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Old March 4, 2005, 09:53 AM   #1
Tamara
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Latest Issue: Props to Pat Rogers, others.

Thanks for the very informative article on the MEU(SOC) 1911. Considering that this pistol has more myth and urban legend surrounding it than Sasquatch and the JFK Assassination combined, it's nice to have something that can be pointed to as "Definitive Source Material".

Also, the rest of the magazine continued to remind me just why it is I like SWAT so much. Rather than being the usual blend of spec sheets, tired cliches, and reviews that can't be told apart from the ads at twenty paces, SWAT seems to maintain its focus on doing stuff, rather than simply the stuff itself. In any given month Ultimate Combat American Handguns For Law Enforcement might teach me that Taurus has released a new caliber in their small-frame revolvers, while SWAT might teach me some new techniques to use with my flashlight, or an entirely new way to look at fighting with a carbine. Nice.
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Old March 4, 2005, 12:28 PM   #2
sjstill
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+1

I know it would be impossible, but I sure wish it came out bi-weekly.....

I think I read each issue 4 - 5 times. Each time I usually find something I miss from the previous read.
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The primary target is what we call the thoracic triangle. Shots to this area tend to make people FDGB (“fall down go boom”).
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Old March 4, 2005, 12:33 PM   #3
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sj-
Not bi-weekly, but beginning with the November issue we are going from 9X a year to 12X.

Denny
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Old March 4, 2005, 12:51 PM   #4
sjstill
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Woo-Hoo!!!!
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The primary target is what we call the thoracic triangle. Shots to this area tend to make people FDGB (“fall down go boom”).
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Old March 4, 2005, 01:05 PM   #5
Rich Lucibella
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I still can't believe how many people told us we'd never make it without focusing on the bottom line only.

Is this any way to run a magazine? Maybe not.....but we don't know any other.
Rich
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Old March 4, 2005, 01:17 PM   #6
sjstill
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Keep 'breaking the rules', Rich

You've got a long-term subscriber here.
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The primary target is what we call the thoracic triangle. Shots to this area tend to make people FDGB (“fall down go boom”).
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:51 PM   #7
Pat Rogers
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Tamara- thanks for the kind words. That article wa compiled from many sources, including the former OIC at PWS, several 2112's and some of the Shooters from the original platoons, as well as personal observations and notes/ documents.
I'm truly fortunate to be writing for SWAT. Rich and Denny have done a great job.
Besides, what other magazine would let me write an 8 page, 4101 word story about something so esoteric?
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Old March 4, 2005, 06:56 PM   #8
Rich Lucibella
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Damn you, Pat-
Here's Denny and me, baskin in the sun; takin' all the credit.....and then you come along.

And exactly what did YOU contribute anyway? Just another tiny little Home Run. Phooey!

Rich
ps: It was one of the best features I've seen in this or any other shooter magazine.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:19 PM   #9
KSFreeman
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Hmmm, Pat Rogers you say?

I enjoyed it as well, but I'm just a gun geek (i.e. never jumped out of a helicopter, but I DID make some mean coffee). SWAT continues its ascent to ne plus ultra of the gun culture, and not a flowered shirt in sight.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:19 PM   #10
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esoteric is good with me Pat. Good read, thanks.
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Old March 4, 2005, 07:26 PM   #11
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Frankly, it was a story that needed to be told. Between the print and electronic media, there has been much speculation and misinformation about the MEU(SOC) pistol. I read in one place that the new MEU(SOC) pistol was being made by Kimber, when in actuality it was the interim CQB pistol for Det (see S.W.A.T., Dec. '03). Apparently there are some who don't know (or have bothered to check) the difference.

Like I said, it was a story that needed to be told. Thanks, Pat.

Denny
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Old March 5, 2005, 07:46 AM   #12
Pat Rogers
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Thanks guys, but you provided the vehicle.
One "I wish" thing. I wish I had thought of the "Sasquatch/ Kennedy" comment from Tamara.
I would have used that for sure!!
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Last edited by Pat Rogers; March 5, 2005 at 09:33 AM. Reason: spelling.....
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Old March 5, 2005, 09:26 AM   #13
OBIWAN
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With no slight intended towards Ms. Tamara, your own dry wit suffices sir

My wife can't figure out why I laugh so much reading a "Gun Magazine"

Rich...what kind of madman actually dares to say anything bad about a firearm in a magazine article.....you are doomed man!
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Old March 5, 2005, 09:43 AM   #14
Pat Rogers
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Dry wit? Me?

Thanks- but don't call me Sir- i work for a living. Sort of.......
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Old March 7, 2005, 01:19 PM   #15
garrettwc
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+1 for the postivive reviews.

I went straight to Pat's article when I got the magazine. Still working my way through the rest of it.

