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Old January 28, 2000, 05:24 AM   #1
oberkommando
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Anyone see discovery into the unknown or some such thing. Program was about a GOD BEAR in far east russia. Locals that are mountain people say they have seen them and the hunter said he has killed one in 82 or so. He only had photos and maybe a hide but russian scientist say they need a whole bear pretty much, to I.D. This hunter has been hunting for another on for the last seven years. Long story short, the Largest and strongest know today is the POLAR BEAR. Some theorize this god bear might be in between the Polar and the Great Ice Age bear. The ice age Bear Stood up to 7feet at the shoulder and 14feet on hind legs and could snap the backs of moose and elk no problem and weighing approx 2600-3000lbs and run fast as a horse. Talk about tough hunting! This god bear of russia maybe in between the two if it exists or what would be really nice is if it was the ICE AGE BEAR. And if there were enough talk about a trophy. Kinda like a cape buff only with claws and a huge bite kinda like a great white. I beleive they said skull was two and a half feet long. Thought this was intersting.To bad all of these Ice age animals are gone as we could have our own big five here in america if we had the IceBear,Sabrecat,Direwolf,Mammoth, and some other one I dont know about.


[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited January 28, 2000).]
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Old January 29, 2000, 02:38 PM   #2
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Didn't see it but its a fascinating thought. Read somewhere that its believed that the Kodiac/Alaskan brownies are the descendents of the Giant Cave bear of the Ice Age. Lack of the very large mammal prey lead to the big ones dying off

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Old January 29, 2000, 03:21 PM   #3
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I only caught the last few minutes of it, then they went into squids. They usually rerun that stuff, and hopefully I'll catch it next time. it sure looked interesting.
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Old January 31, 2000, 12:53 PM   #4
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It is indeed sad, that the only way to prove it exists is to shoot it. You can imagine that this is indeed a rare animal if it exists (and judging by the unknown skin the hunter had it might).

I'm all for hunting AND conservation. If the GOD BEAR is out there... wouldn't it be better for national geographic to shoot it on film than with a rifle? Chances are its in very small numbers, and competeing with existing bears for the same food sources.

I'd volunteer to go and take the photos.

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Old January 31, 2000, 04:13 PM   #5
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well since i work at Nat Geo let me ask around...

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Old January 31, 2000, 05:10 PM   #6
dZ
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found this on the web: http://www.thetrophyconnection.com/russia.htm

KAMCHATKA BROWN BEAR: (URSUS ARCTOS BERINGIANUS)

The Kamchatka Peninsula of Russia produces some of the largest brown bears in the world. These giant bears inhabit the lush, low coastal
regions of the peninsula which produce a plentiful supply of salmon and berries. With an almost unlimited food supply and a very limited amount
of hunting pressure, these huge bears can survive for many years, allowing them to mature and reach sizes of 10 or more feet. Our clients have
experienced excellent success on these giant bears, with the average bear measuring in the 8 1/2 to 9 foot range. Every hunter on Kamchatka has the
potential opportunity of harvesting a 10' brown bear, with 10-15% of our clients securing one of this size.
Hunts are offered in the spring and fall,
May 1-30 and August 1-October 30, and are based on a 14-day itinerary and 10 days of hunting. The Kamchatka Peninsula is reached via
Anchorage Alaska at an average cost of $1,200 r/t. From Petropavlovsk, hunters are taken by regular flight into a regional center, (approximately
$500 r/t), then into the hunting area by helicopter, which is tented camps using snow machines as the main transportation in the field; fall hunting is
done on foot, penetrating inaccessible country by float trip or motor boat. These highly successful hunts are priced at $6,800 plus $2,500
trophy fee and second bear may be harvested in the spring and fall on a trophy fee basis of $5,500. Others species can be combined with brown
bear in the fall, such as Kamchatka bighorn sheep, snow sheep and moose, with extra days added to the hunt itinerary.
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Old January 31, 2000, 05:37 PM   #7
dZ
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here is a big bear:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/expltx/p...city/short.htm

Available information suggests that Arctodus simus, the short-faced bear, was the largest and most aggressive carnivore to ever exist in Cass County, Texas. It
was an extraordinary creature that could not be matched in speed, strength, and ability to track down prey. It's position in the food pyramid of 12,000 years ago
indicates that tons of biomass was required to support only one member of this species. Since we know that the existence of just one of a species will not
perpetuate that species, there must have been at least a few around at the same time near the end of the Pleistocene geologic time period when paleo man made
his debut here.

Unusually tall, the short-faced bear reached nearly two meters at the shoulders when walking on all four legs. When it reared up on its hind limbs to run like a
man, it stood 3.4 meters tall. Much taller than a black bear, Arctodus had a much slimmer and streamlined shape. Its waistline was about the same girth as the
legs. This made it fast and agile. Nothing could get away from this predator. With a relatively short face lacking a well marked forehead, it had a short broad
muzzle resembling a lion rather than any living North American bear. With these teeth and giant razor sharp claws, the short-faced bear easily shredded hair,
hide, flesh and muscle tissue.

