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Old March 8, 2005, 08:27 PM   #51
dawg23
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Florida Gun Law "In Plain English" from www.Packing.org:


Lawful Use Of A Firearm For Defense

A license to carry a firearm is not a license to use it. Under Florida law, you can use deadly force only if you reasonably believe yourself or another person to be in danger of death or serious personal injury, or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony (such as rape, robbery or carjacking). There are two important concepts to remember: The first is the "Duty To Retreat"; this means that if you can avoid the danger by running away, then run away, no matter how you may feel that this affects your honor. The second is the "Castle Doctrine", which means that you do NOT have a "Duty To Retreat" when in your own home or place of business; you can stand your ground and defend your premises and possessions even if you could avoid personal danger by running away.
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Old March 8, 2005, 08:48 PM   #52
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"Did you miss the part where I said I would neither kill nor die for $50 of 7-11's money?"


no i caught that. you dont have to shoot him, and you certainly would not die, remember, you have the gun, he has the screwdriver, so why give him the money, he IS a criminal. pull your gun and he either runs or drops to the floor and goes to jail, either way, he aint getting the money.
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Old March 9, 2005, 09:22 AM   #53
Joe Demko
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pull your gun and he either runs or drops to the floor and goes to jail, either way, he aint getting the money.
If I pull my gun, somebody is getting shot. Full stop, end of statement.
I practice drawing and firing, not drawing and waiting to see whether the jackass with the screwdriver is overawed by the mere sight of my mighty rod.
If I think he is a threat to my personal safety, or that of a customer in the store, I'll kill him where he stands. If he isn't a threat to me, why not follow 7-11's corporate policy? You may like to think of yourself as the righteous executioner of criminals, but the hood doesn't fit me.
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Old March 9, 2005, 04:51 PM   #54
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"If he isn't a threat to me, why not follow 7-11's corporate policy? You may like to think of yourself as the righteous executioner of criminals, but the hood doesn't fit me."
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maybe you didnt catch what i has posted earlier. i would NOT have shot unless he lunged at me with the screwdriver. i like to see criminals put in jail where they belong.
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Old March 22, 2005, 07:50 PM   #55
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Draw on a blindside, keeping the peice out of BGs sight. Say "Im sorry sir, i cannot do that." BG moves on you. You erase BG from the planet. "He rushed at me with that screwdriver, officer. Its on the tape - i felt he was going to kill me!"

Not only do you get off, but you just did the community a favor.
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Old March 23, 2005, 12:53 PM   #56
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Not only do you get off, but you just did the community a favor.
Fap fap fap fap fap
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Old March 23, 2005, 02:16 PM   #57
Unique 5.7
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If I have a gun on a guy with a screwdriver and there is a counter between us, no way will I shoot. I do not feel my life is in jeopardy and I would feel bad if I killed him. He raises the screwdriver back to throw it or leaps at the counter, then I'll shoot.
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Old March 23, 2005, 03:54 PM   #58
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What is it about these, ‘what if’ scenarios that always strikes me as so odd? I’m reminded of those, ‘situational ethics’ schemes from the hippie era of the late 60’s and 70’s. (What crap that all turned out to be!) If a law enforcement official is confronted by an actor with a weapon; and that perpetrator closes to within 21 feet of him, the officer is justified to draw his weapon and fire – period! Statistically speaking, (even if the incident does get past the grand jury) once the case gets to court, there isn’t a jury on the planet that’s going to convict that officer.

Now, take that same officer out-of-uniform and, all of a sudden, a whole new set of legal standards suddenly applies: ‘the obligation to withdraw’, ‘the necessity to seek a line of retreat’, ‘the castle doctrine’, etc. Inside the United States there’s clearly one set of weapon’s use regulations for law enforcement, and another entirely different set of weapon’s sue laws for civilians. (Even the term, ‘civilian’ is used derisively by many in the legal community.)

Anyone who is naïve enough to think that handing over the money is going to save himself from being injured or worse is, well, simply not paying attention to the news. Many times these guys will murder you just for the shear love of killing. (Ethnicity may, also, enter into the psychological equation.) Anytime you’re threatened by an armed BG you’ve got a potentially lethal problem staring you right in the face; and you need to seriously consider the use of deadly force in exactly the same way that every law enforcement official is trained to respond!

I don’ t want to kill anyone, either; and I, also, don’t think that someone should die for $50.00 of the corporation’s money; however, if my own physical well-being is being threatened by someone who’s demonstrating a willingness to end my life or cause me serious bodily harm, well then, what happens next is going to happen fast; and it’s going to have a lot to do with how close the BG gets to me with that weapon. Sure, I’ll give warning if I’m able; but, ‘talking’ is not going to be tops on my list of things I need to do right now!

This said, you couldn’t get me to work in any convenience store for any amount of money; I’ve already been in a gun shop when a group of gang bangers came into the store. Even with numerous armed individuals on both sides of the counter, that’s about as thrilling as I would, ever, care to see things. When I found out that my own sister-in-law had taken a cashier’s position at a local convenience store I went to see her, and convinced her to immediately quit. At first she was hesitant; but she finally agreed to do as I asked. Several months later when the place was robbed at gunpoint, she couldn’t thank me enough. (and, neither could my wife!)

