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Old March 16, 2005, 11:19 PM   #1
redhawk41
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Loading for .41 mag

I've got a few loads i will be working on for my redhawk .41 mag, 5.5":

Bullets:
210 gr speer gold dot
215 gr cast SWC
265 gr gas check LBT

Powders:
AA#9
W231
W296

Usage:
210 gr GD and AA#9 for accurate hunting load
215 gr SWC and W231 for target load
265 gr LBT and W296 for backup bear medicine

Does anyone out there give a hoot?
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Old March 16, 2005, 11:30 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
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231 is good for light to moderate loads with primarily lead bullets. I burn a lot of it in my Model 58.

AA 9 and 296 are pretty similar, and will give you the full-bore butt thumping power loads that the .41 Mag. does so well. Lead bullets with these powders really isn't recommended unless they're extremely hard, or have gas checks.

I've found that AA 7 is also an excellent powder for .41 Mag., as well as 10mm. It's only drawback is that it is extremely fine, and can leak through many powder measures.
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Old March 17, 2005, 06:09 AM   #3
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tested in my 5.5" ss Redhawk

I found AA9 to give the best accuracy at higher velocities, but it's not for the fastest.
W296 worked well.
H110 worked a bit better, with highest velocities still balancing with decent accuracy.
For medium loads I found (once again) HS6 to be extremely accurate with very low deviations.
I use Universal Clays for my mediums; little less speed, very clean, economical, easy-metering.

And don't discount Alliant Power Pistol in the medium range.
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:41 AM   #4
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I started with, and stuck with, Elmer's load of 20.0 grains of 2400 and a cast 220 grain SWC. Like WESHOOT2 said, HS6 is a fantastic mid to upper mid-range powder, and I've had great luck with it in a wide range of calibers.
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:53 AM   #5
redhawk41
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hey, thanks guys. good thing i got small containers of the various powders, it sounds like i may have a few more to try out!

the W231 and the 215 gr cast sounds like it should be a pretty good medium target load. i got the W231 to load .45 acp, with the additional benefit of lower velocity .41 mag loads.

Quote:
Lead bullets with these powders really isn't recommended unless they're extremely hard, or have gas checks.
if this because of bore leading? i noticed that my bore was a little harder to clean after using the AA#9 with 215 gr cast.

WESHOOT2, so you had better results with the H110 compared to the W296? i will definitely give the H110 a try for the full house loads.

Quote:
It's only drawback is that it is extremely fine, and can leak through many powder measures.
i have the same problem with the AA#9 in my lee perfect powder measure. i gave up on it and just drop it by hand onto the scale. powder was going EVERYWHERE.
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Old March 19, 2005, 07:17 AM   #6
WESHOOT2
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H110, W296

These two powders are very interesting, and I use them both when working up hotties in the +.400" bores.

Very careful testing required; one will always do better than the other, whether it be lower deviations, better accuracy, or higher speed.

In the 41 I found through my gun that H110 was 'the one'; your results may vary.


(And don't forget to throw Vihta's N110 into the mix.....)
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Old March 19, 2005, 09:50 AM   #7
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loading for the .41 magnum

I have had a .41 Magnum around almost from it's begenning.
The lowwing are for my 657 S&W's:
I have 3 loads that are used for Jacketed, Plated and Cast bullets.
17.5 grains of 2400 in either 210 or 220 grain[s].
8.0 grains of Unique [Duplicates the "old police load"].
5.0 grains of Unique [My PPC load].
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Old March 19, 2005, 10:11 AM   #8
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"H110, W296 These two powders are very interesting, and I use them both when working up hotties in the +.400" bores."

Uh, Westshoot?

I hate to tell you this, but they're the exact same powder. Made in the same facility on the same production line. The labels reflect who bought the batch.

I always thought that they were slightly different, different deterrent coatings and the such, but apparently not.

Any differences in performance are probably just cannister/lot variations.
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Old March 19, 2005, 10:32 AM   #9
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W295

Yes, I 'know', but I blend my powders to aid elimination of lot-to-lot variations, and over my chrono through my guns there is measurable significant difference between the two.
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Old March 19, 2005, 05:36 PM   #10
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WESHOOT2, What did you decide on the pressure peak debate at the other forum?
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Old March 20, 2005, 12:38 AM   #11
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Kilroy ain't here?

