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Old March 18, 2005, 04:28 PM   #26
IronGeek
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Yappy Dogs

The thought of a small yappy dog makes me cringe. I say get whatever you like, but take the noise level into account. Also, if you have a large yard, then the dog's size shouldn't be an issue. For me, nothing beats my pitibull. He's smart, alert, & not vocal at all. He barks once or twice when anyone comes to the door, but that's all. His hair is short, meaning minimal cleanup. Besides, just the sight of this dog is adequate protection for my home.

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Old March 18, 2005, 05:04 PM   #27
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akc

The akc is just a registry, this means that they sell numbers and if you buy one that you are promising that the parents of the dog you are registering are really the dogs you say they are (also registered with akc.) There are alot of registries. Most good dogs will be from registered parents because in order to consistently get good dogs, you have to keep track of which dogs you are breeding to which and how they are related to other dogs. A breeder who cares about producing good dogs will register them with *somebody.* By restricting yourself to breeders that health screen their dogs, you are pretty much going to have to get a purebred dog. Not all good breeds are recognized by the AKC and some are lumped together with other breeds by the AKC. This said, most AKC dogs, nay, most dogs period are worthless for serious work. Basically, the fact that a dog is registered with AKC or any other registry means *nothing* as far as a guarantee of quality--although having a dog that *isn't* registered puts the odds *way* to the other side, ie., suck.

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PS; How is it in Eugene, we are considering relocating there ina couple of years, after we get back from Japan.

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Old March 18, 2005, 05:12 PM   #28
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Chris, Thanks for the idea of the clippers. I was thinking of that. From what I've read, with each persons practicular schipperke, they know when the dog is going to "blow" and give them baths outside and then force dry them which removes the hair.

And yes, I remember boot, and the loss of hair .

HKMP5: You just had to post that pic didn't you.... everytime I come to respond I have to stop and view the pic, you're right, that is one cute pup .

Okay, right now I'm down to a:

1. Schipperke
2. Mini-Dashhound
3. Terrier (that is not like my sisters)

I'm still reading on the other suggestions. The main thing that I have to ensure is that the breed gets along with cats. The shilte is the one that I'm researching now.

Thanks again.

Wayne
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Old March 18, 2005, 05:13 PM   #29
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Yes! Jack Russell
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Old March 18, 2005, 05:28 PM   #30
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What's your sister's dog like/breed? I had a Jack Russell for 7 years (she had to go to camp grandma as she bullied my 90 pound American Bulldog so mercilessly that he finally nearly killed her.) She was a good dog for hiking and very alert around the house. If you get one, get a broken coated one, as the smooth coats shed year round. She was good with cats, as most of them had at least 5 pounds on her. Hell on squirrels and other rodents. If I were to recommend one for you, I'd get as large a male as you can find--probably in the low 20's weight wise as an adult.

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Old March 18, 2005, 05:47 PM   #31
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USP45usp,

i mentioned that my parents have a Schipperke.

let me also mention that my sister has both a miniature long-haired dachshund and a rat terrier.

the dachshund is a sweetheart. barks at the right time. not sure she would make much in the way of attack. loves to sit in your lap. also very independent.

the rat terrier i think has ADD or something, and it does NOT get along well with other animals, my mom's Schipperke in particular.

in fact, the terrier does not get to stay at my folks house over christmas because she doesn't play well with others. she stays at the brother-in-laws and does just fine over there (no other animals).

the terrier, she is a sweet dog when she is the center of attention, and man can she jump! she also barks, nothing will get within earshot without notification. and i have no doubts that she would attack in the right situation.

one last anecdote. the night of my sisters wedding, the terrier escaped and we spent SEVERAL hours trying to catch her. let me tell you that she runs about twice as fast as the fastest human and three times as fast as me!

