The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 9, 2005, 08:57 PM   #51
redhawk41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2005
Location: Red Desert
Posts: 752
accident my ...

sorry, but it takes WAY to many premeditated steps for a gun to discharge for it to be an 'accident'. pull the trigger expect the gun to fire, be suprised when it doesn't. kinda like, "sorry dad, i didn't mean to get her pregnant, it was an accident." uh huh

i have a hard time believing this guy is any kind of law enforcement. maybe he stayed at a holiday inn express the night before and got that tshirt as a souvenir.
__________________
{thought cloud}
redhawk41 is offline  
Old March 9, 2005, 09:47 PM   #52
Derius_T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: South West OHIO (boondocks)
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
I wonder what he had in there? Do you suppose it was his defense rounds? I wonder if they were hollow points or target rounds or what...
If you listen closely he tells someone it was an 'AP' round.


I agree it was boneheaded to even HAVE live ammo in that situation, AND that he was extremely negligent in many ways, BUT, it was still an accident.

And yes, it was bad. And yes it was stupid. But I'm honestly suprised at some of your replies. Its nice to know that all of you are SO HIGHLY TRAINED, AND COMPLETELY PERFECT, and TOTALLY IMMUNE to mistakes.
I guess since you belong to a gun forum and can hit thrown nickels fast draw and make pennies, that NOTHING like this could EVER happen to you.... :barf:
Derius_T is offline  
Old March 9, 2005, 09:59 PM   #53
snacktrack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2005
Location: Wilmington DE
Posts: 291
Quote:
i have a hard time believing this guy is any kind of law enforcement. maybe he stayed at a holiday inn express the night before and got that tshirt as a souvenir.
LOL!!!!! thats what I think
__________________
S&W340PD w/ lg-305 CT grips
S&W 1911PD commander w/ CT grips (on order, any day now!!)

Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
My band's website: daughter darling
snacktrack is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 12:29 AM   #54
ODD1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2005
Posts: 11
When I heard him say,
"I am the only one professional enough in this room, that I know of, to carry a GLOCK 40", then boom. I spilled my beer. Now that was funny, a true professional.

All these posts about "and you never made a mistake".
Why no, I never shot myself while teaching gun safety to school children, matter of fact I have yet to shoot myself at all. That would truely be a mistake.

Glad no one got hurt to bad. He took it well.
Not bashing anyone, it sure is funny.
ODD1 is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 03:17 AM   #55
LAK
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 14, 2002
Posts: 2,251
Most certain method to make 100% sure that any chamber is empty is with an open slide and the fifth finger tip thrust into the chamber - or the chamber mouth. A chambered round and your finger will not fit in the chamber at the same time. This works in the dark as well

With a .22, .25 and perhaps a .32 this is not quite so simple. But on some .380s, and most 9x19s on up there is no excuse.
LAK is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 05:36 AM   #56
thelast2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2005
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 118
Just curious if someone has seen this story from any other sources or is that website the only place. Sure seems to me that it could be nothing more than a screenplay that someone thought might be funny. If this actually did happen the guy needs to be relieved of duty for sure for endangering himself and everyone in that room. I cant believe they would even bring live ammo into a demonstration like that. And further more what exactly was the point the guy was trying to make while he is waving the gun around and then slams the slide shut and shoots himself. When I went to school they always told us if we found a gun to not touch it and alert an adult or the authoritys, so why was this guy demonstrating the complete usage of the weapon to include actually shooting himself. Makes all gun owners look bad, the anti's would chew this up because the figure the guy is a LEO he is more proficient with a weapon than a civilian and if a LEO can display this kind of stupidity just imagine what a civilian with less training could do.
__________________
"Genius Has Limitations, Stupidity Does Not"
thelast2 is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 05:48 AM   #57
tyme
Staff
 
Join Date: October 13, 2001
Posts: 3,182
http://www.chinpokomon.com/archives/001022.html
__________________
“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner)
“Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum)
“It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg)
tyme is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 12:34 PM   #58
TheeBadOne
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
originally posted by ffl:
as for a safety on a glock there is none as demostrated by this moron.
Uhm, I offer the following....

Quote:
A venerable 1911 with a thumb and grip safety would have gone off in this situation. He dropped the slide and pulled the trigger. I doubt he would have engaged the safety in that split second in between and his grip would have disengaged the safety.
TheeBadOne is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 02:58 PM   #59
tjhands
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2005
Posts: 1,710
Ya know, I'm just a putz citizen that shoots 75 rounds a week and dry-fire practices alone at home 3X a week, but I BY GOD check the gun more than once EVERY single time I practice. This guy is an officer of the law and doesn't even check his gun before prancing his meaty body and head around in front of a group of CHILDREN??

Incredible, man, just incredible.