Several things are for certain: If you anticipate, ever, having the need to defend yourself, at the very least, you should be intimately familiar with the weapons' use laws of the local you’re operating in. (Many of us are licensed to carry in numerous different states; so, yes, it IS necessary to be familiar with the laws in each state that you move through.)

Remember that, especially in places like a convenience store, everything you do will be on camera; so act accordingly. More than this we have just entered an age of real-time cell phone video and photographs; and the modern world has never been more transparent than it is right now. It is, probably, a good idea to practice the same, ‘mental visualizations’ about your typical daily responses as you do for weapons’ drills and defense scenarios at the range.

Regardless, there is one hard fast rule that every civilian who carries a weapon should keep foremost in mind : After using a weapon, SHUT UP and let your lawyer do all the talking. Every form of modern attack entails two distinct events for which you need to be ready to defend yourself: First there is the actual physical attack, itself; and, then, there is the legal inquiry that follows and from which charges against you may result. One of the most poignant and bitter lessons of my own life is the realization that there is the real world of the street on the outside, and the contrived socio-political world that exists inside the modern courtroom. With no exceptions that I’m able to think of, the less you have to say at the scene of a shooting, or immediately afterward, the better your chances are going to be to effectively defend yourself from the legal brouhaha that is sure to follow.

Personally, I have a simple rule that I like to follow: Before I would be willing to shoot another person - for any reason - I would ask myself the distinct question, ‘Is this problem REALLY worth the minimum of $10,000.00 that the first bullet I fire is sure to cost me?’
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Old March 23, 2005, 09:44 PM   #59
stephen426
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I don't get you get you guys

I know brandishing is illegal but do you really think Jimbo with the screwdriver is going to run to the cops and tell them you drew your weapon and pointed it at him after he attempted to rob you? Give me a break! I would draw the gun and hold him for the cops. If he runs, just let him go.

No offense to convenient store/liquor store clerks but you guys have a great chance of getting robbed. Get a safer job. Even if you are able to defend yourself, you may end up getting tried by an over-zealous DA, getting sued by the Scumbag if he survives (make sure it doesn't) or the relatives of the aforementioned scumbag, and then getting fired for violating a no weapons policy. You guys are just looking for trouble.

I worked at a Wendy's as a night manager as part of my hospitality management program. This store was located on a busy street but it was not in the best of neighborhoods. I talked to the franchisee about carrying but he said it was prohibited. After having drugged out wackos walking up tp the drivethrough and having to fire a crack hoe after my first week, I carried regardless. I borrowed my mom's Sig P230 since you can just slip it in your pocket. I am fortunate I never had to use it but I know I would have to deal with a bunch of crap if I did.
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Old March 25, 2005, 12:02 AM   #60
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Quote:
Now, take that same officer out-of-uniform and, all of a sudden, a whole new set of legal standards suddenly applies: ‘the obligation to withdraw’, ‘the necessity to seek a line of retreat’, ‘the castle doctrine’, etc. Inside the United States there’s clearly one set of weapon’s use regulations for law enforcement, and another entirely different set of weapon’s sue laws for civilians. (Even the term, ‘civilian’ is used derisively by many in the legal community.)
I understand your point, and agree (to a point) that it seems rather unfair. However, knowing those who work in the Law Enforcement profession; my educated opinion would be that since they're obligated to protect the public, whereas we (as CHL holders) are only obligated to defend ourselves, they (the LEOs) are given more room "legally" as to when lethal force is justified. Basically, here in PA, it's well spelled out in Crimes Code.
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Old March 26, 2005, 12:55 AM   #61
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I guess it depends how I felt that day. But if it's not my business, I'd give up the money. If he acted stupid, or said something to **** me off, then I'd likely kill the idiot and stick the screwdriver thru his ear. I would really. Wonder if you could get workers comp for the traumatic experience? I'd take that too.
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Old March 26, 2005, 06:55 AM   #62
LAK
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What Arc Angel said.

And something to look into if you ever have to defend yourself are the case histories on peace officer uses of deadly force. As Arc Angel points out there is a perceived difference as to when a peace officer may defend him or herself with deadly force and other citizens under similar circumstances, which is unjustifiable. So presenting a what's good for the goose is good for the gander case might be worth considering sometimes.
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Old March 26, 2005, 03:21 PM   #63
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Many years ago (too many years ago) I DID work at a 711. I worked the 11 pm to 7am shift. One thing I did was feed the Cops. I never charged them for coffee and a sandwich was an entitlement. One night about 2am two aholes came in and while one was walking about taking stuff and generally vandalizing the other. leaned over the counter, grabbed me by the shirt, pulled a knife and told me he wanted money. I had a mop bucket, the commercial variety with the big squeeze thin and the steel handle about 2' long. I pulled the handle loose and laid it on the leering fool and proceeded...
While I was beating him, the other guy freaked out and ran from the store just as a Cop was pulling up for coffee. In short, they were both busted. The guy I was working on was ambulanced away. The Cop thought it was a hoot. It was then I decided to carry.
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Old May 25, 2005, 10:15 AM   #64
big daddy 9mm
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if I owned a store

I would put a sign up that said 'employees armed' and lets see what happenes.
I would issue a pistol for them. I am dead mother fuccin serious too
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Old May 25, 2005, 10:19 AM   #65
big daddy 9mm
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I forgot

I would ask the robber 'what caliber is your scew driver, mine is a 44 mag'
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Old May 25, 2005, 01:12 PM   #66
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I'd drop him.
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