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Old April 21, 2005, 04:01 PM   #1
GeorgeF
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Scaring off bad guy with gun - danger he could ambush you later?

Always wondered this, and wondered if anyone had any experience.

SCENARIO:

You're walking back to your car after a night out in the city with your wife/girlfriend (and you're carrying concealed). Bad guy steps out of alley in front of you with knife and demands money. You brandish firearm and guy's eyes go huge and takes off. No justification for discharge of firearm, guy runs like devil on his tail.

As you are approaching car, you hear running feet behind you and as you turn around, you are tackled by same guy who starts groping for where you hid your gun (as he saw you pull it earlier).

OK

This is little far-fetched, but wonder how realistic this could be? Are we to assume that baddies like easy targets and won't bother if there is chance they could get hurt? Or would guy think 'Man, I can follow this guy and if he gives me half a chance I got me a free gun!'

Anybody fill me in on your procedures after a non-lethal confrontation? I'm sure the adrenalin is pumping and need time to collect thoughts. Thats the part that gets to me, I've just shown that I have a gun - am I clear or do I have to watch out even more?

Thanks!
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Old April 21, 2005, 04:29 PM   #2
AKhunter
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This seems like a good reason not to brandish--if I have to pull my gun, I'm gonna shoot it. The only way this guy's not getting shot is if he runs faster than I can aim and fire. He's threatening me and mine with deadly force. He may also be scared of the gun, but that's not my goal--my goal is to remove the ongoing threat to my life, but quick. By the time he figures out that it's not my wallet I'm pulling out, he's gonna be a few ounces of lead heavier. If he runs before I'm on target, then at the least, I'm gonna have to call 911 and have a long talk with an officer. It seems unlikely that anyone is gonna hang out and wait until the cops leave.

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Old April 21, 2005, 05:06 PM   #3
stephen426
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I think this scenario is ridiculous. First of all, you are the one who is better armed. Many criminals are cowards and only like easy pickings. You with a gun and him with a knife is not in his favor. Secondly, he won't grope you for your firearm. He will probably jam his knife in your back and then take your gun.

The most important thing for self defense is situational awareness. After a confrontation like the one you initially mentioned, you will probably be super alert. If you didn't draw the gun in the first place, you would probably have been robbed. If you shot the guy in the back as he ran away, you would most probably be arrested, prosecuted, and incarcerated.

Don't try to over analyze everything. If someone pulls a knife on you, draw your gun. If he runs away, watch which way he goes and get to your car as quickly as possible. Have the person who you are with covering you 6 or at least on the look out. Leave as quickly as possible. The end.
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Old April 21, 2005, 05:34 PM   #4
Para Bellum
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he knows you have a gun. he has none.
if he is going to tackle you, prepare to fight the most stupid person in the world...
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Old April 21, 2005, 10:59 PM   #5
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Let me retell this situation. A BG jumps you, and you scare him off with the threat of deadly force. You scare him so bad that he takes off running for all he's worth from a man with a pistol (not smart). Then, after he is safely out of range, he gathers his nerve enough to come back and confront you again. He tracks you down, gets into an ambush position, and charges from the rear, where he either decides that he is so good he does not need a knife, or he completely forgets what was in his hands only a few minutes before. Instead of taking you out, he starts groping for a gun, the location of which he has only an idea. This is all done without any rational motive, as he has been seen and he knows you are armed, alert, and may have called the cops.

Notes on this situation:

How far are you parked from whatever you were at?!!
If I was mugged, I would be on high alert and looking everywhere. He should not be able to sneak that close to you.
No rational person would come back to an armed, alert, and forewarned target.
Nobody would tackle a victim when he had a knife available.
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Old April 21, 2005, 11:15 PM   #6
pamick
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I can only agree with stephen426 that the scenario is abosulutly ridiculous and absurd. How about THIS scenario: You're fishing with with your wife/girlfriend while on a camping trip and a UFO lands nearby...
If a person is going to put forth "scenarios", at least try to be real.
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Old April 22, 2005, 12:23 AM   #7
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I think the general concensus is that in this stuation, no, you do not need to worry about a second round. On the other hand, if instead of running, the BG just backed down and walked away, muttering something about "getting the rest of the gang"...
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Old April 22, 2005, 08:38 AM   #8
GeorgeF
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Whew, lots of opinions. Remember this was a fishing expedition, and I did say it was far-fetched. I was just asking how likely this kind of thing was and what you all thought. Thanks for all insights, just a thought that came forth and I had no one in my circle of freinds who has had to draw their weapon yet (except the police ones, and thats kinda what they do for a living).

