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Yes Sturm, aperture or I refer to it as a peep sight.
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Old April 14, 2005, 10:28 AM   #8
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Thanks Guys!
I have been looking at several load combinations and 748 always seems to be the powder. H335 does real well for velocity, but the test results favor 748 for accuracy. There is one more powder that I have some interest in and that would be Varget. I know it's on the slow side for 30-30, but it seems to have potential also. Where I live, temperatures don't get cold enough to worry about using ball powders, but since Varget is a small extruded powder, I thought it might have some merit as a year round powder. Temperatures will be very warm here soon, so load development will probably take place in the heat of the summer, which will also cover a year round load as well, so 748 will definitely get used. Thanks again!
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Old April 17, 2005, 08:20 PM   #9
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I use 748 with Speer or Hornady. The bullet depends on the rifle, as some prefer one over the other. I load 34.5 grains with a 150 gr bullet and CCI-250 magnum primer.
170 grain bullet gets 32.0 grains of 748 with a CCI-250 primer. Both are out of Speer's #11 manual and work very well. The Speer manual actually has 748 being slightly more velocity than H335.
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Old April 17, 2005, 10:52 PM   #10
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Good point Dogjaw, The Lyman 46 shows data for 748 and H335 with standard large rifle primers and I have the SPEER #11 also and as you know all the Winchester and Hodgdon Ball powder loads were developed with magnum primers so I was going to ask if they are really necessary? Another powder I am interested in other than Varget is Ramshot Tac, which is just after 335 on their burn rate chart and is a ball powder also, supposedly without temperature sensitivity issues. Thanks for all the help!
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Old April 18, 2005, 10:56 PM   #11
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Sturm, I dont use mag primers for 748 or 760, although I reference Speer manual mostly. I never understood why they use them. Here is my testing for my most accurate, and favorite load. Straight from my PC notebook. Velocity is a bit low, but recovered bullets expanded wonderfully.

This load works in my gun not yours. you could blow yourself and your gun up. ect.

30-30 Winchester

Case Remmington
Primer WLR
Powder 748 33.5 Grains
Bullet Sierra Flat Nose 150 Grain #2000
Over all length 2.535
5/8 turn on crimp die

Be Very Careful To Start Bullet Straight As Not To Mangle Shoulder!

Note: This is a great combo, very accurate, primers and cases looked great after firing. Don’t mess with this load. Rifle sighted in for this load.

Chronograph Results Winchester Mod 94AE

50 Degrees
1. 2011 fps
2. 2040 fps
3. 2028 fps
4. 2030 fps
5. 2028 fps

2028 fps Average
28.83 Extreme Spread
10.44 Standard Deviation
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Old April 19, 2005, 11:50 AM   #12
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Thanks for all the help Rodger! I take it that this is the 50 cent piece load. I will give it a try. I think we will also shoot some Oregon Trail hard cast also. Have you tried their 30-30 gas check with 748? I will probably load it near minimum powder charge. This is going to be my partners truck gun also. Thanks again Sir.
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Old April 21, 2005, 05:13 PM   #13
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I use the Remington 150 bullets and H335. Lyman aperture sights on a Win. 94.

Shoots about 2 1/2-3 inches at a hundred.

In the past, I've also had excellent results with H322 and IMR 4064.

In 170 grain bullets, my best results were with the Hornadys and IMR 4064.

H322 and 170 cast linotype bullets at about 1500-1700 FPS make great plinkling loads in the .30-30.
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Old April 21, 2005, 09:39 PM   #14
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Thanks cheygriz!
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Old April 22, 2005, 01:11 AM   #15
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There ain't a dime's worth of difference between H-335 and WW 748. They were the same powder with different labels at one time and may still be.
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Old April 22, 2005, 08:28 AM   #16
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Yea, and with a little testing, you can throw in the CHEAP surps like WC844, AA2230-C, and the one I haven't tested yet (maybe this weekend) Data Powder 73. The latter two are available from Powder Valley for $65 and $50 per 8# jug. No reason to pay canister price when this other stuff does the same thing. Already used 2230-C in .308 with a Nos 125 BT and it performs quite well. Also loaded some '06 with same for an M1 (per Accurate's M1 data) and it functions well also with 168s.

Castpics has some 30-30 and .32 Win Spl data using WC844. Just have to be careful with lot numbers using the surps - start low and work up, but they work fine. Chrono is very helpful. Did I mention CHEAP? sundog

http://www.castpics.net/RandD/load_data/load_data.htm
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Old April 24, 2005, 01:24 PM   #17
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Thanks for the link Sundog! I will probably use the Oregon Trail bullet for cast loads though.

LeftoverDJ, this is exactly why I consult burn rate charts, pressure curves and load data. 748 and 335 may have been close to the same in the past, but saying they are the same is a misconception. Primex makes both powders, but to the slightly different spec's from Winchester and Hodgdon. They are from the same base chemistry, but 335 is slightly slower than 748. Some reloaders state that HP-38 and W-231 are the same. Same can be said for W-540 and HS-6, but I ain't buying it, not even for a dime! If they were even close to identical they would show up back-to-back on the burn rate chart. The only two that do are H-380 and W-760 and they are not the same exact powder. The only identical powder that Primex makes or made for two different companies is the former WAP and the presesnt Western Powder Co. (Ramshot) Silhouette. They are identical in every respect and load data is completely interchangeable. Is this the case for W-748 and H-335?

