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Old July 27, 2000, 11:24 PM   #1
Correia
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Join Date: December 3, 1998
Location: SLC Utah
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I know that I can get a class 3 liscense for $200. My questions are:

1. How much does a good suppresor (.45) cost. Are these still being manufactured and available? Or are they like machine guns? (no more after '86)

2. If I get a carbine, chambered in .45, and cut the barrel down so that with the suppresor attached to it is 16' long is that legal? Or would that also be a short barreled rifle and require another tax stamp? What if the suppresor is permanantly pinned on? (like some of these long post ban muzzle breaks).

3. I've been told that this is not doable on a postban semiauto because the ATF would consider it a flash suppresor, even with the class 3, is that true?

If your curious, I was thinking about taking an Enfield and making a modern version of the DeLisle. Not any time soon of course, that would require money. But I'm curious.

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Old July 28, 2000, 08:34 AM   #2
fal308
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Suppressors are still being made. As a matter of fact it is a growing market. As with anything else, you get what you pay for. There are suppressors out there for $100 (plus stamp) but they are nearly worthless usage-wise. If you stick with some of the brand names, AWC, John's Guns, KAC, Gemtech and many others you should do well. Talk to the mfgrs and see what they suggest as suppressors are like rifles, cars etc. Different circumstances require a different tool (in this case a different suppressor). There are different styles of suppressors and the mfgr should be able to tell you whether you need a baffle system, wipes system, cone system or whatever.
On the length of the rifle, I believe it would have to have a longer than 16" barrel to stay legal or else you would have to get a short barrel rifle stamp also. I believe also that this would be a two stamp project (with short barrel) though your best bet would be to get an asnwer in writing from the Technical Branch in Wash DC. Field offices have been known to be contradictory and may inadvertently give erroneous information. Even though the field office may give you some information you would still be liable for any illegalities that might occur due to the field office recommendation. It has happened enough across the country that it has become a rather vulgar joke.
As to the post-ban semi-auto; my understanding is it still has to conform to all applicable laws (Calif. assault rifle, US 922, etc) so if it already has one "evil" feature then it can't have a suppressor put on. This area has been under discussion for quite a while as it appears to be a somewhat grey area of the law, depending upon who you talk to. Again your best bet would be to get it in writing from the Technology Branch.
As for building a modern DeLisle, sounds cool. There is a company building these with suppressors and with dummy suppressors also. Www.valkyriearms.com
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Old July 28, 2000, 08:58 AM   #3
Correia
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Thanks for the info & the link, I wasn't aware that anybody was currently doing that.
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Old July 29, 2000, 02:43 PM   #4
M16
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You can not get a class three license for $200. You can get a tax stamp for that amount. A class three license will cost you $500 dollars. I have a Gemtech .45 suppressor for my HK M23 Socom. It works great. With this baby I don't need a rifle. Unless your rifle is a registered machine gun or short barreled rifle it would not be legal with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches and that is without a suppressor.
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Old July 29, 2000, 05:02 PM   #5
Schmit
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I've got an AWC Optima for my Pre-ban AR. Love it. Works great with regular .223s, about the same with .22 LR Hyper-Vels (Sound signature is about the same from the operators point of view) and with .22 LR Sub-sonics can you say "Hammer Strike, Target Impact".

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Old July 29, 2000, 09:38 PM   #6
James K
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Hi, Correia,

I think you are referring to the transfer tax of $200; it is not a license, only a tax stamp on the Form 4 transfer application.

Jim
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Old July 30, 2000, 11:19 AM   #7
Correia
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Location: SLC Utah
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Oh thanks, my mistake. I didn't realize that the stamp and the liscense where two seperate things.

So you don't need a class 3 liscense to have a class 3 weapon, only the stamp for the individual weapon? Or do you get the liscense, and only then you can get the weapon with the stamp? Man I love the goverment.

Schmit, if I remember right wasn't your AR named "Darkman". Now thats just too cool.
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Old July 30, 2000, 04:21 PM   #8
tankertom
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You find the gun you want and assuming you live in a Class 3 friendly state you flill out the Form 4 and pay the tax. Once you get your stamp back (assume 90 days) you get the gun/suppressor.

I like the suppressed camp carbine from John Tibbetts www.johnsguns.com but a DeLisle would be much quieter than the semiauto where the action noise is much of what you hear.

TT
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Old July 31, 2000, 08:45 AM   #9
fal308
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Sorry, I skipped right over the stamp/license issue.
A class three license allows you (an individual or corporation) to engage in the business of buying/selling/transferring Title II firearms (machineguns, SBRs, SBSs, suppressors). Not sure but I also bleieve that it allows you to engage in the business of buying/selling/transferring destructive devices (mortars, rotating cylinder shotguns, etc) though that may not be true. I don't recall at the moment.
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Old August 1, 2000, 06:06 AM   #10
Dead
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Only $500 to a get Class 3 Dealer Licence?? Wow! Those are pretty nice

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Old August 1, 2000, 09:42 PM   #11
James K
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Hi, Dead (Really?),

The so-called Class 3 license is for engaging in business. The applicant must be able to demonstrate that he has business premises, local licenses, etc. BATF very much discourages those who want to get a license just so they can play with FA weapons.

Plus, if the license is to be surrendered, any guns the business owner wishes to keep and which are transferable must be transferred on a Form 4, with the $200 tax. Otherwise, any guns must be transferred to another dealer or surrendered. In other words, you can't get a license, accumulate a machinegun collection and then close up the business and keep the guns freebie.

Jim
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