How can anyone here say that this guy should NOT be fired? People trusted to enforce our laws and demonstrate gun safety in public schools should be the CREAM of the crop. This was NOT an "accident" caused by bad luck, random uncontrollable events, or fate. This was 110% preventable with the LEAST application of responsibility and maturity. This guy personally F'd up and should be immediately fired.

Like someone else said, in that one instant he created a roomfull of future anti-gun nuts who will never EVER forget that guns are baaaaaaaaad and can't be trusted BY anyone or TO anyone. :barf:

Last edited by tjhands; March 10, 2005 at 03:31 PM.
tjhands is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 03:19 PM   #60
tom650604
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN USA
Posts: 315
Why did he demonstrate with a loaded weapon anyways. Just bring in a different unloaded piece that is not the one you are carrying and then demonstrated.
__________________
(\__/) (\__/) (\__/) (\__/)
(='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=) (='.'=)
(")_(") (")_(")(")_(") (")_(")
tom650604 is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 03:26 PM   #61
FirstFreedom
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A.
Posts: 12,451
Absolutely, y'all are right...this from tyme's link:

Quote:
Witnesses said the gun was pointed at the floor and when he released the slide, one shot fired into the top of his left thigh.
No, no, no, no, NO! It was NOT fired "when" he "released the slide". It was fired AFTER that, when he *pulled the trigger*. neangryasslookingicon:

Quote:
"The kids screamed and started to cry," said Vivian Farmer, who attended the presentation with her 13-year-old nephew.
Hmmm, now that is a little odd, because I could not hear any screaming or crying in the video - maybe it was a sound issue.

Quote:
"Everyone was pretty shaken up," Farmer said. "But the point of gun safety hit home. Unfortunately, the agent had to get shot. But after seeing that, my nephew doesn't want to have anything to do with guns."
Yap, there ya go- some anti-gunners created - thank you, federal tax dollars at work!

LAK, I agree! I am a firm believer in the "pinkie check" (physical inspection), in addition to a visual inspection. Unfortunately, however, this would not have helped in this situation, even with a pinkie check, because the chamber WAS empty. Until he released the slide, that is. You've got to do a visual check, physical check, AFTER RELEASING THE MAG FIRST.
FirstFreedom is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 08:09 PM   #62
yekimak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 198
Is it okay if I point and snicker when I see a DEA agent with dreadlocks and a limp?

I sure as heck don't remember him dropping the mag, and you can hear that it sounded like a round being chambered, and to continue on afterwards, with everyone screaming to stop...egad...Have to give him credit though, I would have whined a bit more after shooting myself I think.
__________________
.-.-.-Why? Because I can.-.-.-
yekimak is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 08:33 PM   #63
ghettopettingzoo
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: Auburn maine
Posts: 141
it was a side arm cops dont need to unload them. I think he got shot and was wairing a vest wel thats what it looked like.
ghettopettingzoo is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 10:13 PM   #64
TheeBadOne
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 1,191
Jeff Cooper once said that there are only two kinds of shooters, those who have had an ND, and those who will have one.
TheeBadOne is offline  
Old March 10, 2005, 11:11 PM   #65
seb5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 477
I agree with that, however he was in a class full of kids. He should never have had a loaded gun if he was going to be showing the kids the weapon. Most people would be even more careful in his circumstances. No excuse.
__________________
Home is where you dig it
seb5 is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 02:37 AM   #66
LAK
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 14, 2002
Posts: 2,251
FirstFreedom,

Yes; there is a sequence to the procedure
LAK is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 03:46 AM   #67
tyme
Staff
 
Join Date: October 13, 2001
Posts: 3,182
Quote:
Have to give him credit though, I would have whined a bit more after shooting myself I think.
You would not have shot yourself, at least not in that situation. Anyone dumb enough to do what that DEA agent did should be deported. Reason: "Too stupid to be an American Citizen." He doesn't deserve credit for anything. He didn't whine because he was too busy maintaining his elitist façade.

It's one thing to have a ND (though it's never good). It's another to have a ND and hit someone (if only yourself). It's yet another to have a ND in a planned event on gun safety in a room full of kids.

What's really intolerable, though, is having an elitist attitude while you have a ND and injure yourself in a classroom full of kids. He's the kind of person I wouldn't trust would learn from his mistake.
__________________
“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner)
“Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum)
“It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg)
tyme is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 07:24 AM   #68
MacLeod
Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2005
Posts: 36
What was he thinking? I was always told 'a gun is always loaded.' I treat it that way, until I have disassembled it. The Anti's are going to have a field day with this.
MacLeod is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 07:56 AM   #69
PaleRyder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2004
Posts: 149
Someone mentioned the kids not looking scared. The whole incident ALMOST looks staged to me.
PaleRyder is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 08:50 AM   #70
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 2,886
I'm just glad he wasn't enough of a dumbass to point it at one of the students and pull the trigger to scare them. Imagine trying to explain that one.

