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Old June 7, 2000, 01:34 PM   #1
mackie
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Will be using a 300 Win Mag on plains game; does it matter for this type of hunting? Will use a Remington for Push feed and a Winchester or Ruger for the controlled feed, any comments?
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Old June 7, 2000, 01:57 PM   #2
MAD DOG
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Yes, it matters.
Use the controlled feed Winchester for everything if you have the choice to do so.

The fellow I will be hunting Africa with at the end of this month just broke the bolt handle off of his .300 Mag Remington Sendero when a case stuck in the chamber. He did this barehanded on the firing range, no tools required.
He has decided since then to acquire some Winchesters for our hunt. Thank God.
Consider that before you go afield with a rifle that sports a two piece bolt and a push feed system....
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Old June 7, 2000, 03:34 PM   #3
Jeff, CA
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Food for thought: none other than the late, great Finn Aagaard said, in print, that his primary client-backup rifle (and the smoothest in his battery) was a post '64, push-feed Model 70, and he was quite content to bet his life on it.
 
Old June 7, 2000, 10:16 PM   #4
gunmart
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mad dog has his reasons for the controlled round feed and if you havent selected one by now by all means get the winchester for your africa hunt.if you have a remington already just take it if it has been proven fieldworthy in the past.the gun you know the best is the best gun for the trip.
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Old June 8, 2000, 11:25 AM   #5
MAD DOG
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Aagaard had some good ideas, and some that were not so good.
Betting your life on a push feed is one of the latter.
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Old June 8, 2000, 03:26 PM   #6
gunmart
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exactly how did your freind come to break the bolt on his 700.?
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Old June 8, 2000, 03:59 PM   #7
Paul B.
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Controlled feed all the way. While you might not have to face a dangerous animal, if the situation should arise, a double feed jam would not make your day.
A push feed action is fine for non-dangerous game, but if I hunt where there is a possibility of something that can bite back, I use a controlled feed rifle, usually something on a 98 Mauser.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Old June 8, 2000, 05:30 PM   #8
Jeff, CA
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Gunmart touched on it, and Aagaard certainly lived it: if the gun has been field proven, and if you have the confidence and skill, controlled feed is superfluous. If you don't have the confidence and skill, controlled feed won't help (although it certainly won't hurt in either case).

As for Aagaard's bad ideas, anyone who has gone into the bush after as many wounded buffalo as he did, raise your hand. Darn few hands up, I'll bet.

Would I have controlled feed on a rifle? If I could get it, but such actions for left handers are hard to come by. Would I sweat it if I couldn't? No.
 
Old June 8, 2000, 07:10 PM   #9
MAD DOG
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Gunmart,
He broke it by attempting to open it BY HAND while a cartridge was stuck in the chamber. The pathetic Remington bolt gave way long before the stuck case did. The extractor failed as well. On factory ammo no less.

I take this opportunity to (quite smugly) point out that this was a "field proven" veteran of several African hunts that fortunately chose to screw the pooch at the range rather than in the field.

"Confidence and skill" can not make up for failed equipment when a SHOT is required. They are indeed handy, and one can often skate by with nothing more, but I have never seen "confidence and skill" alone stop a big animal. That actually requires a gun that goes BANG, every time.

In point of fact, it is this reliability that engenders confidence, and allows subsequent development of greater skill.

Reliabilty in a weapon is never superfluous.

(unless of course, you are a die hard Remington 700 fan...)
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Old June 8, 2000, 07:32 PM   #10
Jeff, CA
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I've never seen one fail. Mine have always gone BANG when I wanted them to.

Remind me to tell you about the Mauser with the broken extractor I heard about...

NOW - if Winchester, or anyone else, could be bothered to produce a left-hand, controlled-feed action in actual quantity (so as to actually make them available to the public), I might become a convert. But what I've got now works 100%.
 