just some of my personal experience. YMMV
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Old March 18, 2005, 06:52 PM   #32
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Read thru the posts and most are at least partly correct, some of the time. I have dealt with at least a few hundred (in some cases a few thousand) of each breed suggested, and they are all good - individually. I have also seen bad examples of every one of these breeds; ie, serious physical and/or mental problems that usually resulted in there euthanasia. I know I sound like a broken record, but I would encourage you to take a trip to wherever is the closest good sized animal shelter where there is a healthy adoption program going on. Try to stick with young, adult dogs. Almost any dog will bark at strangers once they realize that this is their home (ie, territory). As for getting along with cats, well, if I can train my pitpull, rescued from a fighting ring and thinking of cats as something to eat, then I believe any dog can be so trained. In my case, I just restrained him until he stopped trying to go after any cat he might see on our walks, then I'd give him the treat. It wasn't long before he was pointing out cats I hadn't even seen so he could get more treats. By the way, don't rule out pitbulls either, they come in all sizes from twenty-something pounds up to over 130 lbs. There is no such thing as a "small" pitbull - just more compact. Whatever you do, take your time. Good luck, and let me know if I can be of any help.
By the way: I hope you got my reply to your message. I'm never to sure email-type stuff goes anywhere but into the ozone.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:00 PM   #33
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AK: First, thanks for the explaination of AKC registered. I always just thought it was a way for a breeder to justify some of their prices . As for Eugene, It's 51/49 (liberal Vs conservative;moderate). If the college wasn't here then I have no doubt that Eugene would have been at least a red county (even moreso of a libertarian color). I wouldn't live in Eugene proper, take a look at Springfield, OR (right next to Eugene). Especialy when it comes to taxes. If you wish more information you can PM me and I'll try to give you all the personal experience that I have here).

Irongeek: The reason for the smallness of the dog isn't because the yard isn't big enough, but the house. Even a medium sized dog (which is what my sister had (small to medium)) got cramped and I want something that will be more of a house dog (day and night) and then have the mornings and the evenings to go out and play (all day if it wants on the weekends). Also, I don't know how a pit will react with my cat. I love the cat dearly (she's been with me for over 12 years) and I couldn't bring in anything that would not be tolerate of the cat.

Dr. Max: I know that just because you pay for papers doesn't mean that you won't get the lemon . I can't go to the pound because I don't qualify to be able to adopt a dog/cat. I tried that a couple of months ago and filled out an extensive questionaire. I answer and gave back and while it was being "graded" I went to the back to look at the dogs. I did find one (forget the breed, it wasn't a mutt) that was on "death row". I picked him out and we got along and he and I were happy. Until I went back up front and was informed that I couldn't adopt. I asked why. The answer YOU ARE A SINGLE MALE. Yup, because I was a single male. They were concerned that I was going to abuse the dog since I didn't have a wife or children in which to be able to discuss issues . I went back a couple of weeks ago and was informed that I was on the "no adopt list".

Oh, and the dog that I wanted, they killed it two days later :barf:

Wayne

edited for Dr. Max: Yes, I did get your PM and thanks .

Last edited by USP45usp; March 18, 2005 at 08:24 PM. Reason: to add
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:07 PM   #34
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I have to put my vote in for Scotties. I have three now, and have had many more over the years.
Their teeth are as large as a German Shephard's, and their jaw strength is as strong. My laddie weights in at about 28 pounds, is very fast, and very aggressive. He has run down and killed squirrel, rabbit, possum, and two coons.
The Scotties rank right up there as watch dogs. Their bark is deep, and they will certainly defend your home.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:07 PM   #35
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Shelties and Cats:

Been there, done that. I had 3 cats along with the Sheltie, no problem. If the puppy is raised with cats, they get along fine. If the cat(s) doesn't like dogs, however, there may still be a problem, but that problem would be with the cat(s) and would not be any different with whatever breed of dog you get.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:16 PM   #36
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Dachshund!

Easy to maintain, doesn't shed, easy to confine due to their short legs, a bark that sounds like ti's coming from a much bigger dog, and a natural alertness and confidence. Dachsies are very territorial and protective, yet they accept strangers without problems once they've been "cleared".

We have four, and they are an excellent alarm system and door-to-door-salesman deterrent. They're like little Dobermans with short legs.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:38 PM   #37
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"After having several dogs, I find vocal dogs to be very...VERY annoying. Some will bark at completely normal things such as people walking by on the sidewalk, other dogs etc. Others just won't shut up after the initial irritant.

Rather, I like the silent intelligent type. You're sitting at home watching TV, and suddenly their ears will perk and usually stare at the source of the sound or give a couple low whufs or bark once. My German shepherd would do that, but he was WAY too big for my little townhouse."


a basenji fits that bill quite nicely, they do not bark EVER, though they are definately not mute, they keep themselves clean like a cat,shed little and are keenly alert, plus they are very wary of strangers, and they can defend thier turf if need be.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:50 PM   #38
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I'm on my second Westie (West Highland Terrier). My pup is almost 10 months and when she senses anything outside she low growels and woofs. My first Westie wasn't a yapper, neither is my pup. If a noise becomes intense she will BARK! Not Yap! When she wants to go out she talks.