Thanks to everyone for the input. W-748 will get the nod for now with the Sierra 150 gr. JFP and the Remington 150 gr. Core-Lokt!
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Old April 25, 2005, 06:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Good point Dogjaw, The Lyman 46 shows data for 748 and H335 with standard large rifle primers and I have the SPEER #11 also and as you know all the Winchester and Hodgdon Ball powder loads were developed with magnum primers so I was going to ask if they are really necessary? Another powder I am interested in other than Varget is Ramshot Tac, which is just after 335 on their burn rate chart and is a ball powder also, supposedly without temperature sensitivity issues. Thanks for all the help!
I've always used CCI magnum primers with 748 powder in the 30-30 per the Speer manual. I've had groups as tight as 1" with a 4 power scope at 100 yards using this load. I'm not about to mess with what works.
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Old April 25, 2005, 11:03 PM   #19
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Well, looks like a couple of you are getting outstanding accuracy with either primer. 2230-C has caught my attention before, but as I say, this ammo will be for my partners 94 AE, so we'll probably load up, one cannister at a time until we hit, what do they call it? Nirvana and go to the 8lb'rs. Gonna start off with 150gr. Core-Lokts, Sierra's and Oregon Trail's gas-check. I'm gonna keep checking out Ramshot Tac. This is a very progressive powder co. I have head several conversations with their ballistician and last time I called I S-T-S with the president. Now they own Accurate and are postured to get better distribution of their powders. Man this is totally off topic, but they have a ball powder with a very similar burn to Relaoder 19 and it is supposed to be extremely temperature insensitive. All but Competition and Silhoutte (Primex) come from Belgium and some of their powders may prove to be competitve with Vihta Vuori at an Accurate price. Lets keep our fingers crossed. Back to topic, I'm probably going to go with start charges of 748 from the Lyman 46, until we decide the merits of the cast load and maybe get a bit more specific powder. Something says try Reloader 7, who knows. I wish I had some data for Reloader 10X and maybe Alliant will have some soon, looks to be in a burn rate where it might serve a lot of areas. Anyway Guys, I really appreciate you input!
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Old April 28, 2005, 10:19 PM   #20
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Update

All the goodies came in today. REDDING FL die set, Remington Brass and Bullets and we decided to try the 125 gr. Sierra's just for kicks. Anybody got a tackdriving handload for the Sierra 125 (can it be done?), Rem case, WLRP and 748 that's low enough below maximum to go ahead and load?
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Old April 28, 2005, 10:44 PM   #21
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I have no experience with the 125 grain. But I'd guess it will shoot flat. Bet it will be a good varmint round. My Sierra book says the following:

These Loads can kill you and blow you up. ect.

748 powder 125 grain

Start 33.5 @ 2200 fps
34..9 @2300 fps
36.3 @ 2400 fps
Max 37.6 @ 2500 fps

I must say each time I have compared my chrono data to Sierra's charts they seem very optimistic. Since 748 is a bit temp sensitive, I'd keep em on the slow end, as summer is coming. Not knocking 748, I think it is best for 30-30.
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Old April 29, 2005, 12:17 AM   #22
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Thanks for coming through again!

Thanks Rodger, I think my shootin' partners thinking was varmint and defense oriented with the 125 gr. Sierra. Worst case scenario, I would have used data for the 130 gr. SPEER from their manual and now I don't have to! I'm surprised that My Lyman 46 doesn't have a load for the 125 Sierra, guess it wasn't around then, I can't remember that far back. I do agree that Sierra seems to be a little different as far as ballistics and I have never bothered buying their load manual. Will be loading up and heading for the range tomorrow!
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Old April 30, 2005, 04:56 PM   #23
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Loaded 20 rounds last night. New Remington cases, WLRP, 125 gr. Sierra's with 35.0 grs of 748, OAL 2.425". For reloading a truck gun we kicked dies around quite a bit because I like REDDING's for anything, but thought most would be fine for this application. Man I just had to mention how excellent the REDDING FL .30-30 set is. Using their set-up recommendation for multiple rifles to start, I slightly buckled a case neck from the crimp ring being set a little deep on the first round. Corrected it and what a bunch of beautiful handloads. After we try various weights I will start reloading to get the best headspace for just this one rifle, so all I was really trying to do was create some factory type loads with a lowered powder charge. When I start accuracy loading for that gun, I am very excited about the possibilities. Glad we didn't scimp on the cost of dies because of the general purpose nature of this gun. Yes, I am a very loyal REDDING customer and have found 0 reason not to be!
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Old April 30, 2005, 10:56 PM   #24
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Redding is good stuff. I think you'll be surprised how addicting and fun to shoot the rifle is. I still grin when I lay it on the hood and sqeeze the trigger. Makes me think of my grandad.
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Old May 1, 2005, 12:37 AM   #25
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We went out and shot them after I posted, Rodger and I didn't expect outstanding accuracy with the 125's and no big surprises. They were decent though and I will probably only tinker with pressure just enough to find the best accuracy with this bullet. Will chronograph later when accuracy arrives and with the 150's. Next outing, I will have 150's ready along with more of the 125's and hopefully the 170 gr. OT GC's that got backordered will show up. At least for now, we have enough fireformed once fired to start reloading for the chamber and I will probably load the 125's again with 35.0 grs. of 748 to compare to the loads I made with new brass. I'm not in much hurry to use the OT cast bullets with gas checks until I get more of the new brass broke in and have 80 to go! Probably have around 60 once fired cases now though. Had a pretty good day shooting and took my SKS and fired the best group I have ever gotten. Five rounds into 1.16" at 50 yards opensighted using, of all things, Wolf FMJ! Did close to the same later with the HP, so I was relieved because I only had the five rounds of FMJ. I hope it doesn't get much more addicting. I kind of brokered the deal on the 94 AE for my partner. Got it used and it looked to be unfired for $200. Knowing my luck, the urge will get bad before we get another gunshow and I'll end up at wally world! Thanks to everyone again, it's been a blast!
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