Old June 8, 2000, 07:50 PM   #11
MAD DOG
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Winchester offers their Classic Sporter LT in calibers .270 up through .338 in a lefty version, even a 7mm STW!
The .375 H&H Safari Classic comes in lefty, and several others.
I found these in stock at Jerry's Sports Center.
1-800-234-2612

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Old June 8, 2000, 10:01 PM   #12
gunmart
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yes mad dog a i am a diehard remington fan.i have a total of 12 from .223 to .458 win mag.

i hunt all the time with them and have never had a failure in the field or at the range.
a customer i once guided had a problem with the double feed issue on two seperate occations.seems he was use to the short action .308 and got the .338 all bound up when he short stoked it.

somtimes the ejector does get stuck on the 700 bolts.always from brass or other debris getting stuck in there.even on new factory guns out of the box.occationally the factory will have a rough spot or mill mark on the ejector.these need to be examined by a gunsmith prior to field use and polished if nessecary.

as far as extractors go.i have had my fair share of bulged cases getting stuck in the chamber when tweaking a load.in many cases the extractors have ripped the head clean off and stayed in tact.many are still in use in my 700.

winchester are plaged by there problems.the extractors are very weak and can chip very easily.when this happens you are garanteed a trip out of the field to remove a stuck case from the chamber.there is no way the extractor is going to slip over the case head.this is why i feel the push feed of the remingtons make a better,stronger more accurate action than winchester.you will never get a winchester trigger as good as a remington trigger.if you do it becomes unsafe to carry afield.in my world the only thing that winchester has over the remington is the magazines.they are much better.

now with that said i do belive that there are two very good claw eextractor guns on the market .1.dakota 2.zkk brno.

the brno is discontinued which is sad.the dakota action to me represents the best in actions today.they have no cast parts like the winchesters and from the ones i have built most of them will shoot almost as good as the remingtons.

i agree that any rifle so long as it has proven field worthy in the past is up to the task of africa plains animals.dangorous game can close so fast that if you miss on the first shot he is going to trample you anyway so make your first shot count.



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Old June 8, 2000, 10:25 PM   #13
Jeff, CA
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This is the first I've heard of any of the lefty Winchesters in stock, anywhere. I may give them a holler. Where is Jerry's?

Isn't the front edge of the Winchester extractor bevelled so it can snap over the rim?
 
Old June 8, 2000, 11:34 PM   #14
Herodotus
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What do you mean by "a better trigger"? The Winchester trigger is more reliable, like the feed, while the Remington should have a better pull. Which is better?
Paul Mauser's trigger was the best of all, if you like reliabilty.
Get a good Mauser and you will have a better rifle than any Remington or Winchester ever built. You can put any trigger you like on it. Anything else you like too, for that matter.
These Remington and Winchester rifles are all cheapened derivitives of Paul Mauser's design, you know.
Personally, I'd go with the controled feed for plains game, especially if this means African plains game and the resulting expensive trip. Why use a push feed for big game hunting, unless that's just what you happened to have on hand at the time? The manufacturing advantages won't mean anything out on the plains.
If I was going for plains game, I'd also get a really great scope for whatever rifle I finally wound up with. That would really put the frosting on the cake.
My Model 70 Classic Compact in 308 Win. will handle a hand chambered round with ease.This rifle has a number of problems, but they seem to have thought of this on the new Model 70's, so its no problem, hopefully.
Most important of all, Finn did not say he liked just any old push feed, just the one reliable one the he owned.
I have expressed my reservations on $500 factory guns before and have not changed my mind. Whether Remington or Winchester, you must give the rifle a full and vigorous shooting shake down before you take it on an expensive hunt. These cheap rifles are not reliable. You never can anticipate what the factory might have done wrong. A really good rifle is built by and gone over in detail by a good gunsmith, including firing, before it goes to you. They do not make such rifles for under $2,000 today.
If you want a really reliable rifle in a hurry, Dakota might be your best bet, but they start around $2,900 for the plain model. I have been able to examin at least 17 of these, and every one looked and felt like a grand rifle.
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