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Old March 16, 2005, 09:47 PM   #1
USP45usp
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Home Defense (HD) and Personal Defense (PD)

I was just wondering what the members thought about my choices and plans (yeah, I know, plans are planned and then they don't work ) for Home Defense setup and Personal Defense setup:

Home Defense: First, some background. I live in the country with the nearest house technically being right next door (my uncle) but all the others being a safe distance and not in line, with mine. So, in deciding my HD plan and guns I've come up with:

Kimber 1911 .45 or HK USP .45 (I love them both so I let each sit sentry every other week) on night stand.

Kimber/HK to shotgun 12ga and bedroom door. Lock bedroom door (only has a deadbolt, there are no handles or knobs on it) and then put down .45 and rack 12ga shotgun.

(now, I have to intervine to give more information. This house is old and the doors are real. As in, they are solid doors. Shotgun may, or may not punch through. And also, the bedroom door opens OUT, not in so if they are kicking on it to get in, I have the benefit of the door hitting the frame).

So, if they decide to give up trying to get in (I'm already on cell to 911) then I just wait for the LEO's. If they decide to keep on trying then I load up the AR-15 and then fire through the door and hopefully kill the SOB (hey, if they keep on trying then I know that they wish to kill me and now it's a fear of death thing).

On Personal Defense: I either carry the Kimber or the HK. Yes, it took some time and effort to find the right rigs in which to carry them and I'm still looking for better setups (I'm 150lbs and have no meat (or muscle) on my body ). I have carried smaller guns in the past and my BUG (if I carry it, as with any mechanical device, I don't have 100% trust in them) is a .44 Special which I think can do the job.

Now, I know that everyone has their own setup for HD and PD. I am very interested in knowing what they are.

And I also realize that many can't afford the AR or the HK or the Kimber (and it's taken me over 14/15 years in which to get them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone or what they can afford or have) and have their own style of defense. I'm interested in knowing.

And I know that many can't, because of frame of body or other factors, carry a full sized .45, and the weight of, everyday. So I wonder what plan that you've made for yourself for PD.

And lastly, if this is a "beat the poor dead horse to death" then please tell and I will understand and ask for removal.

Wayne
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Old March 16, 2005, 10:03 PM   #2
WillBrayjr
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If I could afford it, I would buy one of Paul Piper's GE M134A bb gatling guns in 4.5mm and crank it up to 6,000rpm at 600FPS.

In reality, I keep the door blocked with an rechargable airsoft claymore mine filled with broken glass instead of 6mm bbs (The door is in a hallway). The window is covered by a board of long nails. Followed by a 12ga Remington 870.
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Old March 17, 2005, 12:26 AM   #3
BillCA
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USP45usp

Seems like a fairly sensible plan. Use the .45 to fall back to gain the shotgun or the AR. A couple of queries come to mind, however;

1. Why "put down" the .45 to get the shotgun? Presuming you're not wearing sweats or elastic waistband pants, why not retain possession of the short gun while the 12-bore is used?

2. With your solid-wood doors, if you think a 12 gauge with buckshot won't penetrate it from 12 feet, why do you assume a .223 bullet will penentrate the wood?

3. Flashlight - Xeon bulbed preferred. Where is yours? Unless you live alone and a neat housekeeper things can move around, especially cell phones, shoes, slippers, etc. And you can use the bright beam to momentarily blind someone in near darkness.

4. Others in the house? What are your plans to move them to your safest room?

5. Presuming you barricade in your bedroom (1st floor or 2nd?) but the BG(s) don't bother you except to prowl the rest of the house. Your cell phone call results in rapid PD response. How do you let the cops in (presuming the BG didn't crash the front door)?
A) I read a great idea somewhere - make a simple sketch map of the interior of the house. Roll up and insert into a plastic tube with "House Map" showing. Connect this to a key ring with a spare house key(s) and one of those $1.25 chemical light sticks. When cops are arriving, activate light stick and tell 911 operator the color and what window you'll toss it out of. This allows cops to find map & keys easily and to ID the "good guy" in his room.
B) Go to a discount store like Ross/Marshalls/etc and buy a long cheap scarf in a bright or light color. Tie this to the key ring instead of the lightstick.
C) Tell the cops to wait outside with body bags and a carpet shampoo machine.

6) Most importantly, what to do if the point of entry is from outside into your bedroom "safe room"?
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Old March 17, 2005, 02:23 AM   #4
sarmstrong806
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I keep my GP-100 loaded with .38 spl Hydra-Shok's in a handprint safe on the nightstand. I also keep a Surefire G2 Nitrolon flashlight, a Spyderco knife, and a 2 speed loaders on the other shelf.

