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Old May 5, 2005, 05:08 PM   #1
MEDDAC19
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No carry zones

How do all of you who say that you carry 99% of the time handle situations where signs read No Weapons. You go somewhere and there is a sign that spells out.... No Alcohol/No Weapons.....Do you go in and keep everything concealed or give up your weapon? It seems like everywhere you go now they have signs forbidding weapons. Concerts, sporting events, pow-wows, flea markets, parks, schools. Are your CC permits good for these types of situations or is it different in each state? I know some places make sense like courthouses and bars, but what about the others? If they let teachers with CC permits carry some situations in the recent past would have been prevented or at least they wouldn't have been as bad. I know carrying a weapon is a responsibility but does that include not attending many venues, or knowing ahead of the time that you may end up in one of these no gun zones?
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Old May 5, 2005, 05:25 PM   #2
BreacherUp!
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Even though I carry as part of my job, the places where it is illegal I do not carry (court), obviously. However there are some bar/restaraunts where there is a sign for no weapons, but I carry anyway (it is my job, I say). The 6 flags up north has gun lockers in the security office. I don't think it is a good idea to do 3G turns on the Viper with my pistol on my hip. All the local LEOs and CCWs drop them off there.
In those instances where it is not a law, my rule of thumb is to use my uncommon sense ( I say uncommon, because if it were common, everyone would have it).
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Old May 5, 2005, 06:06 PM   #3
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In Oregon, even if a place has a "No Weapons" sign (or text), they can't do anything about if you carry or not. No laws can be made when it comes to No Gun zones except by the legislature. All signs are meaningless.

ORS 166 clearly states where it is illegal to carry (even if some Sheriffs try to add to the list). Right now the only places off limits are buildings where Federal Courts are housed (and military bases, which the Umtilia Ammo Dump is considered). Other then that, you can carry anyplace else.

Now, the only place that I stopped carrying (loaded anyway) is the gun shop/range that I go to. I do so out of respect, not because of the sign.

Wayne
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Old May 5, 2005, 07:43 PM   #4
Avizpls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meddac19
I know some places make sense like courthouses and bars,
Now, what made you suggest that it makes sense not to carry in a bar? If im not there to get totally ripped, I carry. Its not in the laws saying i cant here in PA, so I do. You give up a right (in some places) while at the same time seeming to suggest that you should carry at a school. My rule is if it is not illegal, then i do it. ~IF~ I am caught, then all they can do to me is ask me to leave, which I will.
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Old May 5, 2005, 07:48 PM   #5
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In Ohio, if the place is properly posted (or on the legislature's list of no carry zones) it is a felony to carry there.

Therefore, . . . last Sunday is the perfect example. After church, I had an errand or two to do in Marion, . . . switched to jeans and a 1911. Pulled up and got out of my van to go into one of my "EX" favorite restaurants.

Since I had been there last time, . . . some dufus put up the "no guns in here" sign, . . . and I simply turned around and ate at Tim Hortons.

My "Ex" barber has that title for the same reason, as well as my "Ex" favorite oriental restaurant, and my "Ex" favorite pizza place.

I have a personal rule that if my whole family is not welcome anywhere, then I don't consider myself welcome, . . . and my 1911 is a part of my family.

May God bless,
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Old May 5, 2005, 09:14 PM   #6
USP45usp
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Dwight,

I perfectly understand what you did. I do hope that you did at least email or write a letter to these places explaining why you chose to go elsewhere. Maybe they will get some sense, maybe not. If not, just spread the word because the word is mightier then the sword (okay, so I changed it).

Wayne
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Old May 5, 2005, 09:47 PM   #7
BatmanX
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In the state of MN we have a weird situation. Since they reversed the Personal Protection Act, the signs that are in the storefronts have thus become illegal. If the Act had not been reversed, then the signs would mean, "You cannot come in here cause I put up this really stupid sign that tells the good guys to stay out, and tells the BG that there is no one in here armed."

So what do you do? Carry everywhere. If they notice it (it is concealed carry, so why would they ever see it?) they must first ask you to leave. If you don't leave, it is a 25.00 fine.

So, in MN, do what you would like, if you don't have a permit to carry, the Policia will take your gun and charge you 25.00 for a mis'd and you move on with your life.
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Old May 6, 2005, 05:06 AM   #8
jburtonpdx
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Quote:
In Ohio, if the place is properly posted (or on the legislature's list of no carry zones) it is a felony to carry there.
The mandated spots are felonies, such as a place that sells alcohol for consumption on site (watch out for this one, grocery stores that do wine tastings fall into this), government buildings of just about any type, schools, etc.