She is scary intelligent, very fast, and has an unusally strong neck and jaw, a good watch dog and a great companion. An adult female Westie will weigh about 15Lbs, give or take a few.

And, Oh yeah, if you have never been owned by a Westie or other terrier, good luck! You will have your hands full until you pick up on it.
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Old March 18, 2005, 08:37 PM   #39
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For the breeds that everyone has mentioned, where did you find your companions? Breeders, pet stores, pound? If I find a breeder out of state and it's clear across the US, how is the best way to get it to your state (I'm scour my state first)?

I'll tell you the truth, right now I'm really interested in the Schippeke and the Mini-Dachshund, with the mini-Doberman, the Sheltie, and then the Terriers.

AK asked me what type of terrier that my sister has (had, she abandoned it and my uncle took it) and I'm not really sure. She does catch mice but not sure if she is a rat-terrier because she is medium haired, not short. She may have a mix in her and whatever that mix is, she got the short end of the stick on intelligence. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike her and she'd be a great family pet dog but she's just not my cup of tea .

HKmp5: How many hits you got on that pic now... at least 20 of them are mine . Also, I remember an aunt or a family member (long ago) that had a Dachshund and if I remember right, it was very protective of her.

Wayne
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Old March 18, 2005, 09:06 PM   #40
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What *I'd* do to get a dog: (keep in mind that I'm a dog person and kind of obsessive about it.)
1 I'd decide what I want from the dog.
2 pick the breed that closest approximates my needs
3 find the *best* breeder of that breed for my desired use
4 get to know the breeder and If I thought they could help me, make a deposit.
5 wait for my pup

A breeder you can go see is a definite plus, but as I live pretty remotely in Alaska right now, I'm outta luck as far as that goes. It's important to have trust in your breeder as if something goes wrong, you need to know that they will be there for you. For instance, I'm considering a newfoundland as my next dog, maybe 5 years away--The breeder I really like is in Oregon--If I can get a dog from them, I will, regardless of where I happen to be at the time. It's common for breeders to ship pups, it typically adds a couple of hundred bucks to the price of the dog for shipping and crate costs. Sorry to hear about that bs at the shelter--that attitude really ****** me off--the arrogance to assume that the dog would be better off dead than in a home that they 'wouldn't approve of.' It's the same bs that makes some animal shelters decide to put down all pits rather than try to find them homes. Freaking ridiculous. As far as Eugene goes, I used to consider myself pretty liberal, but I'm not so sure I qualify anymore--at least as far as most liberals would consider. I guess I'm just "pro-rights" on pretty much everything.

AK
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Old March 18, 2005, 10:36 PM   #41
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OK - I wasn't going to do this, since it's not the dog type you were interested in..but I will anyway.

One word: bullmastiff.

I had two in my teens. OK - they're not small. In fact, they're HUGE. But check this out - they are lazy as can be. I'm talking about furniture. They're practically footstools. I mean, sure, they like to go for walks and they like to go for car rides. But they don't want to run and they don't want to fetch. They're fine in a fairly small space. They don't care for extreme heat or cold, so they're INDOOR dogs, but they won't tear your house up.

They're NOT yappy - ours NEVER barked unless someone pulled into the driveway or knocked on the door. And they're intimidating as can be (100+ pounds and giant head with a proportionally giant mouth), but they're big teddy bears.

If you want a dog to hang out with, and you're down with the occasional walk and yard access (just like you'd do with a terrier), these are GREAT dogs. Not athletes, not supermotivated dogs, just GREAT BIG easygoing animals.
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Old March 18, 2005, 10:56 PM   #42
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My Sheltie was direct from a local (back in Tx) breeder who was a co-worker of my #1 mother-in-law. Actually, she (the dog, not the mother-in-law) was a show dog who had already done all of her shows and had been used a a breeder. She ended up having "female problems" and had to be fixed. From that point on she was just an extra mouth to feed, and he had 24 other shelties at the time, so he gave her to us. Best dog I ever had, came leash trained and all -- after all, she was a show dog.
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Old March 19, 2005, 12:09 AM   #43
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Scotties

When I was a boy, I had a Scottie. He was the bravest dog that I have ever seen, to this day. He would tackle any varmint from a rat to a German Shepard. He could intimidate dogs much bigger than him with just a growl and humans too.