SWAT is the only magazine that I have read where every page has something useful. I usually skip over the editor's column or readers comments in other magazines. But not in SWAT. Denny always has some useful tidbit in there.

One follow up question for Pat if he will indulge.

Early in the article when you were listing the parts you said "ramped barrel". Do I understand correctly that they are/have been using ramped barrels vs. the standard ramp on frame of a 1911? If so what was the reason/advantage over the non-ramped standard configuration?
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Old March 7, 2005, 04:54 PM   #16
Pat Rogers
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Thanks for the kind words.

The comments in question were copied verbatim from the POI for thr CQB Course. Having said that, and to the best of my knowledge, they never used a "ramped" barrel, and it was my belief- after asking those who taught the course, that it probably meant "polished" but has always been in the POI and no one ever changed it.

I made a note on this on the first draft. However, when working on V3.2, it was lost in the sauce, so to speak.

It was my error, and mine alone.
Sorry for the error.
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Old March 7, 2005, 11:04 PM   #17
Tamara
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Mayhap it was a reference to "ramped & throated", in the Old Skool sense?
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Old March 8, 2005, 12:14 AM   #18
garrettwc
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Thanks, Pat.

Quote:
Mayhap it was a reference to "ramped & throated", in the Old Skool sense?
Tamara, that would make sense given what Pat said, and the context of some of the notes quoted in the article.
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Old March 8, 2005, 12:51 AM   #19
David DiFabio
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Late to the party- but then who gets time to read with kids and work Very good article and it is much better than the old .PDF from Pats previous article on the MEU (SOC) 1911, color pics were good and I was very glad to see the History Channel mistakes corrected.
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Old March 8, 2005, 06:07 AM   #20
Pat Rogers
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"Old Skool sense"....
Right- that's what i meant to say!

Thanks Dave. Unfortunately - and especially with the length of the article- there were a bunch of images showing representative pistols that space didn't permit.
Hopefully it will clear up some of the bum scoop passed.
However, as some on some of the forums have a difficult time with reading comprehension, i'm sure we will get a new run of bum scoop.
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Old March 9, 2005, 02:07 PM   #21
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Count me in as a ditto on the excellent article. But I did find something highly disturbing. As Pat was recounting the various Disinformation Cowpath myths, I realized that I had participated in many (if not all) of the threads he was referring to. Not that I minded my participation, as I was on the side of the angels (i.e. I merely recounted information learned from Pat) but was disturbed by the fact that, as said before, I was in most of them!

I think I'm on the internet too much. Ah, well. At least surfing is a fun hobby.
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Old March 9, 2005, 02:55 PM   #22
auto45
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Just picked up a copy because of the good things I've read about the article.
And, it was very good and informative.

It would be interesting to hear about the testing that all 4 companies failed. I assume they were "production" models and not 'spiffed' up.

Still, unless they were dropping them off a cliff, you would think that 50-75% would/could pass the test and then you decide which one is better...wouldn't you??


Thanks
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Old March 9, 2005, 03:25 PM   #23
Pat Rogers
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Thanks Buzz. With most of the errornet threads, a great many people would probably be better off listening, and asking a solid question vice making ridiculous statements.
However, then they would have little to work themselves into a tizzy about.
It is amazing how many of the myths keep surfacing....

Auto45- Thanks for the kind words.
I believe you hit the wrong key. There were 3 pistols. They were built to the specifications in the RFP, so they may or may not have been production. The testing stays close hold for a great number of reasons.
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Old March 9, 2005, 11:10 PM   #24
Tamara
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buzz_knox,

Quote:
But I did find something highly disturbing. As Pat was recounting the various Disinformation Cowpath myths, I realized that I had participated in many (if not all) of the threads he was referring to.
Ah, yes, but with my track record on MIM, checkering, and Novaks, I'm the real keyboard commando!

I may disagree with him here & there (and only when I need my guns to do different things than the real honest-to-Wodan door-kicking shooters that he trains) but all-in-all, he's one of maybe three or four writer/trainers that I really pay attention to.

After all, if it wasn't for a couple of articles he wrote, I wouldn't have completely changed my view of fighting an M4 carbine. That alone was worth the price of admission.
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Old March 10, 2005, 02:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
It is amazing how many of the myths keep surfacing....
Agreed, Pat. Now, for your next article, could you describe the history of the .44 mag Desert Eagle that was issued to Force Recon during Desert Storm. According, this thread I read once, it had a satin stainless finish, for durability and reduced glare.



Tam, I agree 100%. We don't always have to have the same tools and techniques, because our needs vary. When I first set up my M4gery, Pat explained to me the benefits of the vertical foregrip, but simply grabbing the mag well worked was as effective for me. Now, after a night shoot where the value of dedicated light became clear, I'm going to give the VFG and rail system a chance. But the only reason it will be there is because I saw a need for it, not because someone else is using it.
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