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Old March 15, 2005, 09:10 PM   #26
JohnKSa
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By the way, cats don't hunt for fun
What do YOU call it when a well-fed animal kills an animal that isn't threatening it--and then doesn't eat it?
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The hazard in killing a domestic cat, feral or otherwise, is that someone like me might see you do it. Then YOU would become the quarry.
If you ever attack someone because they shot a feral cat, I hope it's me. I'd see it as a wonderful opportunity to get right to the heart of the matter.

See, it's not the cats' fault that they are in the situation they're in. It's the fault of people who let them run free and reproduce at will--strangely enough, these people generally operate under the premise that they are being humane. If people took responsibility for the animals they call their pets, there would be no feral cats. Unfortunately, it's rarely possible to properly punish the people who are really responsible for the feral cat problem.
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Old March 15, 2005, 11:35 PM   #27
Art Eatman
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Er, uh, DR_MAX, one thing about out in the boonies: I'll see you first. I've been at it a whole lot longer.

Hokay:

I won't claim I can track a twelve-point buck back to where he was born, but I'm not shabby at reading sign. When you find a covey of dead quail, cat tracks, and only one quail eaten, you'll figure out that there's more to a cat's killing than pure necessity.

And when Darling Precious kitty-cat exits the door of the "owner's" house, it's instantly a hunter. All you have to do is watch and it's quite obvious, given you know anything at all about an animal's body language.

This is one of those arenas where I don't pay much attention to other people's opinions. I far and away have more trust in what I've learned from watching a whole bunch of critters during the course of many, many decades of wandering in swamps, woods and desert--sometimes hunting, lots of times "just lookin'".

Most folks look, but don't see...

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Old March 16, 2005, 12:39 PM   #28
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An animal that the owner let's run wild is not at falt ,the owner is .it is unfortunete that the animal is the one to suffer the consiquences.as usual the rude incosiderate bastards are a burden to the good polite people and this is not a new problem it has been going on forever.I have a neigbor who when he walks his dog on other neigbors lawns leaves then hot steeming piles of dog dropings .he does this when no one is watching and denies it when confronted about it.I suspect he may have an accident in the near future .
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Old March 16, 2005, 01:46 PM   #29
DR_MAX
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Rich:

You're "staff" - staff of what? The Flat Earth Society? Apparently you don't even know the difference between domestic cats and bobcats. If you are actually having problems with domestic cats at large, you can put out traps and take them to the animal shelter or the nearest vet - assuming you have one or the other. As for the moron who scribed the article to which you allude: I will be dealing with him as a separate issue. In case you haven't figured it out yet, there are aboubt the same percentage of cat haters amoung the vetertinary population as any other; and by the way, the bottom
quarter of veterinary classes tend to gravitate to the state jobs.
At any rate, I suppose it is futile to argue with a cat hater. The only way they can be converted is to actually own, and have a relationship with a cat.
You can try to rationalize your degenerate point of view any way you like, but you aren't fooling anyone. We know why you like to shoot pet cats and
can only hope you will graduate to serial killing as a way of gratifying your urges. That way you may eventually get your cumuppence.

Have a nice day

[after the fact edit by author removed for direct attack against Forum Member. Post remains as originally recorded. Rich Lucibella]

Last edited by DR_MAX; March 16, 2005 at 02:48 PM.
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Old March 16, 2005, 02:27 PM   #30
Rich Lucibella
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Originally Posted by Dr_Max
You can try to rationalize your degenerate point of view any way you like, but you aren't fooling anyone. We know why you like to shoot pet cats and can only hope you will graduate to serial killing as a way of gratifying your urges. That way you may eventually get your cumuppence.
No cat hater here. Don't "like to shoot pet cats". Never killed a feral cat in my life; I don't have a problem with them in my neck of the woods. But I do understand the reality of feral cats and dogs for many....it's not pretty and the "Kitty-Lovers" out there don't seem to be doing a helluva lot about it other than whining over little "Fluffy". And I certainly never had "relations" with a cat, though I had been known to lay down with a few real dogs in my early years.

Based on the above facts, I can't be "rationalizing" my "degenerate point of view" (since I don't have any) or "gratifying" my "urges" (since I don't have any in regards to cats).

Trap 'em and get 'em off to the local "Humane" Shelter? Ummmm, there's a real solution. Little feral "Whiskers" will certainly find a loving home.

I am truly pleased that you chose to direct this at me. You see, when it comes to violations of Forum Policy I don't generally offer second chances. But, since you only attacked me personally, you just got exactly that....a second chance; suggest you use it wisely.
Rich
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Old March 16, 2005, 02:29 PM   #31
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Wow DrMax, you sure have a lot of hate showing yourself, to be pulling a rightious Ralph as you are...Whoa.

You might have a semblance of a point to make, but I think you killed it when you showed your teeth. Prolly never been out of the city, huh?