Before I go to sleep I put my cell phone which is programmed to dial 911 by holding 9 in the safe.

I'm going to be adding a deadbolt to my bedroom door soon.

For PD I'm still waiting on my CHL to be approved. Once I get it I will have a 9mm in the truck and a .380 or 9mm pocket gun for ocassional carry. Since I got to a public University I won't be able to carry a majority of the time.


Edited: Added PD
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Old March 17, 2005, 06:35 AM   #5
ATW525
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For home defense I currently have a 6" Highway Patrolman loaded with .357 JSPs near the door. I also have a WASR-10 with 40 rounds of 7.62x39 near this computer, just need to chamber a round and it's ready to go. Of course I want to pick up a 12 ga someday to replace the WASR-10 in the home defense role, since I don't want to wipe out my neighbors.
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:19 AM   #6
USP45usp
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Bill, GREAT questions:

1. Why "put down" the .45 to get the shotgun? Presuming you're not wearing sweats or elastic waistband pants, why not retain possession of the short gun while the 12-bore is used?

I don't have the shotgun chambered and it's a pump. If I get to the door and lock it (which I can do quickly) then I'm looking at real close and personal range and the shotgun should (would) do the job. Pistol will be within reach if I need it but I have 7 shells in the shotgun and shouldn't need it.

2. With your solid-wood doors, if you think a 12 gauge with buckshot won't penetrate it from 12 feet, why do you assume a .223 bullet will penentrate the wood?

I don't but when my grandfather was alive (many, many years ago) he managed to put a .22 mag through the door so I figure that the .223 should work since it is going faster but I don't really know and I'm not willing to test it out

3. Flashlight - Xeon bulbed preferred. Where is yours? Unless you live alone and a neat housekeeper things can move around, especially cell phones, shoes, slippers, etc. And you can use the bright beam to momentarily blind someone in near darkness.

I forgot about this. I have a 4 D-Cell Mag light. Not only for use to see but can double as a club. I don't plan on walking through the house.

4. Others in the house? What are your plans to move them to your safest room?

No others but a cat and she's in the room with me at night. If she does get out before I get to the door then I feel sorry for the intruder (yes, she does attack).

5. Presuming you barricade in your bedroom (1st floor or 2nd?) but the BG(s) don't bother you except to prowl the rest of the house. Your cell phone call results in rapid PD response. How do you let the cops in (presuming the BG didn't crash the front door)?

1st Floor. I can open the window and hand the keys to the police but I also have a key lock box in a hidden place on the house. It doens't look like a lock box. I can tell the LEO's the combo (can change it afterward).

The window can be covered in case the intruders are multiple, I have clear sight of both the door and the window from my cover. My cover consists of a very old and very heavy (thick wood) dresser.

I will admit that I don't have all the answers, that is why I am so interested in what others have done. I have some advantages (like real solid doors) but some disadvantages like window that are old and easily broken . Those are going to be replaced this summer.

Also, I have to get to the bedroom door. I usually come awake quickly at the sound of things in the house but I can't rely on that. The guns both have night sights and I've practiced grabbing it. I also have the 4-D mag. right at my hand to I can use it like a club.

I do need to get an inexpensive alarm system for the windows and the front/back door as well as maybe start looking into getting a small "yippy" dog (don't have the room in the house or outside for a medium or large sized dog and my uncle already has two so that narrows down what I can get and have without overcrowding at the moment).

Wayne

*Forgot to add: I also have a motion detection light over my front door. I can't see the back yard from my room so I don't have one back there.

Last edited by USP45usp; March 17, 2005 at 11:24 AM. Reason: To add
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Old March 17, 2005, 01:23 PM   #7
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If there are experts here on the topic, I'm certainly not one of them, but when you shut your door after hearing someone come in, you need to make SURE it isn't someone you know (meaning a "friendly"). If you just start blazing away, it would be tragic to open the door and find a drunken, dying family member or friend on the floor. Drunken people forget to knock sometimes.

Massad Ayoob's book mentions that very thing, and it's a biggie.
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Old March 17, 2005, 06:21 PM   #8
chris in va
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I like the idea of having a swing-out bedroom door with deadbolt. I'll have to remember that when I get my new house.

You guys ever watch It Takes a Thief? They have some really interesting ideas for home security, even if I don't completely agree with some of them.

