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Old March 25, 2005, 02:12 PM   #1
jadzia007
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Shooting after a sprint?

No I'm not trying out for the Olympic BiAthlon I'm just trying to get in some training that might help in situations. I shoot about once a week....and about once a month with a few hollowpoints that I keep in the mag. I spend some $$$ shooting the rounds I intend to defend myself with...but I figure I need to know how I will shoot with them in the gun as well as practice rounds....I wondering if training after a bit of a sprint...just to get a little tired, breathing hard...and maybe shakey would be beneficial? I guess my thinking is.....if I at least train a little bit in that situation (maybe running away...being chased...who knows) I might react a bit better if the real thing comes.
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Old March 25, 2005, 02:18 PM   #2
perception
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If you can do it safely where you shoot then I would say go for it. Better than just punching paper all day.
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Old March 25, 2005, 02:26 PM   #3
NSO_w/_SIG
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Yep it is a good idea

If you can do it safely, it is part of my qualifications every year as a responder to qualify on a stress course or tatical course as we now call it. It includes a few mins of running followed by a qualification course that includes transitioning between, AR, shotgun, and handgun. Includes loud music playing in background and shell casings being thrown at you along with firing with gas mask and vest on.
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Old March 25, 2005, 03:13 PM   #4
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Push-ups

You don't even need to sprint. Do push-ups. That even stresses your arms...
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Old March 25, 2005, 07:16 PM   #5
oneeyeross
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Go for it.

I usually shoot after I feed and water all the critters. That usually has me huffing and puffing. It does, indeed, make a difference.

Remember that fire and manuever range during basic? Simulators going off, people on both sides and you walking the course doing live fire? There's a reason the military did that to us....
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Old March 25, 2005, 08:36 PM   #6
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When I was active duty, before we went to an, um, er, interesting location, we qualified by running a 25yd sprint to the firing line, firing 2 shots, running back, firing 2 shots, etc. until a 30 round mag was empty. It was supposed to simulate firing under stress. This was a semi-urban environment, so we shot mostly 15-30yds. Even at this close range, most scores went WAY down (No one ever accused us airmen of being in shape). It was good training, though.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. The M16 was put on safe and placed on a table during sprints. They sure didn't trust us running with a hot weapon.
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Old March 26, 2005, 07:13 AM   #7
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Push ups as Para Bellum has suggested are one possibility in addition to running in place.

It is good training all round.
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Old March 26, 2005, 09:04 AM   #8
Double Naught Spy
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High heart rate and winded shooting is a very good drill. I figure that if I am ever in a self defense shooting, there will likely be running involved, such as to gain distance from the bad guy, to cover, or to some sort of safe location. The question will be whether or not it is before or after the shooting has occurred.

While it is a good drill, is should be approached incrementally if you haven't done it before. Sort of like running with scissors, there are some inherent dangers in the practice. So building up distance or exertion is a good thing to do so that you become accustomed to knowing what expect about your body and trying to multitask. I have seen folks stumble (me), trip, or even draw a pistol that subsequently went flying down range.

Where I used to shoot, if nobody else was at the range, we would set up targets in 3 different shooting bays. We would then start a the last bay, sprint to the first, shoot the targets in the first bay, reholster and run to the second bay, shoot and resholster, and run to the 3rd bay and shoot. We did this with a timer and with an RO running with the shooter. The next set would have the shooter as RO and the RO as the shooter.

We learned several things. ...
Fat guy run and shoot isn't fun for the fat guys
Heart rate/pulse muzzle jump gets more and more pronounced after more exertion and as the shooter tires.
Relative to speed, marksmanship, and distance to target, if shooter speed and distance to target are maintained, then marksmanship suffers with high heart rate exertion. If speed is not a factor and the shooter can take time to shoot, then marksmanship won't suffer nearly as much. If speed is retained and distance to target decreased, marksmanship will improve.

We would shoot at varied distances. For shorter range shooting of 5-7 yards, getting shots on target usually was not a problem, but group size sucked and things like double taps would be quite a distance apart between the two shots. At 15 yards, shots were all over the place. It was not uncommon that with shooting multiple targets with double taps at 15 yards and trying to maintain speed, it was not uncommon for one or both shots to have missed a target.

Now add shooting on the move. When shooting on the move in individual ranges as we sprinted through the drill, we had targets set up in each range to be shot while on the move at walking speed. This added another dimension of difficulty to the process as the shooter dealt with heart rate/pulse muzzle bounce and gun bounce from trying to aim and shoot while moving.

I know, that all sounds rather pitiful. Since then, we have worked through some of the issues as the drills have been repeated.

Several years ago, there was a program called, "The Commish" about a police commisioner. There was an officer-involved shooting and some question about how well the officer might have been able to shoot after a long run. So he had his officers all run the distance into a shooting bay where they were to then draw and fire. The shooting was so bad that it was funy to watch. Knowing what I know now, what I saw as funny to watch was actually a very real and very serious potential problem faced by those shooting in self defense. The goofs shown in the program were not all that different than those we experienced.
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Old March 26, 2005, 09:10 AM   #9
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Thanks, Double-naught.

Something we should all consider and practice, if possible.
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Old March 26, 2005, 11:01 PM   #10
jadzia007
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Thanks guys...this is something I will do often

Um...Oneeyeross.....I was in the Air Force.. ..never had to go thru a live fire course....lol.

smince...I was planning to start a bit with running....and then dry fire...just to get the feel of pulling it out of the holster after the run.

Double...that sounds GREAT. I happen to live by some coal banks and wooded areas so I'll have no trouble setting up a little course with different targets...at different hieghts and distances.

Gosh...I can't wait to go set up my little course. I knew it was a good idea!! LMAO!!
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Old March 27, 2005, 12:36 AM   #11
yorec
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Yep, good idea.

I've also made a point of shooting under the influence of an adrenaline dump whan I can - which is not the easiest thing to come by. One way, I've found anyway is to take a bite from the local K9 officer's dog at the range - (Wearing the padded suit and/or cuff of course!) Afterward I'm pumped full of adrenaline... quite the eye opener when I first toed the firingline afterward.
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Old March 29, 2005, 04:43 PM   #12
earlsimmons
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If you want to simulate stress/excitement but you're lazy, you can just pop a couple Vivarins before you head off to the range.
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Old March 29, 2005, 04:58 PM   #13
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Try IPSC. The "clock" pressure will pump your adrenaline also.
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Old April 1, 2005, 11:50 PM   #14
Hardtarget
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To keep the safty level very high, you can always let your shooting buddy stand at the firing line holding the weapon. You sprint a predetermined distance and back to the weapon and start your shot string. This way you will not be running with a loaded weapon. You could load the weapon after the sprint, also. We have done this...I was not impressed with my results either. I did learn some though....like I need to practice!
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Old April 2, 2005, 03:45 AM   #15
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Hard Target

We do one where we take our Sig apart and leave it in pieces on different yard lines. We start running from the 200 yd line, we pick up the the frame, then we have the barrel, then recoil spring and guide, then the slide, at the 25 yd line we have the slide and two loaded 15 rd mags. We use this in head to head competion........... put the gun together load the mag, and fire a course of fire. If you score high enough in the fastest time you move on.
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