I decided not to continue (much), because I am not on the 'net to disrupt belief systems; know what I mean?

But I have a few ideas.........peak pressure, time to pressure, maximum pressure, mean pressure, dwell, blah blah blah.

Did it blow up my (or your) gun?
Did it hit where I aimed?
Did it go fast enough?
Did the bullet accomplish the work I wanted?

Is that the debate of which you speak?
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Old March 20, 2005, 09:20 AM   #12
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Sounds like that was a fun thread.

How about a recap?
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Old March 20, 2005, 09:37 AM   #13
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same old story, different subject

http://www.rugerforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/001148.html


cmj = Kilroy = suspended learning capacity (not canceled, just dormant, ay?), confused belief system, possible opportunity to sway towards more correct thinking, or educate.



I been wrong before.........
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Old March 20, 2005, 02:34 PM   #14
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I found it to be entertaining myself, since there seems to be an abundance of "experts" that really have little more to do than flex their imagined prowess of knowledge. Disruption is a drag, but sometimes necessary to halt the continued spread of misconception.

Dislodging the bullet from its case requires 10,000 PSI and that is science from H.P. White labarotories, by Physicists rather than engineers. The point is, while some may see it as blahblahblah, others may find it useful in altering loads to a specific barrel length for optimum performance. Accurate #9 has proven to be an excellent powder for the .41 Magnum and I wouldn't argue with the use of H-110, or W-296, but understanding the blahblahblah, might shed some light on the fact that the burn geometery of #9 is about perfect for the .41 Magnum with barrel lengths of 6-7.5". Accurate's 4100 could also be a great choice. However, with barrels shorter than 6", I would move up in speed a little bit with a very slightly faster burner than #9 and VV N105 is a good place to start. Blue Dot and #7 are very solid choices as well.
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Old March 20, 2005, 04:01 PM   #15
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So, Wes...

Did you learn anything from Kilroy, or not?

OK, I just learned something...

From Kilroy...

"the underdesign of the fire sprinkler system in the Twin Towers, unfortunately exposed on 911."

I've learned that he's a bung hole. The only sprinkler system that could have dealt with that is God taking a whiz.
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Old March 21, 2005, 05:52 AM   #16
WESHOOT2
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barrel of laughs

I learnt that I spell purty good.

I also learnt that AA9 is slower than AA7, so that means if I invert the multiplier I get an extra 700fps.

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Old March 21, 2005, 10:28 AM   #17
Mike Irwin
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"I learnt that I spell purty good."

Yeah, but yer grammer sux.

Everyone knows that the past predicate popscicle of leerned is lurnt.
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Old March 21, 2005, 10:44 AM   #18
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Dislodging the bullet from its case requires 10,000 PSI and that is science from H.P. White labarotories

That didn't sound right, so I resized a .45acp case, seated and taper crimped a bullet in it, inserted it in a 1911 barrel, cranked my 2 stage air pump up to 175 psi, applied a blow gun nozzle to the primer pocket, and easily unseated the bullet with a mere 175 psi. It stopped when it hit the rifling, of course, but that is science from Jbar's shop. A primer alone can dislodge a bullet, and it certainly doesn't generate anywhere near 10,000 psi, and probably not more than one or two hundred psi, tops.
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Old March 21, 2005, 11:45 AM   #19
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Ah, but are you a physicist?
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Old March 21, 2005, 12:23 PM   #20
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No, but he did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
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Old March 21, 2005, 03:36 PM   #21
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Jbar4Ranch, you got me on a technicality, I should have typed that as 10,000 PSI of Gas Pressure, since H.P. White conducted the test as it relates to combustion, where by the time the bullet seperates from the case, 10,000 PSI or less of gas pressure has developed from combustion. Given the the topic of the debate, I thought that would be a given, But I admire your werewithal to conduct your own test in pneumatic pressure, even if it doesn't have any relevance.

The point of all this is to show that peak pressure can not take place at the cylinder of a revolver and understanding peak pressure and pressure curves will help to make a more informed choice on powder selection in regard to barrel length. WeShoot2 was with the school of thought that felt that peak pressure occured at the cylinder, but when the fire got hot he bugged out. I am glad he posted a link to the thread though, as it bears evidence to the facts.