My problem though is the new house is a split-level with me in the lower, friend and her daughter upstairs in separate rooms. I'm not really sure how to do a 'safe room' situation with that house.
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Old March 17, 2005, 09:10 PM   #9
tokarevman
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My method for HD is if i here the BG busting in down stairs i would get up get my shotgun out from under the bed stoke a round in it and get wife my makarov out of the nightstand and on the phone to cops"the phone is on her side". This all takes around 4 seconds with BG in the hous it could take longer. My shot gun has a light on it so i would turn it on and stand at the top of the stairs and state that i had a gun and if i see you, You are gona get shot. Hopefully he would run away if he didnt and i saw him he is gona get shot in the head, my gun paterns realy good with bucks shot "about the size of a mans head" and i very profeciant with a scatergun i shoot a minimum a case a week wether it be skeet, sporting clays.
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Old March 17, 2005, 09:34 PM   #10
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my home defense.

have the remington 870P loaded cruiser ready by my bed at night, along w/ a surefire light, on the nightstand is a wilson CQB 1911 in condtion #1 (my father gave it to me)

i have 2 dead bolts on the door...but i need to upgrade it to a real wooden door.

have a cellphone on the nightstand as well for 911

have a alarm to alert me to any windows breaking but the dogs will do that well before. a beagle and ridgeback keep an eye on things at night, the beagle prefers to sleep by the front door and will alert me to barking, the ridgeback sleeps with me...and will attack if need be.

my mother is in the house and my room is the "safe" room she'll lock herself in the walk in closet armed w/ her .357 ruger GP-100

PD: not old enough....only 18.

i think we have things covered...sure hope so.

oh and you cant break into my windows in the "safe" room as they have storm shutters on them that are steel....so were safe in that room i would hope.

anyone want to critque my plan?

its welcome.

Thanks

Chad
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:41 PM   #11
BillCA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USP45usp
I do need to get an inexpensive alarm system for the windows and the front/back door as well as maybe start looking into getting a small "yippy" dog
You can buy the small entrypoint alarm units made by First Alert at Home Depot and the like for about $9.99 per four units. These are battery run units that use the standard magnetic switch technology that's been around for years. Mount the alarm unit on a door/window frame and the magnetic part on the door/window. Moving the two parts away from each other triggers the alarm. The down side is that you have to manually switch on/off each unit. You can, if desired, use the sticky tape to mount the alarm unit to the window frame. Since I have sliding windows and 2 sliding glass doors, during the summer it's better to use velcro so you can position the door part way open for ventilation but allow it to trigger if it's opened enough for a person to enter. (or shift it to alarm the screen door). Not as loud as a professional system but for some places this is will work fine.

Comments for others;
I'd be sure to have some way of knowing that the house has been entered (alarm, dogs, a tin can with a dozen marbles, whatever). Once that is noticed, prepare for an intruder. I live alone so meeting anyone in the house besides my shadow will result in loud noises.

I'm less worried about the crashing front door than I am about someone entering the home by stealth. Especially in warm weather where entry points are more of an opportunity.
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:37 PM   #12
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I live in a long one story ranch house with lots of sliding glass doors facing the back. I know this bites tactically, but I do have an 80 lb. Akita covering the back. I have a decent alarm system with contact sensors on all entry points plus screen alarms which go off if pushed in or cut. I keep either the P245 or P229 in the night stand and my wifie has the GP 100 next to the bed frame (I hope she doesn't sleep shoot! ) I used to have the 870 in the closet loaded with progressively heavier rounds (bird shot, buck shot, slugs).

We were broken into when we first got married and we lost a LOT of stuff. Her friggin engagement ring, my wedding ring, wedding jewelry, cash and my P228 and P229. I didn't check if the safe was closed properly and I was too lazy to double lock it with the push button (Sentry Fire Safe). Make sure you use the darn push button since it will only engage if the handle is in the fully closed position. Also, check your darn safes.

Anyways, we moved pretty quick since my wife was too scared to go home alone and ended up waiting for me to get off from my job (after working a full day herself) at night to go home together. I set up that house like Fort Knox. There were contact sensors on all doors and windows, crisscrossing motion sensors, glass break sensors, battery backup, and cellular backup in case someone cut the phone line. The crazy thing is since we moved into a new community and the other side of the development was still under construction, there were at least half a dozen break ins in the area. The dog covered all the windows in the back and on the side. I had the Sig in the night stand and the wifie and the GP 100 and we had the shotgun behind the dresser. I also stored the rest of my guns in the closet so I'd say I was pretty heavily armed.

I just told my wife to grab the shotgun if she hears anything weird or if the alarm goes off. The sound of a 12 guage getting racked is probably a good enough reason to leave for most bad guys. I told her to brace the shotgun on the bed for support and cover since she would probably be too nervous to hold it steady. I instructed her to yell that she has a gun and that anyone going through the bedroom door would be shot. I just hope she won't need to get to the slugs!
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
In reality, I keep the door blocked with an rechargable airsoft claymore mine filled with broken glass instead of 6mm bbs (The door is in a hallway). The window is covered by a board of long nails. Followed by a 12ga Remington 870.
I have to ask: What the heck is a "rechargable airsoft claymore mine"?
It sounds interesting.