The business that chooses to ban, for example your ex barbershop, it is a misdemeanor and they have to prove you saw the sign. Not that I would suggest any violation of the law ever.

I have lost a favorite burger joint to "the sign". I wont go, even if not carrying. I talked to the manager at the place, hard-core anti....
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Old May 6, 2005, 07:17 AM   #9
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Unless that's a pat down or a metal detector at the door, I carry everywhere... and if there is a pat down or a metal detector at the door I don't go there unless I have to. There's only one club in Manchester I don't patronize because of thier policy of patting everyone down, and to be honest I probably wouldn't patronize it even if they didn't have said policy.
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Old May 6, 2005, 07:44 AM   #10
MEDDAC19
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Avizpls


The reason I suggested that it makes sense to not carry in bars is real simple, one drink impairs your mental faculties. I guess that I'm a little sensitive about this though. How many people have been killed or injured by someone who drove after not getting ripped in a bar. I don't want to get preachy but I have cervical spine injuries that will never go away because of someone who drank and drove. How do you think LEOs would react to the smell of alcohol on your breath if you needed to exercise your right? The law bans guns in schools except if they are there for a lawful pupose, CC is a lawful purpose. Probably not worth the hassle though.
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Old May 6, 2005, 09:00 AM   #11
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Carry bans in places that serve alcohol for consumption never made sense to me. Call me crazy, but if I'm not drinking, why shouldn't I be allowed to carry? Perhaps, by this logic, we should ban driving to any place that serves alcohol... of course, it might really put a damper in Applebee's Curbside to Go, however...
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Old May 6, 2005, 09:12 AM   #12
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Texas is very specific now as to where you can and cannot carry. Any court is off limits, and any business that derives 51% of profits from the consumption of alcohol onsite, and any place of business that properly posts a 30-06 sign. (30-06 being the chapter/verse of the legal code here in TX.)

Generally, I will not take my business to a non-carry zone. If for some reason I have to, like taking my sick kid to the hospital (30-06'd one), then I request security escort back to my car at night.
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Old May 6, 2005, 09:26 AM   #13
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schools, courts - I put it in the glove box, locked, while I'm away from the car. (My SO usually stays in the vehicle, so it's not unattended).

As for the school, if I'm there to "pick up or drop off" I can carry. I usually don't, though. I know most of the teachers at the grade school really well, and most of them wouldn't even blink. But, there are a few - uh, "recent grads" who are fine examples of our modern socialist system.
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Old May 6, 2005, 11:13 AM   #14
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Generally speaking, in the no-carry places, (like work for example) I leave my weapon in the car. If I have a choice not to go into those places (restaurants and bars are OPEN carry here in VA), then I do not go. I instead go to an alternative place that allows me to CC.

There are plenty of businesses that support legal gun carrying owners - why not support those...?

With regards to the bar / restaurant laws on not allowing carrying - I am a non-drinker. And I personally think that the law should take that into a account. There are many restaurant / bars here that do not serve alcohol to OPEN carrying gun owners. That is fine.

But with all due respect - there is yet to be an incident reported that a concealed carry gun owner got into an altercation because he was drunk. Can someone point one out to me?

In fact, it has been common in almost all jurisdictions - those that just adopted "must issue" CC laws, that crime goes down. The wild west syndrome does not happen. CC gun owners are usually law abiding good citizens that DO NOT WANT their privelage taken away. So they are very careful about NOT breaking the law.

For those of you that carry in no carry places - just ask yourself one question - Is the .000001 % chance of an incident occuring in this place at the time of my carry worth me losing my CC permit and weapon privelage?
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Old May 6, 2005, 11:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
"For those of you that carry in no carry places - just ask yourself one question - Is the .000001 % chance of an incident occuring in this place at the time of my carry worth me losing my CC permit and weapon privelage?"
Would saving your life or the life of your family be worth losing that right? It would to me.
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Old May 6, 2005, 11:58 AM   #16
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"Signs ...? What signs? I didn't see no sign."


Actually, I just stay home as much as possible. Finally got my dream place in the hills and I work from home, so why would I want to leave it?
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Old May 6, 2005, 12:12 PM   #17
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Bat,

Life is about choices. Some are made with careful intelligent thinking, some are based on presumptions, some are gut feel choices.

Living in America is great because we are free to make our choice.

Getting out of bed you are putting your life at risk. Walking out of your home - day or night - you are putting your life at risk. Drinking water you are putting your life at risk. Driving to work or to a concert is putting your life at risk.

The question are - what is a reasonable risk, and what is acceptable risk?

You are probably putting your family's life in more danger driving down the freeway everyday, than not carrying your concealed carry piece into a bar / restaurant.

