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Old March 2, 2005, 07:32 PM   #1
Craigar45
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Buying guns across state lines...

OK, so I am about to buy a rifle that is legal in WA where I live, and in OR where the seller lives. I am going to pick it up from him in OR... Is this legal?
I called the local ATF, and she suggested we do a bill of sale, but otherwise said it was no problem. The only reason I felt compelled to post my question here was after reading some other posts about transfering handguns across state lines. Any advice here would be appreciated! Thanks.

Craig
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Old March 2, 2005, 07:50 PM   #2
shaggy
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The person at BATFE is wrong.

Any interstate sale of a firearm between two unlicensed (non-FFL) individuals must go through an FFL. Since its a long gun, you can have it go through an FFL in either your state or the sellers state.
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Old March 2, 2005, 07:55 PM   #3
Rich Lucibella
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ATF is like IRS.
They are not bound by the opinions they render. Follow what they say, even with documentation, and you may later be prosecuted.

Use an FFL.
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Old March 2, 2005, 08:14 PM   #4
Craigar45
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Ok, then do both parties have to be present for the transfer? Say I pick it up, and then head home. Can I stop in at a local dealer a day later and register it? I dont suppose the answer here is yes, but I guess it doesnt hurt to ask. Thanks for the responses.

Craig
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Old March 2, 2005, 08:20 PM   #5
shaggy
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Nope.

You can't take the gun and 'register' it with an FFL later. That would sort of defeat the purpose, now wouldn't it?

The point of the FFL requirement on interstate sales is to make sure the person receiving the firearm is legal to do so in their state. The seller could leave the rifle with an FFL in either state (or any other state for that matter since its a rifle), and you could go by later to do the transfer and pick it up.
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Old March 2, 2005, 10:33 PM   #6
Handy
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I certainly could be wrong, but I believe that the restriction is on HANDGUNS, not rifles. Rifles can be purchased over state lines, and can be purchased in out of state shops.

Different story on pistols.


Here in NV the FFL dealers post signs about which rifles CA buyers can purchase and take to their state. This would seem pointless if interstate rifle sales were illegal.

I think maybe the ATF agent knows their job in this case.
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Old March 2, 2005, 11:02 PM   #7
shaggy
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Handy - You are correct, an FFL can sell a rifle or shotgun to a resident of ANY state as long as the sale complies with the law of BOTH states. But the original question was a sale of a rifle between two non-FFLs across state lines. Any interstate sale of a firearm (either a handgun or rifle/shotgun) between two non-FFLs has to go through an FFL. Here's a summary of the federal law, though some states may be more restrictive. I put the state where the non-FFL individual may come from in parentheses.


INTERSTATE - longarms
FFL to FFL = OK
FFL to individual (any state) = OK
individual (any state) to FFL = OK

INTERSTATE - handguns
FFL to FFL = OK
FFL to individual (FFL's state) = OK
individual (any state) to FFL = OK

Here's the statute.

18 USC 922(a)
It shall be unlawful:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

The exception in (b)(3) is what protects an FFL selling rifles & shotguns interstate.

18 USC 922 (b)
It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver:
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
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Old March 3, 2005, 10:34 PM   #8
Craigar45
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OK, my legal-reading abilities are not the best, but at the bottom of the USC posted by Shaggy, it reads:

"shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;"

doesnt that say that it doesnt apply to a gun legally bought or sold?


Thanks.


Craig
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Old March 3, 2005, 10:51 PM   #9
Handy
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Craig,

No, I think Shaggy has it right, and that paragraph is talking about FFL dealer sales, not private sales.

It looks like you legally can't go buy it, unless you want to get a written note from the ATF agent. I would love to see them trouble you with that in your files.
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Old March 3, 2005, 10:51 PM   #10
USP45usp
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Oh heck, I need to go to bed.. I've changed my answer four times now and I still don't have it right.... just call the ATF and get a name and then go from there. Record it if you have to.

I'm going to bed, nite .

Wayne

Last edited by USP45usp; March 3, 2005 at 10:59 PM. Reason: I need to go to bed
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