Arctodus became widespread in North America about one million years ago occupying well drained grasslands and forests west of the Mississippi River. Its
northern range, the Yukon and Alaska, is documented by partial skeletons recovered by archaeologists in frozen silt near Dawson City, at Old Crow Basin,
Edmonton and Lebret. Pleistocene northlands offered a variety of delicious entrees to any carnivore with a healthy appetite. Huge bison-larger than any alive
today- roamed the wilds along with giant ground sloths, ancient horses, muskoxen, caribou, and deer. Carbon dating to 30,000 years ago puts Arctodus in North
America as a contemporary of the first human occupants, the paleoindians. Its presence has been indicated by archaeological finds as close to Cass County as El
Derado and Lubbock. Therefore, inference puts the beast right here with our first human inhabitants. Because of our acidic soil and high humidity, no Arctodus
bones will be found. However, primitive rock tools of paleoindians are common as is evidence of a technological advancement in weaponry that may play a role
in the demise of the most feared carnivore.

Imagine the scenario of man being hunted instead of being the hunter. How about being tracked by the biggest, fastest, most agile predator to ever walk the face
of North America? Your defense consists of a bunch of hand held sticks with pointed rocks attached at one end. And this guy is like the present day Kodiak
bear, it does not give up! If necessity IS the mother of invention, could this predator have pressed early peoples to come up with a quick fix for their extreme
need? Could it have picked on the wrong animal? After all, early man did have one asset over Arctodus, ... brain power!

The local archaeological record indicates a sparse but widespread habitation of the area as far back as 12,000 years ago. These earliest people were nomadic
hunter gatherers living in small family groups and subsisting off of fish, mammals, roots, berries and nuts. The predominant weapon for hunting and defense
was the spear. Rock points found in the county by amateurs as well as professional archaeologists date to the close of the ice age; Clovis, Folsum, Scotts Bluff,
Plainview, and Lubbock. At some point in time around 10,000 years ago, cultural characteristics changed to include larger bands of nomads accessing resources
in a more organized fashion with a new weapon. This "archaic period" lasted from about 10,000 years ago until about 4,000 years ago when agriculture emerged
as a predominant subsistence method. Over this 6,000 year span, the weapon of choice became the atlatl, a small spear with fore and hind shafts which was
utilized with a throwing stick. This invention was a giant leap in technology because the throwing stick employed leverage and allowed for killing to be done at a
distance. Hunting of large animals could be done much more safely. Suddenly, advantage went to the human beings. About 8,000 years ago, the short-faced bear
is no more-extinction! Over the next thousand years, all the other large mammals become extinct. Should archaic man have been more selective in his "thinning"
of the large mammals? One scientific theory professes that these people closed the door forever on North America's megafauna. Another theory states that the
slow warming of the Earth that persists today was the cause. Whatever the reason, Arctodus simus has vanished along with its many relatives. If your people
were being exterminated by a monster bear, and all you had was wood and rocks, what would you do about it?
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Old January 31, 2000, 05:48 PM   #8
dZ
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thats a big bear! http://www.beringia.com/01student/mainb4.html
here is the big 9 of North America from the ice age:
Jefferson's Ground Sloth, Woolly Mammoth, American Mastodon, North American Short-Faced Bear, American Lion, Giant Beaver, American Scimitar Cat, Bison, Alaskan Camel


[This message has been edited by dZ (edited February 01, 2000).]
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Old February 1, 2000, 01:21 PM   #9
Dr.Rob
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Cool info DZ.. so how about an article for national geo where we go recreate an ice age hunt on Kamchatka using only simple stone tools??

I speak a bit of russian and am handy with a camera...

feeling daring? Or just plain crazy?

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Old February 1, 2000, 05:18 PM   #10
dZ
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well...
one of our picture editors significant others has been doing research in Kamchatka with the locals. Who knows there just might be a geo story here.

a bear that can stand up and put a paw on the rim of a basketball hoop

can you say sporting requirement for .50 bmg?



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Old February 2, 2000, 08:51 AM   #11
Spencer Stewart
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When suggested that the arrival of humans to the North American continent via the Russian/American land bridge caused the demise of our larger fauna I wondered why the same did not happen in Africa, where much of the diversity remains. Well, my prof (Mammalogy, evolutionary biologist) speculated that because humans developed in Africa they were able to evolve next to these larger fauna, and vice versa. Apparently they knew how to get along.

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Old February 2, 2000, 12:16 PM   #12
Dr.Rob
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Any room on the team for me? hmm I used to know this girl who did grant writing for a living...

Keep me posted.

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Old February 2, 2000, 04:38 PM   #13
dZ
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one of the theories is that the North American Megafauna were exterminated by humans at the pace of human migration

Dang humans showed up & the big mammoths did not run away. We wiped out that valley & moved onward eventually to south america.

Kinda cool how the above article thinks the humans evolved the technology to deal with giant bears. Kill or be killed

if we have an NGM expedition to Russia
it won't be me in the field. I was very close to being on the trip to find the Japanese sub in the Atlantic thou...

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Old February 2, 2000, 05:08 PM   #14
Dr.Rob
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DZ, drop me a line on e-mail i'd like to chat further about this.

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Old January 23, 2006, 10:48 PM   #15
dZ
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a few years later and...

the Bears of Kamchatka:

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/n...re3/index.html

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/n...nds/index.html

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/n...ultimedia.html
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Old January 23, 2006, 11:41 PM   #16
impact
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Quote:
When suggested that the arrival of humans to the North American continent via the Russian/American land bridge caused the demise of our larger fauna I wondered why the same did not happen in Africa, where much of the diversity remains. Well, my prof (Mammalogy, evolutionary biologist) speculated that because humans developed in Africa they were able to evolve next to these larger fauna, and vice versa. Apparently they knew how to get along.

Spencer

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I see alot of liberal slant in what you say. You should try to live in the woods and then try to "consider" possibility.
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