The chances of getting into a major accident in our highways are much higher than being mugged / attacked. Unless you live in a bad area and are / or in a high risk profession (undercover cop etc...)

So if you feel its reasonable to walk into a place illegally concealing your weapon, go for it. Just be prepared for the consequences.
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Old May 6, 2005, 12:45 PM   #18
CajunBass
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No carry zones.

I've only had a CHP for a couple of weeks, but so far I have yet to encounter a place that was posted "no carry" except a hospital, and my work place. My work place has always had a "no guns" policy, so that's nothing new.

I look at a "no carry" sign a little differently I guess. How can I expect someone (a business, etc.) to honor my right to carry, if I'm not willing to respect their right to put up a sign that says "no guns". Rights cut both ways.

Rather I'll go in or not, I'm not sure. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it I guess.
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Old May 6, 2005, 12:58 PM   #19
BatmanX
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Duxman.
Re-read what I responded to.
If something were to happen, ie: "something bad" is how I read it.
Like I stated earlier, in MN, all signs are now invalid because the law passed that allowed us in MN to carry, was declared unconstitutional.

The flip side to that, the signage was also on that bill, therefore, all the signs that everyone made and are STILL displaying, are also unconstitutional.

Therefore, the only places in MN that you cannot carry, would be schools and government buildings. Obviously also your place of work, as it was most likely a condition of your hire.

I feel if I were to take your stance about the comments of driving on a freeway or drinking water and the possibility of something violent happening while in a restaurant or bar, and felt "eh, the chances of me having to save my life are less than having a car accident" would also lead me to believe that I didn't have to carry a gun at all!

All about how you feel I guess - but I was directly answering a question posed.

/EDIT: Perfect example is the thread that started today about someone having to use their gun coming out of the bowling alley. Had the BG been armed, it may have not turned out the way it did - as the BG would have had the upper hand.

Also is a reminder to be aware of your surroundings. Espically since he was parked in an alley, away from everyone else.
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Last edited by BatmanX; May 6, 2005 at 01:25 PM. Reason: add an example
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Old May 6, 2005, 01:49 PM   #20
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Bat - you are indeed lucky to be living in such a state that has good laws. The rest of us are not so.

I can see your point. You want to be armed no matter what, and the risk is worth it. What I was saying is that, for me, its not worth the risk carrying into an area here where it is prohibited and getting caught, because the risk of an encounter with a BG is so low.

Besides in the same situation as our friend above, I am always super cautious walking in a dark parking lot, would not have allowed this BG to sneak up and hit me from behind. And if all he was armed with was his fist, then I would stake my 23+ years of martial arts training experience vs. his druggie fighting technique.

If he was armed...different story.

I admire you for your strong convictions. Keep up the good fight!
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Old May 6, 2005, 02:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
But with all due respect - there is yet to be an incident reported that a concealed carry gun owner got into an altercation because he was drunk. Can someone point one out to me?
Dux, a coworker nearly got fired because of this. He was accosted by a vagrant after he came out of a bar. He drew on the guy. The resulting investigation cleared him criminally, but he got hammered at work and still may face a civil suit. He had a few drinks which made up the minds of the brass that he acted irresponsibly. Even if he hadn't had a drink, the situation was still the same. Screwed up story, but you asked for an example.
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Old May 6, 2005, 03:22 PM   #22
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Breacher,

That is a bad story. But the end result is no one got killed. Unfortunately this guy made a bad decision, but how does getting fired @ work because you are drunk have to do with having a gun?

He would have been fired anyway if the brass decided he was drunk at work regardless of being a CC permit holder? Right?
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Old May 6, 2005, 04:02 PM   #23
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I usually break the law and carry anyway. Obviously, I will use some discretion, like not carrying at the airport. I have ditched receipts and prepared lies in advance at times in case I have to explain an itinerary where I am carrying legally at the moment but have been into stores or places where it is illegal.
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Old May 6, 2005, 04:16 PM   #24
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i'll carry any way, unless there is a chance of getting searched or drunk. as a rule guns and alcohol dont mix(for me anyway)
my ccw has been everywhere with me. except to consulates, official buildings etc. but i have carried to the airport, made sure i avoided metal detectors and tried not to look suspicious. not a thing happened.
but this is south africa. i see guns in public every day (usually on LEO's) evry one else does too so the public is kinda blind to anyone carrying. think they just dont care anymore.
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Old May 6, 2005, 04:22 PM   #25
BreacherUp!
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Dux, I wasn't clear. He wasn't drunk AT work. When I say hammered, I meant "dealt with" by the brass. He was at a bar after work. And he is a cop, so that is why he had a weapon.
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