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Old March 19, 2005, 12:42 AM   #44
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Okay, this is where the TFL team comes in handy. I have a few pics and such to show with a doc statement (how do I do that?) and to see if I am going to be spending money that I've saved for a year, to get:

First, the email from the breeder:

Quote:
I have a male from a Jan 6th litter. he is a fine little guy, was the largest in the litter. he will probably top out at about 16-17 lbs when grown. he is very sweet and playful. I am in Elmira. he is $400. I will attach some pictures. also a copy of my contract which shows you my health guarantees. let me know if you're interested.
As you can see, the pup is $400 bucks.

Second, the pics (I don't know how they will show):

And the third is the contract, edited to protect names and other info:

Pot O’Gold Schipperkes

Purchase Agreement
A. This is an agreement to purchase an AKC registered puppy from the breeder whose name appears above. If a health certificate is requested (additional $45 dollars), the breeder has agreed to have this puppy inspected by a licensed doctor of Veterinary Medicine prior to the release of this puppy to his/her new family

B. Unless otherwise agreed upon, this puppy will have received at least one vaccination prior to transfer to his/her new home and will have been medicated at least once with oral wormer medication. (Details of vaccination and wormer given will be provided when puppy is delivered.)

C. Guarantees: The breeder guarantees this puppy for 1 year from the date of purchase to be free from genetic or birth defects that affect the life, or quality of life, of the dog. In the event of a defect, the breeder reserves the right to have the dog checked by a Veterinarian of her own choosing. If confirmed, the dog can either be returned to the breeder for replacement or cash refund OR another dog can be requested and the original dog kept. If a replacement puppy is given, no further cash refund will be granted.

D. The purchaser agrees to feed this puppy only premium quality puppy food for a period of 1 year, or as stipulated by a Veterinarian. The purchaser further agrees to have this puppy checked by a Veterinarian of his/her own choosing within 1 week of delivery, and agrees to schedule any recommended vaccinations as stipulated by the doctor. Finally, the purchaser agrees to love this dog without condition and be patient during house-training and teething.



Name of Puppy: One Male Puppy

Sire Name: _ Lucky Leo the Lion ____ Dam Name: _Muffy & Toughie’s Lucy Loo _

Full Purchase Price: _ Male $400__
Estimated Delivery date: _ March 2005__
By signing below you are indicating your desire to enter into this contract for the purpose of purchasing a pure bred Schipperke puppy. You are further indicating that you understand and agree to the terms as stipulated above.





Cochran Schipperke Contract Page 1 3/18/2005
If at any time after you purchase or agree to purchase this puppy you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at the e-mail address, or telephone number listed above. A puppy is a lifetime commitment, purchase wisely!


As part of this agreement, the purchaser agrees to all of the following: (please initial each)
1. The purchaser agrees to continue all vaccinations and health check-ups as recommended by a
Veterinarian. __________
2. This dog will only be bred to AKC registered Schipperkes of excellent quality or potential in an effort to preserve the integrity of the breed. __________
3. It is agreed that any additional charges associated with the delivery of this puppy to the purchaser will be the responsibility of the purchaser, including but not limited to freight charges, kennel, and health certificate fees. __________

ADDENDUM: Breeder agrees to hold puppy of Purchaser’s choice with $100 deposit. Purchaser understands that puppy may be chosen in order of deposit received.

I agree to the terms and conditions as stipulated in the above contract addendum.

Breeder: __Catherine E. Cochran____ Date:__ 03-18-2005___



Purchaser:__________________________ Date:__________________

Purchaser:__________________________ Date:__________________

Address:____________________________________________________

Phone:_____________________________



I'm very new to this, so please, if you have experiece I need advice. Still looking at other breeds.

Pics attached

Wayne

Something that I have to include from the email on pic 2: PS. the side body view is complete with some dirt he picked up while playing outside. all of the pix are of the same male. he is 10 weeks old now.
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Old March 19, 2005, 01:00 AM   #45
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The contract is somewhat more informal than is usual, but otherwise doesn't stipulate anything that is atypical of these things. The usual guarantee is for 2 years, as a year is not enough time for most stuff to show up. The replacement policy is generous. As far as the pics go, unless the dog has extra/missing limbs, they don't tell much, as ALL PUPPIES ARE CUTE. The parents are the pics you want. Have they done anything of note? The parents should've proven themselves in some way that can be verified, otherwise this is backyard breeding by another name. Otherwise, it looks good.

