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Old April 12, 2005, 02:51 AM   #1
xmastree
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Daddy, this one's different

So there I was, loading up some .40 s/w and my daughter was busy putting the finished ones in the box.
Then she passed me one, "daddy, this one's different". I looked, and sure enough, it was. The primer was inverted.

Bugger, I thought, I must have put one in upside down.

So, I opened the bullet and deprimed it only to find that it was a spent primer which had somehow got itself put back in the wrong way.

How on earth could that happen?
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Old April 12, 2005, 03:49 AM   #2
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If you use the ram to prime, the spent primer may have been on the ram when you raised it and got shove into the pocket. Or it may have been in your tumbling media and got into the pocket during tumbling(?). But most likely it got mixed into your live primers somehow and was cycled through the system with the rest (because it was spent it didn't right itself like the live primers due to it's weight).

BTW - That sharp-eyed girl of yours is cute as a bug's ear!
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Old April 12, 2005, 07:13 AM   #3
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Well, since I don't clean the shells, the tumbling media thing isn't the cause.
What's that about primers righting themselves? I guess I forgot to mention I'm using a Dillon 550. the new primers sit vertically in a tube, it can't have got in there.
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Old April 12, 2005, 01:58 PM   #4
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It may have been on the ram when you deprimed the cases and was reseated into a case when you started priming. What I meant about "righting" themselves is when you orientate them - anvil-side up - to load them into the tube or priming tool so they are ready to insert into the case. As the weight of the priming compound is what orientates them, the spent primer will not position itself like the others. It's just that old adage - "Sh*t Happens"!
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Old April 12, 2005, 04:08 PM   #5
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A primer probably missed the spent primer catcher and landed in the primer seater. When the primer arm went to the tube to pick up a new primer a primer was not picked up because the seater was already full with the spent primer. You can prove this by skipping a cartridge at the sizing stage. When you do this an extra primer does not load into the arm or fall out on the bench because the press is doing what it was designed to do. I have a 550 also and wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Old April 12, 2005, 04:54 PM   #6
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yep - Nighthunter's got it. I've had it happen, just an ejected primer bouncing where it shouldn't...

I check this by visual inspection each time I bring the ram up - look for the gold anvil instead of silver primer face.
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Old April 12, 2005, 10:15 PM   #7
drinks
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Primer

This sort of thing is why I use only single stage presses, a hand priming tool and actually look at every case at each seperate step and always look in the case to see the level of powder.
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Old April 13, 2005, 05:18 AM   #8
xmastree
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Quote:
A primer probably missed the spent primer catcher and landed in the primer seater. When the primer arm went to the tube to pick up a new primer a primer was not picked up because the seater was already full with the spent primer.
But when the ram goes up and the old primer is ejected, the primer bar is moved back to pick up a new primer and therefore can't be seen. The only time I can see the next primer is by looking at the bar when the ram is half way down.

I can't see how a badly ejected primer can end up in the new primer seater, as it's well out of the way when the spent one is ejected. Usually if they aren't properly caught by the catcher, they end up on the floor or drop onto the steel plate on ehich the primer bar slides, and stop it sliding fully back.

I have to say that I'm pleased with the complete lack of "What? You let a four year old handle live ammunition?" posts.
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Old April 14, 2005, 12:19 AM   #9
caz223
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I've had that happen too.
Dillon 550.
It just makes sense, if they can in between the ram and the priming arm, they can get in the priming cup.
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Old April 14, 2005, 03:52 AM   #10
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I have to say that I'm pleased with the complete lack of "What? You let a four year old handle live ammunition?" posts.

What's wrong with a youngster learning about gun safety and ammo storage under the watchful eye of her father? She will develop a lifelong respect for these things and never get herself into a dangerous situation because of it. "Bring up a child in the way they should go, and they will never depart from it" - the Holy Bible.
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Old April 15, 2005, 04:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
I have to say that I'm pleased with the complete lack of "What? You let a four year old handle live ammunition?" posts.
What's wrong with a 4-year old handling ammo . I say that you're lucky that you have her helping, she's the one that spotted the "not like the others" and in my mind that's being a great helper .