Concerning the sprinkler system at the Twin Towers: The original building specification did call for the possibility of an off course 707 from JFK loaded with jet fuel striking a Tower. The architect's and engineers that designed the WTC and all the engineers that reviewed the plans felt that the Fire protection system was adequate to meet that specification, even though it was not even adequate to extinguish a conventional fire on the higher floors of either Tower. They didn't like pressure data either it would seem, or maybe it was just beyond their scope. I think God had in fact took a wizz on the whole thing previously anyway with that tower of Babel thing, he took a wizz on man confusing intelligence with arrogance.
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Old March 21, 2005, 04:22 PM   #22
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Holiday Inn Express, LOL!

There's probably a lot of us that don't understand psi as it relates to combustion. If I understand this somewhat correctly, the psi rating that the labs use is somehow related to gas expansion at a specific point or time very early in the combustion process, or, more specifically, a psi measurement relating to the maximum velocity of a pressure wave derived at a known time or point in the rate of expansion or combustion...?
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Old March 21, 2005, 06:36 PM   #23
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In the rate of combustion! You are well on your way, Sir. This relationship can be affected by the burn rate geometery of a given powder. What started all of this was based on a 2.5" barrelled Ruger SRH Alaskan revolver and previous to that the best powder for .357 magnum loads in a 3" Ruger SP-101. Continued recommendations for H-110, W-296 and 2400, stuck in my craw, so when I gave a tried and true oppinion I had some contention from WESHOOT2 and a couple of engineers at Ruger Forum. What I was trying to point out was that the velocity loss of shorter barrelled revolvers could be minimized by selecting slightly faster powders with pressure peaks that would still achieve magnum velocity without the necessary loss of velocity that you will get with slower burning magnum powders. WESHOOT2 stated that pressure peak occured at the cylinder and two self announced engineers took a rather condescening position to my statements and tried to prove the theory. I got booted before I could offer the documented evidence from H.P. White laboratories. Of course, I was waiting for the full extension of the rope.

A LIMITED COMPARISON OF THE CRUSHER AND PIEZO SYSTEMS, in the Lyman manual will explain this thoroughly and while my reading comprehension and even intellectual skills were being called into question, it was apparent that I was the only person in the debate that was even aware of it. I issued a challenge of proof by suggesting to a new reloader to try AA#7 in the 3" SP-101, but was kicked off the forum before the results came in with the thread: AA#7 .357 Magnum Load Update, that now, I can't even respond to, but the shooters satisfaction is rewarding enough for me.

I have only been doing the internet gun forum thing for about a year. I have been studying ballistics involved with reloading for about 25 and some of the bigger forums have one thing in common. Guys that become self deluded by the number of posts they put up equating useful knowledge and there are at least 2 examples of them on this thread and I'll leave it at that. I was Kilroy at Ruger Forum, but I never heated a battle and then tucked tail and ran and as Sturm here, I won't either. I will be very weary of those who resort to name calling, because maybe they thought I wouldn't come out of the closet, so there it is, and be assured my weary eyes are keen.

Going back to the original question raised by Redhawk41, because my first .41 magnum handloads were developed in a 5.5" Redhawk, Try #9, but for a little less velocity and maybe better accuracy try #7, or use the old load that I used with the Hornady 210 gr. JHP and Blue Dot. The JHP is gone but the XTP will work as well I'm sure, as would the SPEER 210 gr. Gold Dot, but since the old load generated 37,000 CUP which would be on the threshold of the current SAAMI 40,000 PSI specification, I will abide by the moderators suggestions and not list it because of the possible pressure differences using the different bullets. but I will say it was an accurate load in my Redhawk. I will also say that W-231 and magnum cases are not for me!
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Old March 21, 2005, 07:29 PM   #24
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Sometimes I scare myself. Another refugee from the Village of the Damned, eh? I left there too, shortly after Parabellum took over. Too bad, really, it used to be a nice board, and could be again if it were upgraded from the Stone Age and moderated more sensibly.
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Old March 21, 2005, 07:42 PM   #25
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And as typical with his forums, the long standing instigators, keep right on doing their thing. I like this forum very much and will try as hard as possible to stick around, but guys with much more keyboard time than shooting and reloading time that have nothing better to do than condescend will soon find that I am their HUCKLEBERRY!
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