I also thought it was staged or that he loaded it with blanks to make it more dramatic. He does look like one badass mofo though. He took a .40 in the theigh and still carried on with the presentation. I'm sure some part of that was ego or maybe, he is so stupid that there aren't enough brain cells to register the pain.

H eset himself up good for that one though. How profession did he say he was and how well trained and qualified???

The main reason this occured is complacency. He is probably so used to handling firearms that he has lost respect for them. That is when accidents occur.
stephen426 is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 08:52 AM   #71
too many choices!?
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2004
Posts: 371
hmmm, I guess idiocy of the feds is not news worthy.....

This guy needs to be fired and fined.......Simple as that......He pulled the trigger and could have KILLED A CHILD......NONE of us here are perfect, but I bet we are intelligent enough to TRIPLE check the mag is removed and ammo is not present before showing a childs classroom a bunch of deadly weapons......This is like mixing up a king snake(non poisonous) with a coral snake(can be deadly) And then to try and play it off like ' Oh well I shot myself kids thats why YOU shouldn't have a gun" what a tool! He would still be sued for my childs therapy.....
too many choices!? is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 09:37 AM   #72
DeanC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 13, 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7
Quote:
What's really intolerable, though, is having an elitist attitude while you have a ND and injure yourself in a classroom full of kids. He's the kind of person I wouldn't trust would learn from his mistake.
My thoughts exactly! Zero dignity, the man is a cro-magnon. He showed no respect for anyone; the kids or himself. And, he didn't have the humility to admit he screwed up. He tried to turn his mistake into: "You kids watch out!, you see what happened, it could happen to you!"

I don't think this guy should be empowered with the authority over other citizens granted to sworn peace officers.
DeanC is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 09:52 AM   #73
Derius_T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: South West OHIO (boondocks)
Posts: 1,337
I guess I'm done with this thread. The only point I was trying to make is that all of you with the "THAT WOULD NEEEEVER HAPPEN TO ME! I PRACTICE THIS MANY TIMES A WEEK, AM SUPER CAREFUL, SHOOT A BAZILLION ROUNDS, ECT, ECT" attitude worry me a bit.

You are ALL HUMAN, and ALL are capable of a mistake, NO MATTER HOW WELL TRAINED OR CAREFUL YOU ARE. It can happen.

And it seems like karma often makes sure it DOES happen to those who claim it could NEVER happen to them. I'd be EXTRA careful after making that statement.....

Of course some of the super ninja commandos here would never admit it even if they did have an AD or ND.....that would require taking the bayonet out of their teeth.....
Derius_T is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 10:27 AM   #74
ffl
Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2005
Location: Airport Drive Missouri
Posts: 27
rules of safety

as mentioned above he violated all rules of safety. He has now caused a large number of kids to have doubts as to the kind of fun one can have engaged in the shooting sports or hunting. The one girl who claimed she was there said her brother was now afarid to play with guns should be afraid to "play" with guns. Guns are not toys they are tools. Tools used by persons to protect themselves, provide food and have fun. Education is the key to safety and kids are the future of firearms. This does look like a anti-gun video as I have not heard of any new media reports on this video.

As to the previous post about where else this was seen. Packing.org has it listed also.


As for my Springfield 1911A1 45 vs a glock my gun has 3+ safeties and none are in the trigger. And no my gun would not discharge in that situation because I would not have live ammo in the class.
__________________
"Amidst all the baying from gun opponents is the irrefutable fact that there will always be people in our society who refuse to follow any rules and who can never be reasoned with or rehabilitated. There is no doubt that the very thought a potential victim might possess a firearm deters that element of our society that cares nothing about laws or human life but rather understands only one thing -- brute force." Ohio Judge Robert Ruehlman
ffl is offline  
Old March 11, 2005, 10:45 AM   #75
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
When I took a Gunsite course a few years ago, they announced a policy change about NDs. Any ND in a hotel room would result in you being kicked out of the class. They had had enough of them to start getting alarmed.
While the dictionary provides denotation, it does not provide connotation. Calling events like this an accident meets the denotation of the word, but fails to have the stigma that calling this a 'negligent discharge’ carries.
This guy broke a pile of rules. The rules carry many redundancies to try and prevent examples like his. We all do make mistakes, but hopefully not a complete series that can culminate in discharging a gun negligently.
Negligence carries with it a level of responsibility. Actions you have taken (or failed to take) resulted in an event.
This guy needs to go back to Gun Handling 101, and should not be allowed to carry a firearm until he demonstrates a clear understanding of how to operate one.
brickeyee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14183 seconds with 7 queries