Thanks again.
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Old April 22, 2005, 10:01 AM   #9
Edward429451
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Oh I don't think its THAT ridiculous of a scenario. Sure it'd take a special kind of idiot to charge an armed man but as Heinlein said...Never underestimate the power of human stupidity...Just because we're thinking individuals who see the ridiculousness of such actions does not mean that drug crazed criminally minded punks would see things the same way! Doing something uttery ridiculous that no one in their right mind would expect, is actually pretty good strategy. Add to that some ego problems and you better be careful!

Two guys accosted me & my wife once, wanting us to play their little card game. I had to eventually put my hand on my gun to get em to back off, and yes the adreneline started pumping. They left, we left the other direction and the adreneline kept me on high alert and away from ambush points.
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Old April 22, 2005, 02:52 PM   #10
chris in va
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I think this type of thing is just in the movies.
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Old April 22, 2005, 05:29 PM   #11
sendec
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I think calling the scenario ridiculous is a little harsh. Suffice it to say I wouldnt be a bit concerned about it, but if someone else is worried about it......

You still hear plenty of cases where houses are burglarized for guns - the scenarios are not that different and criminals are'nt known for good decision making skills.

Still, I wouldnt think twice about it, and if an offender is so dumb as to give it a try, well, maybe some people need to be shot just because they are too stupid to let walk around loose
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Old April 22, 2005, 11:05 PM   #12
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Ok, is it likely: No. Could it happen, well, sure.

As said earlier, situational awareness should always be your priority. And in this scenario, you were just subjected to an attempted robbery, or worse. You'd be practically squirting adrenaline out of the pores of your skin. Your hand would be on your piece and your head would be on a swivel (at least, it should be).

That being the case, you'd be as ready as you could be. The BG would likely be about 5 miles away, but who can say for sure.
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Old April 23, 2005, 11:42 PM   #13
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Well just to add on if the bg (really stupid person) did come back for you since you're already on high alert you would here him running at you before he was close enough to do anything except maybe throw his knife at you.
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Old April 23, 2005, 11:52 PM   #14
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I don't think this is ridiculous at all... well perhaps the one written, but something similair.

Lets say he goes and fetches his buddy who's best friend is a 12 ga shotty and then doubles back. I could see this potentially happening given with what verbal confrontation happens.
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Old April 24, 2005, 01:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
You brandish firearm and guy's eyes go huge and takes off. No justification for discharge of firearm, guy runs like devil on his tail.
Of course you had reason to discharge your firearm. You were threatened by a person with a knife and in close proximity to you that could do serious bodily harm or cause your death, or that of your girlfriend.

As for the guy later sneaking up on you? Sure it could happen. It won't happen often, but there isn't anything preventing the guy from attacking you again, especially since your situational awareness went to hell and that you assumed that the guy was completely alone. You should have assumed that he would have allies and remain on guard until you are safely away.

Quote:
Many criminals are cowards and only like easy pickings. You with a gun and him with a knife is not in his favor. Secondly, he won't grope you for your firearm. He will probably jam his knife in your back and then take your gun.
Actually, most criminals are no more cowards than many professionals who deal in violence. Are snipers cowards because they shoot from concealed locations, often at quite long distances, such that enemy has little or no chance to fight back? No. Are members of the airforce cowards for dropping bombs from 50,000 feet, so high that the Iraqis could not see or hear them and didn't know they were there until the bombing started exploding? Nope.

Sure, criminals like easy pickings, but that does not make them cowards. Suggesting the bad guy is a coward is really something of a value-laden under estimation. We call them cowards because they are doing something we despise, but if they were truly cowards, they would not be engaging in close quarters conflicts.

The notion of easy pickings actually has a strong biological risk-reward component. While there are some highly skilled animal hunters like lions and cheetahs, if given the opportunity, they will scavenge a carcass if one is available instead of trying to hunt. When they do hunt, they tend to opt for young animals, old animals, or sickly animals. They are typically slower animals and less likely to harm the hunter. For example, when hunting zebras, the hoof blow from a healthy adult can actually kill the predator, that is why they go for easy pickings. The risk is much less.

Quote:
I think the general concensus is that in this stuation, no, you do not need to worry about a second round.
This is also an under estimation of the bad guy(s).




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Old April 24, 2005, 01:35 AM   #16
Wraith
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Well said.
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