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Old April 15, 2005, 09:03 PM   #12
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My 7 month old grand son pulled the handle of my press when my daughter and he where sitting at my bench.......it's never too early. We had a good laugh as he was being G/P's little helper. Mtnboomer has it right.
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Old April 15, 2005, 09:28 PM   #13
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Can I hire her to check my brass? I bought 1000 pieces of unprimed WW 223, and found one that never saw the flashhole punch. Pocket's there; just a solid wall at the bottom. I wonder how many I might have missed? Guess I'll find out in the middle of a timed-fire string at Camp Perry.

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Old April 16, 2005, 03:29 AM   #14
xmastree
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Quote:
What's wrong with a 4-year old handling ammo
Nothing at all. Of course, we here all know that it's quite safe. Perhaps if I posted that message on a 'caring mothers' forum it might be different...

Actually, I fing putting the finished rounds in the box the most tedious part of loading, so I'm happy to let her help out.


Quote:
one that never saw the flashhole punch. I wonder how many I might have missed?
Well, assuming you just ran them through the loader as normal, you would probably notice some resistance as the depriming pin went in.
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Old April 16, 2005, 12:06 PM   #15
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Nope, not me. I have to be different. I decap as a separate operation so I can get the primer pocket into the wash. These were new cases, so, of course, I skipped that little ritual.

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Old April 17, 2005, 04:03 AM   #16
xmastree
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Hmm... fired the rest of them yet?

I doubt the consequences will be disastrous, probably the primer will just blow itself out.

Here's an idea... do you still have the one with no hole? Load it up and fire it very carefully, wear a welding mask if need be... just to see what to expect if any of the others are defective. At least you'll be ready for it, rather than it happening at random.

If the results are undesirable, better to unload them all and check them.

Meanwhile, here's a pic of my little helper:

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Old April 17, 2005, 10:22 AM   #17
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My daughter is 10 and enjoys helping out with the loading.

This year she was old enough to handle the powder measuring and bullet seating operation herself.

She was extremely proud of the fact that I used "her" bullets on my last hunting trip.

Plus, the wife likes to see "daddy daughter "time.
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Old April 21, 2005, 02:00 AM   #18
xmastree
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She was extremely proud of the fact that I used "her" bullets on my last hunting trip.
What will she say when she realises that...

HER BULLETS KILLED BAMBI!

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Old April 21, 2005, 05:46 AM   #19
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I do all of my press work at the kitchen table, its bolted to a 2X8 and big ā€˜Cā€™ clamps attach it. My 7 year old daughter is renowned for finding that little primer that got away, or the case that is just out of reach. Sometimes it would seam a few extra cases make it to the floor, she has not caught on to that yet. Sometimes she will hand the bullets to me as I crush them in. Great pastime!
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Old April 22, 2005, 05:38 AM   #20
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I've had a spent primer land on the primer feed bar a few rare times. It's a long shot to actually have it land in the primer cup. This obviously had to happen while pulling the handle with the ram going up and primer feed retracting under the primer feed tube. The spent primer in the cup would prevent a new primer from dropping, and could have been a previously spent primer sitting somewhere on the press that fell in.
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Old April 22, 2005, 09:44 PM   #21
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My only issue with it would be whether she handled lead bullets. FMJ, fine. Even then, I would make sure she washed her hands afterward, as should you. Or even wear gloves. Young minds are more susceptible to damage from lead, and young kids have their hands in their mouths all the time.
I admit it, I am paranoid about lead. The research I have seen on its effects on kids is scary. (Danger to adults is much less, our minds are set already. LOL)
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Old April 22, 2005, 11:49 PM   #22
xmastree
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Yeah, it's lead bullets, and I do make sure she washes her hands afterwards. We both do. Although, to put the bullets in the box, nose down, she must pick them up by the shell, so the contact with the actual lead bullet is minimal, but still there obviously.
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Old April 23, 2005, 09:35 AM   #23
David Todd
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Looks like the "quality control department" cought the "production line " in another "monday funk"!
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Old April 23, 2005, 10:54 PM   #24
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To be clear, I didn't mean to sound like I was questioning anyone's judgement or discouraging working with kids. I think doing as many things as possible with them is great. Was only intended as a reminder.

Mike
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