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Old March 18, 2005, 12:06 AM   #14
Stiletto
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^^^

Yeah, about the gas-pressure mine w/ glass in it...wouldn't it present a bit of a legal problem in case it was ever discharged at someone?
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Old March 18, 2005, 08:19 AM   #15
WillBrayjr
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Here's a review link on the claymore:
www.renegaderecon.com/article_details.php?id=62
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Old March 18, 2005, 11:49 AM   #16
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frangile bullets

I would suggest frangile bullets so they stop after hitting a intruder and don't overpenatrate and harm your family or other innocents. Check out www.extremeshockusa.com and ww.horady.com for the tap. for personal defense line, I like hydroshocks by federal also they make plywood snap out of my marlin 1984C 357mag lever 9 shot.
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Old April 8, 2005, 12:01 PM   #17
branham91
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I own a duplex in which I rent out half and live in the other. I have had some shady clients so I decided to beef up my home protection. I bought a sentry safe from walmart that is bolted to my wall. Also installed a motion security light for the backdoors. I went to lowes ($20)and bought an indoor motion sensor that I keep positioned to detect the hallway leading to my bedroom. You can set in for chime so as soon as motion is detected it lets off an immediate chime (loud). That will give you time to grab my Ruger GP 100 off the nightstand. I also have a floor lamp that is right beside my bed that i can switch on and it faces my bedroom entrance. Have light sticks that i can place on my window seal for the cops. Keep a cell phone by the bed with a mossberg 500 shotgun #4 shot.
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Old April 8, 2005, 12:34 PM   #18
USP45usp
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I can't use the "claymore" here. It would be considered a "mantrap" which is illegal in Oregon .

Wayne
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Old April 8, 2005, 01:18 PM   #19
WillBrayjr
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You can always use a paintball landmine to mark them for easy identification. I stopped when I learned it was illegal. The painball landmine is perfectly legal since it doesn't cause any harm.
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Old April 8, 2005, 02:41 PM   #20
USP45usp
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WillBrayjr,

Hmmmm, and use glow in the dark paint balls.... talk about "painting" your target .

Wayne
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Old April 8, 2005, 03:08 PM   #21
WillBrayjr
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I'm not aware of paintball mines that actually use paintballs. The Paintball Master Mine uses a Venom Pwder Paint Pre-mix, not paintballs. Since it's not harmful the Master Mine would be great in helping the police. Kinda like Banks using dye packs
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Old April 8, 2005, 03:23 PM   #22
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I've got an MP5A3 from 85 with a surefire grip, (along with many other class IIIs), it has a 30round mag filled, with a 3 mag bracket, so I've got 90 rnds ready for anyone who wants it. All Black Talons, sitting right next to the service radio.

Good luck getting past my deadbolted door and boxer.
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Old April 8, 2005, 03:45 PM   #23
stephen426
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Damn w4klr,

Tell me what neck of the woods you live in so I can stay the hell away from your place. Imagine I mistake your house for mine in a drunken stupor... Not a good thing. If I'm not mistaken, you are in law enforcement right? If not, the use of class 3 weapons may turn a perfectly legal self defense into a manslaughter or even murder case against you. Stick with the basics when it comes to home defense. I saw a good ol fashion pump shotgun should end any attempts just by chambering the first round. If not, you could count on the 6 rounds of 3" magnum 00 shells you have loaded.
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Old April 8, 2005, 04:23 PM   #24
w4klr
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Stephen,

In preparing for home defense, I feel you must prepare for war.

When I see people say that a 6 shot revolver will suffice, who is to say a gang of 10 kids isn't storming your house?

To say that I will unload 30rnds into one person is ridiculous, and on the other hand, regardless, I'd rather be tried by 12, than carried by six.

There are 2 mp5s in my safe, and one semi auto clone.

One MP5 is my personal class III, my MP5 (as much as I'd like for it to be my own) that is loaded with Black Talons, is unfortunately, my department's weapon. The clone is well... a clone.

When it comes to basics, I like to leave the basics to office procedures. When it comes to my life, or my family's, I like the advanced stuff.

My decision to fire is based on a threat to another life is based on the threat one poses to me or my family.

Should a drunkard be banging on my house at night, I will be armed, but shooting a dude armed with a hangover is not my agenda.

SWAT does have its advantages at times, (as long as I'm not talking about the pay )
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Old April 8, 2005, 04:25 PM   #25
USP45usp
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errrr.... w4klr, that's a bit much don't you think?

Nothing against your plan but, well, it does seem abit much. I'll think I will stick with semi-auto pistol, shotgun, rifle combos .

Wayne
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