I got nothing against cats, but they have their downside. They're not to be held above human habitation I would think. How could you hold the cat blameless for going into someones property and oh, killing their chicken or something and the owner shooting the cat for it? (I used to live on a farm and watched a cat finish off a chicken)

If you have a precious housepet, thats ok. But protect it by keeping it in the house. You cant kill its natural urges, and cant reasonably blame a landowner for taking out the cat who defiled his property in any way either.

If ART or Rich took out my cat for doing whatever on their property, I'd feel like I still owed them an apology for not controlling my animal.
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Old March 16, 2005, 04:12 PM   #32
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If ART or Rich took out my cat for doing whatever on their property, I'd feel like I still owed them an apology for not controlling my animal.
Same here as the same would go for my dog if it got out and threatened others or destroyed property.

Quote:
If you are actually having problems with domestic cats at large, you can put out traps and take them to the animal shelter or the nearest vet
Animal Shelter won't do anything and won't take them. They will only take house cats or cats that are adopable but you have to pay them $50 to take it. Vets won't take them either, neither will they reduce their rates for "nipping" the things that make more problems.

So, you see that the state/city/county won't do anything to help with the problem. Now, don't get me wrong, I love animals, all animals, but if you allow a problem to continue it will only grow until it's out of control.

Now, if anyone is willing to donate to me either $50 a pop for the timid ferels which may be adoptable or a grand donation of around $100,000 or so, I would happily go around the county, trap the ferels, and take them to the vet for the surgery.

Until then, I can only thin the herds to ensure of no outbreaks of diseases and extreme property damage the only way offered to me at this time. I would love to bring them all in and make them into house pets but that is not practical or doable.

Wayne
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Old March 16, 2005, 04:23 PM   #33
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Whoa!!! I take it back.....after his post to Rich I must state firmly that DR_MAX and I DO NOT think alike as previously thought!

My apologies Rich.
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Old March 16, 2005, 08:34 PM   #34
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The only way they can be converted is to actually own, and have a relationship with a cat.
I own and have a relationship with a cat. Because I care about it, I control its movements for its own safety. A side benefit is that this also prevents it from annoying my neighbors.

That doesn't change my views on feral cats, or cats that are pets in name only (fed by someone but not controlled or maintained by them in any other significant way.)

I reject your premise. Emotion (loving a pet) is a poor rationale for forming a personal policy on the population management of feral animals. Any person with a significant background in science should appreciate that.

Furthermore, any person who would attack another person for legally eliminating a member of a non-native pest species needs to carefully reassess his motives and rationale. Engaging in an illegal and foolish activity, such as attacking a person who is engaged in a legal activity and who possesses a loaded firearm, is...well--illegal and unwise. It's kind of sad to even have to make such a pitifully obvious statement.
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Old March 16, 2005, 08:37 PM   #35
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Ok I think if the cat has a collar it shouldn’t be killed. If you’re out of city limits and the animal has no identification that it could possibly be someone’s pet its fair game. If its someone’s cat on your street chances are you know where it lives and call the owner if you don’t like it on your property. if it comes back a paintball gun will do the job. I doubt they wouldn’t think twice about praying on little critters at your house. If you really have a problem with them a physical problem that is a 12ga with #4 shot would GET-R-DONE at close range.
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Old March 16, 2005, 09:18 PM   #36
Art Eatman
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At varying times over some fifty years I had cats and dogs, until moving to the desert. I won't try to have a pet cat here in Terlingua because of horned owls and coyotes, as well as the occasional lion. I'm gone too much for an indoor-cat to be feasible; it's not fair to the cat.

In town? I never ever even thought of killing somebody's cat. Never occurred to me. Heck, I once had a big ol' Siamese bluepoint tom who could make walls reverberate when he was in full song! Had him neutralized, and he just hung around the house after that. Didn't really like being reduced to the status of consultant. Sorta sad.

But feral--as in nobody owns them--cats out in the boonies flatout don't belong there and I do all I can to eradicate them...

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Old March 16, 2005, 10:25 PM   #37
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as much fun as popping some cats would be especially when their always in your yard and you have told your neibor to keep them under control I do have to agree with previous posts that A this will put Gun owners in a bad light B as much as I like and love song birds their are a good number of other things killing them as well and C I think shooting the cats with bows would save ammunition and make it more challenging.
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Old March 16, 2005, 11:39 PM   #38
JohnKSa
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I tried to point this out earlier but didn't really do an effective job. Songbirds are, by far, not the only animals killed by cats. They have virtually eliminated many other small animals such as small frogs, lizards, geckos, small non-poisonous snakes, virtually anything that moves and is small and slow enough to be caught by a cat, from large areas. Besides the obvious damage to local ecosystems, most of these small animals prey on insects--so reducing their populations tends to increase insect populations--something that few people want.