AK
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Old March 19, 2005, 01:10 AM   #46
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Sorry, didn't wish to interrupt my last reply... the Mini-Dachshund, anyone have leads on that breed and cost?

AK, thanks for your advice, you don't know how much your questions and directness have helped me with my choices. I thank you for that (I hope that FirstFreedom is getting closer to his choice for a hunting dog/guard dog as I've gotten here).

I've had many great replies here, for that I really appreciate the time that everyone took. I am still looking at a few other breeds that were mentioned but the post above and my wishing to get more information has narrowed it down to the Schipperke and the Mini-Dachshund as the main runners.

The limits or cons of the breeds that I've chosen consists of the Schipperke "blowing" out their coats and the Dachshund (mini) doing great damage to ankles and lower legs. I can live with both.

Now, deciding on a pure bred dog and the money involved (why? I don't care what papers it has, I just want a good working dog that covers my bases) is something new to me. I love mutts, will always love them but due to the humane (ya right) regs and such, I have chosen to go this route.

You know, that damn little thing looks so cute, little bear (not original) is the name if I get him (my previous post).

And if I get a mini-Dachshund... Oscar (not original, you know, Oscar meyer weiner deal, so shoot me ).

I've never been this excited in a decision since my first and other guns that I've bought. I'm actually getting emotional over pictures and thoughts and am dreaming about the years to come.

This don't seem right, so disreguard the post under "I have chosen to go this route"

Wayne
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Old March 19, 2005, 01:43 AM   #47
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Okay, from the emails and the pics, and all that, I kind of, no, I stole, the questions from a member here to see what I could find. My email to the breeder:

Quote:
I've read on the net that the usual guarantee is for 2 years, as a year is not enough time for most stuff to show up. But I will admit that the replacement policy is generous. As far as the pics go, they were small and kind of blury but I did like what I saw but wish to have better pictures. Can I get pictures of the parents? Do you have anything that I can view as to the parents, things that they have done or awards. I am very interested in the pup. All I ask is this, is the pup in good enough shape, genetic and otherwise able to be a dog that you would use to breed with in the future if need be?

The reason that I ask is that the dog will be local (as in within the state) and I will be open to allowing you to carry on his line with a small kickback of funds and in a way this will pay my price for him (and that is not a thought or why I want the pup, but after looking on the net about pure breeds I feel that we can work together).

Honestly, I just want a good friend and a watch/guard dog and the breed fits me to a tee. Your contract does state that I must only breed with pure breeds and you will be the only one that I know that has them. So if the dog/pup is able to carry on the line, then your pups are the only ones that I will know.

Thanks for tolerating my questions. I am new at AKC and pure breeds and I am getting information and questions to ask you from another party. I really don't care about AKC and papers and breeding and such, I just want a pup that will have the assets that I want and the Schipperke fits the bill.

Wayne
Yes, I know that I won't get a reply, but hell, it's $400 bucks and I'm not made of money (but I really like the things that I've read).

Wayne
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Old March 19, 2005, 11:32 AM   #48
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Yet another vote for the mini dachshund. Doxies are hunting dog, they hunt badgers, so they are inherently good at decting noises and have great "situational awareness". They are very protective of their owner and home. They are loud too, especially for how small they are. My doxie barks at everything that moves outside.
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Old March 19, 2005, 02:45 PM   #49
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Consider a standard Dachsie instead of a Mini. They grow to 20-25 pounds, whereas a Mini only reaches 10-15. Standards are a little less squirrelly than the Minis, their bark sounds awhole lot more serious, and they are just as easy to take care of.
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Old March 19, 2005, 03:46 PM   #50
USP45usp
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Marko, I will do so. I am taking my time, as Dr. Max suggusted, on my decision. When I was a kid, the pets that my parents got just "showed up" and my precious Georgie (my kittycat) was just love at first sight (got her from a society that got ferel and abandoned animals, saved them, and then adopted them out).

I will be going on April 3rd to look at the Schipperke pup (if still available). I am also calling around about the mini- dachshund and with Marko's suggestion will be looking and asking about full sized.

I didn't realize just how much time and effort that one goes through to find the dog (or cat) that they want. I am grateful for FirstFreedom for his post on the hunting dogs that got me to think about making my post. I am also very grateful to the membership of TFL for their replies and input into the post.

I may, or may not, get the pup on April 3rd (just going to look) but when I do get a pup, either the Schipperke, the dachshund or another, all my friends here will be the first to view the pictures.

Thank you again.

Wayne
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