The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 11, 2000, 09:08 AM   #1
woodit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2000
Posts: 289
Please see
www.thepetvine.com/xi/news?20000710/1

This is an article, posted on a pet-owners forum, about "canned hunting." It describes places where people shoot caged animals so that they can claim a "hunt trophy."

I usually don't get involved in hunting discussions as, although I do not choose to hunt, I do not feel it is my place to impose by beliefs upon other shooters.

Still, I find this activity -- as described
-- revolting and I'd be interested in what hunters think of "canned shooting."

woodit
woodit is offline  
Old July 11, 2000, 10:25 AM   #2
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,458
Well, since "hunting" means "search for", canned hunts aren't hunting. I'm a hunter, for well over 50 years. I have nothing but disgust for anything but fair chase, and that's about the limit of my politeness on the subject.

Some of this garbage was started in Texas, with cretins having other cretins pay inordinate sums to shoot big cats which were already nearly dead from old age. Hunters and hunting/shooting organizations worked with the Legislature to stop it. In the forefront of the lobbying were the Texas State Rifle Association and the Texas Wildlife Association.

I lose track of time, but I think it was about four years back that canned hunts became illegal, here. Newer laws, here, allow confiscation of all equipment used in illegal hunting--truck, gun, camping gear. I like that.

Regards, Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Old July 11, 2000, 05:49 PM   #3
SnakeLover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2000
Location: Mechanicsville, VA USA
Posts: 302
This topic is continually being debated and we have definitely not seen the last of it. The terms "canned hunt", "penned game hunt" and "ranch hunt" are often used interchangeably, (even in the web article listed)which brings about part of the issue, that being the definition. My comments below are my thoughts, and I'm sure there will be others.

I am adamently against taking a spot, letting loose an animal and then shooting it as it goes past. However, I think there are some areas of gray to be sure when talking about "penned game" and "ranch hunts".

I agree that "hunt" means to search for. In this case, are we certain that it's not a "hunt" on 10,000 acres that are fenced? Looking for a particular animal in something like this would still be a challenge. I don't really know enough about the Arkansas article to give an answer to that question. I do know there are ranches in Texas this size with 6-8 foot fences, which the deer pay no attention to. If deer are territorial, does it make any difference if they choose to be territorial in something like that as opposed to the Bob Marshall Wilderness??

I grew up on a farm in South Dakota. My brother and I raised pheasants as a 4-H project and then released them to help build on their numbers so that we could later hunt them. Should I be ashamed of shooting a pen raised pheasant during the next fall?

I will state that I hunted in South Africa last year on a ranch hunt. I can attest that you still have to "hunt" for the game. I spent 5 days on 3 different ranches looking for a kudu. I still had to walk through thorn bush, gain elevation to glass openings, sneak into position and then shoot just like in Wyoming for elk, but because I drove through a fence on the way in, this is less of a "hunt"??

I am afraid this topic may ultimately divide hunters, giving the animal rights groups opportnities to move in. The North American Hunting Club recently had a series of articles from it's panel members and there were differing views there as well.

Sorry for carrying on. I'll get off the soapbox now.

Snake
SnakeLover is offline  
Old July 11, 2000, 06:26 PM   #4
Erik
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 1999
Location: America
Posts: 3,479
I have no problem with the handful of large, exotic ranches.

I have a problem with the majority of outfits which fall far short of "vast." I read somewhere that the average "ranch" was three acres. I don't know about everyone else, but three acres does not a ranch make. (Those of you with three acre ranches, sorry, but it's true. )
Erik is offline  
Old July 11, 2000, 09:16 PM   #5
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
I'm very against penned hunts, but some of them are not what the seem. There was an article in one of my hunting mags within a few months ago that was talking about large game plots in texas (Ithink it was the NRA mag, or american hunter). The deer are penned in in large areas and only the big boys are harvested, you pay a good amount, but are fairly garunteed a trophy. You stil have to work for your animal, but the ranch hands guide you and usually can find you a decent one. These are still wild deer, and the way this is managed on private land seems ok to me, other people have different opinions and I surely wouldn't pay the big money these people ask for this kind of a hunt, but I don't see anything morally wrong with it.
BadMedicine is offline  
Old July 12, 2000, 01:27 AM   #6
Rutgers
Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2000
Location: Kalamazoo,MI,USA
Posts: 28
I am probably gonna catch hell for this, but here goes. as far as I'm concerned, if the animal was born and raised in captivity, I have no problem with "canned hunts". To me this is nothing different than raising and slaughtering cows, pigs or chickens. Her in Michigan, there is a "ranch" that raises buffalo. each week, 4 must be killed to butcher for meat sales. This company alows people to make the shot for $400. The shooter (notice I didnt say hunter) gets to keep the head and the Hide. Big Deal.
Now, If some guy has to have a head on the wall, not for the memory of freindship and adventure shared on a hunt, but to say "oh, I'm a big , tough man, Look what i killed! Blah blah blah" that guy has some real self esteem problems in my opinion. Let him deal with it himself. So, If you just want to kill something, pay the $$$$ and go do it. Get it mounted, brag about it. It's a free country (thank God). As for me, I'll Hunt mine. best wishes all,

Rutgers
Rutgers is offline  
Old July 12, 2000, 06:15 PM   #7
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
I think shooting something through the heat is a lot more human and less cold-blooded than how they do it in beef slaughter houses, were they lead them int a pen and then hit them between the eyes with a hammer....or in chicken houses were they flood the room with about a half inch of water and put an electric shock in it.
BadMedicine is offline  
Old July 12, 2000, 07:26 PM   #8
KilgorII
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
What are you talking about? I am a poultry science major at the University of Arkansas. I have worked for two major poultry companies in every area of production. They do not flood poultry houses and electrify the water to catch birds. For one the floor is usually dirt covered with about 6 inches of wood shavings. The houses are not built to hold water. The electricity would ground out and the birds would be covered in wet feces from the water and litter mixing. The poultry industry does everything they can to avoid fecal contamination of meat they darn sure wouldn't cover the birds in it prior to slaughter.