Furthermore, feral cats often injure pet cats and can spread diseases and parasites to pet cats and in some cases to other pets that are outside. Some of these diseases can even be spread to humans.

Focusing on the songbird issue dramatically oversimplifies this situation. This isn't simply a matter of cats vs songbirds, it's a matter of cats vs local ecosystems and also feral cats vs pet cats.

At the purely rational level, pet cat owners and cat lovers in general should be the MOST avid killers of feral cats since that reduces the incidence of diseases and parasites which can target their pets in specific and the species as a whole.
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Old March 17, 2005, 01:18 AM   #39
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Cats worse for songbirds than DDT?

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldbe...0503160743.asp
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Old March 17, 2005, 02:44 PM   #40
DR_MAX
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OK, on careful reflection, I must appologize for my emotional outbursts. This is a touchy subject with me as well as a lot of other people. I just hope you all can realize there is an enormous difference between culling nuisance stray and presumably feral cats, and shooting your neighbor's pet for being on your property. Maybe I'm not reading close enough, but it seemed to me that many of you are not making that distinction. If you are not, the next time you have what is fairly obviously a well-fed and owned cat in your sights I hope you will think about what you would say to a tearful seven year old cat owner as to why you thought it was OK to kill their kittycat. And while your at it, you might consider that that same seven year old may grow into another rabid anti-gun zealot. I'm just asking you to give it some thought. If the cat is owned - then surely you can think of a better way to deal with the situation than to just blow it away. As gun owners, we all owe it to each other, as well as to the population at large, to consider the consequences of each and every shot we take.
By the way, maybe things are a lot different out here (in OK) but I can't imagine anyone needing permission to shoot stray/nongame animals unless there is a law specifically proscribing it. Even where it is technically covered under anti-cruelty statutes, it is rarely if ever enforced.
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Old March 17, 2005, 02:57 PM   #41
Rich Lucibella
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Doc Max-
I think that apology cuts both ways. Some of us were a bit flip in our responses (myself included). I don't really think anyone here is talking about shooting strays on sight (I hope not). As a dedicated Vet, I can see where we might have touched a hot button.

The feral cats issue is something different to many, though. As I said, I don't see them in my neck of the woods. My last dog, an Aussie, was found in the mountains of NC running with a near wild pack. Took us 3 weeks of feeding just to get a hand on him. Had him for 17 years.....best dog I've ever owned.
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Old March 17, 2005, 04:04 PM   #42
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Dr. Max,

I was speaking only of ferels, not domestics that may have gotten out on accident.

From experience and just with common sense, a ferel and a house cat are pretty easy to tell the difference. Sometimes not so if you're not sure then take out a cat that you know is ferel.

If I see a tagged cat (this is the reason that I tagged mine), it's free from being shot and I do try to lure it in so I can call the Vet's number on the tag. If I can get it to just sit there long enough to get my binocs then I try to read the number and discribe the cat.

In no way and at no time was I speaking of just "hunting kitty" for fun and pleasure, even through I know that some would be happy to do just that (but not on this board... I hope).

I've lived here in Eugene for about 5 years now and unfortunatly had to thin the ferels twice. I have tried to get the humane society and the county to develope some sort of program but they won't. I call the LEO's when I see people abdaning the animals and I get tag numbers, discribtions, the whole nine yards and the LEO's won't do anything (can't blame the Sheriff, he and his deputies have a huge county to patrol and many out of the way areas).

When I see an abdaned animal I do try to lure it in and then find a home for it. Sadly, the animals usually have been beaten or hurt by a human and are scared of people (not to mention just being dumped) and run.

It's the people in this town that **** me off and when I have to thin the ferels, I don't feel good about it, more angry with the people in this town and the state, county (and the humane society which is anti hunting but won't do anything about the cats/dogs that people dump off).

Be assured, I get no pleasure from having to do such a job.

Wayne
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Old March 17, 2005, 07:45 PM   #43
Rich Lucibella
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This Story Just Hit Fox News

Shep Smith ran a piece on it tonight. Looks like tensions are heating up out there; proponents are receiving death threats.
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Old March 22, 2005, 06:41 PM   #44
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Thats not a surprise Rich, nothing is more intolerant than a liberal.
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Old March 22, 2005, 09:10 PM   #45
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I just hope you all can realize there is an enormous difference between culling nuisance stray and presumably feral cats, and shooting your neighbor's pet for being on your property.
No Max, we sit around in our ninja suits planning raids on little old ladys' apartments to kill their cats and making gratuitous threats to strangers about what we're going to do to them if we catch them disagreeing with us.

Quote:
OK, on careful reflection, I must appologize for my emotional outbursts.
Mighty kind of you.

BTW my nearest neighbor who harbors nuisance animals lives a little less than a half mile away.
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