This is how they catch them. They use a blue light in the house so that the migrant worker team of about 6 guys can catch the birds at around 2 in the morning. The birds cannot see color and do not get as worked up with a blue light. This results in fewer broken wings and heart attacks. The workers catch them holding 5 birds in each hand and put them in the truck. Then they are trucked to the processing plant. They do this at night because it is cooler and the birds do not suffer from heat stress as nuch resulting in fewer early deaths and more meat.

Please know what you are talking about before you make such statements. We do not need to give PETA any more fuel. They are as bad as the anti-second amendment rights people.

[This message has been edited by KilgorII (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
Old July 12, 2000, 11:43 PM   #9
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,458
BAck some, oh, 30 or more years ago, the Michigan Wildlife folks set up an experiment. They fenced a 100-acre tract of heavy timber with thick underbrush; deer-proof fence.

I don't recall how many deer were supposed to have been in the tract, but it seemed like too many for the habitat, to me; but I'm used to the sparser country of central and west Texas.

Anyhow, they let hunters go into this tract and try their luck. Hunter success was somewhere around 10%.

Texas white tails tend to stay within an area of no more than 1-1/2 miles in rough diameter. Approximately 1,000 acres, mas o menos. A ranch-pasture of 10,000 acres will carry over 200 deer in average-good country; up to 400 in lush country. (I'm basing this on bits and pieces from TX wildlife folks; I won't argue over 50 deer, one way or the other at either end.) The main purpose of the deer-proof fence is to keep deer OUT, not IN. The landowner doesn't want his improved pasture over-loaded with deer from surrounding land which may well have NOT been improved.

But you give me a few days to check out a 10,000-acre pasture, and I'll then happily hunt only one acre--if I get to pick it.

I've seen places in Florida's swamps where three acres could hide a dozen deer--and if you jumped one, you'd better be able to shoot through trees! Or make a Chip McCormick look like molasses...

Every animal's gotta die. Some go out more honestly than others. Morals come into it when somebody shoots a pen-raised animal with no fear of people and calls it "hunting". But just because somebody else does that has nothing to do with me. I bear no guilt for somebody else's rape, murder, embezzlement, DUI, speeding...

FWIW, Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Old July 13, 2000, 01:19 PM   #10
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
As the Colonol said up above they may do it on different poultry farms, I've never worked on one, maybe he missed that episode of 20/20.
BadMedicine is offline  
Old July 13, 2000, 02:11 PM   #11
KilgorII
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm not sure what you are trying to cite, but that is not done by any of the top 7 poultry companies in the US.

By the way on topic. There are lines that should not be crossed in these types of hunts. However, there is so much gray area that a blanket statement or course of action cannot be made reasonably. thus it should be up to the hunter and hopefully places that practice unethical business will go out of business because hunters do not patronize them. We have to rely on hunters to not condone these types of hunts with their money.
 
Old July 13, 2000, 02:11 PM   #12
Coinneach
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: February 23, 1999
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,273
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BadMedicine:
maybe he missed that episode of 20/20.[/quote]

Oh yeah, there's a reliable, unbiased news source.

Coinneach is offline  
Old July 14, 2000, 04:51 PM   #13
Keith Rogan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 1999
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 1,014
The King Ranch in Texas is larger than the state of Rhode Island - is that a canned hunt?

And many people in the east hunt in private "clubs" that may be only 40-80 acres. Its not a ranch, its a "club".

I had this argument with a lady bowhunter who thought "Game Ranches" were awful, but she hunted some little Maryland club where somebody led you out to a tree stand in the morning based on a drawing...?

Its wrong to lump all these different things together - a hunt for exotic game on 5000 acres is perfectly legit. A hunt for a whitetail on 40 acres may also be legit. Both of these hunts are after free range animals that have all the habitat they'd normally use in the wild.

"Canned Hunt" does not necessarily mean "Caged Hunt".





------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

Keith Rogan is offline  
Old July 15, 2000, 07:22 PM   #14
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Is it okay to kill animals? If so then who cares how it is done?

If your shooting a domestic animal I don't think it counts as hunting. But outside of PR what does the word choice matter?

To me it is about the same as the way many people use the word "workout" or "shooting" when they just go to a gym or range and fool around for a bit. They have no structure and are not accomplishing anything other than R&R perhaps.
Glamdring is offline  
Old July 16, 2000, 02:50 PM   #15
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
Are you guys relaxed when you work out?? I think I may be doing something wrong
BadMedicine is offline  
Old July 16, 2000, 07:59 PM   #16
aerod1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2000
Location: Garland Texas U.S.A.
Posts: 730
I have been an avid hunter for years now. I am from Texas. I do not agree with the canned hunt and do not spend my dollars on such. I do not feel that can be considered hunting.

Jim Hall
aerod1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10145 seconds with 7 queries