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Old January 9, 2005, 03:30 PM   #1
deercop
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The Illusive 33 - BAD NEWS

I recently sold a firearm and accessories to a guy located in Ligonier, PA. His user name is "The Illusive 33", and his real name is Scott Grote. I conducted the transfer FFL to FFL, which happens to be his father.

I described the items to the best of my abilities, sent photos, and answered any questions he had. Mr. Grote was apparently satisfied, as he said "It looks good to me, so I'll take it."

Mr. Grote initially claimed the items were damaged when he received them, but refused to initiate the insurance process. Then, he started claiming I frauded him, but misrepresenting the firearm itself. He threatened to have me charged with fraud by the USPS and the BATF.

Mr. Grote then started contacting my employer, my local PD, my sheriff's department, my district attorney's office, and my local magistrate. He made his claims of fraud to each of them, and none felt there was any criminal activity on my part. Each also told me Mr. Grote sounded like a smart-aleck with nothing better to do than cause me grief.

I reluctantly offered Mr. Grote a refund, if he could return the items in the condition I shipped them in. He refused, stating they are NOT in that condition, and demanded I refund him more money than the purchase price, due to his aggravation. If money is a problem for me though, I can just send him $200 and he'll drop the matter.

I have since been in contact with a moderator on another forum, who advised me Mr. Grote is well known to him, and he has a reputation for this sort of thing.

I'm going to tell Mr. Grote to GTH! I just thought everyone else should be aware of this guy, and maybe this'll prevent someone else from having to put up with his crap.
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Old January 19, 2005, 05:14 PM   #2
deercop
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My attorney, after reviewing all our communications, feels this guy is a con-man, and is trying to scam me, due to either damage inflicted after arrival, or a potential buyer backing out. The final tip-off was his offer of accepting $200 to drop the matter. However, those are just theories, the important part is he doesn't feel I have done anything at all wrong.

Also, the moderator from another forum contacted me, and I must have misunderstood his position. He meant that Mr. Grote has a reputation for being persistent, to the point of obstinance. Sorry for my mistake.
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Old January 20, 2005, 04:25 AM   #3
PsychoSword
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You sure seem to be having alot of bad luck lately with the Kahr fiasco and all. Gotta wonder why somebody would try and blackmail or ask for hush money from a police officer over the internet.
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Old January 20, 2005, 09:28 AM   #4
deercop
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Quote:
You sure seem to be having alot of bad luck lately with the Kahr fiasco and all. Gotta wonder why somebody would try and blackmail or ask for hush money from a police officer over the internet.
The Kahr thing worked out OK in the end.

I'm thinking this guy thought I would be more vulnerable due to my position. Actually, he essentially said such, by saying quote:
"I'm quite sure you don't want me involving the USPS Security or the BATF. Michael firearms are a very serious matter. Firearm's crimes and Mail Order Fraud are much more serious. Felony Offenses... And not dealt with kindly by law enforcement. Being in your position (law enforcement) I trust you understand that. And understand, what such allegations could jeopardize. For $500.00 I don't believe its worth the aggravation."
I hope he crawls back under his rock he came out from, and nobody else has to deal with him without forewarning, like I did.

And, as far as my run of bad luck goes, these don't even begin to scratch the surface. 2004 was definitely NOT my year!
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Old February 21, 2005, 06:05 PM   #5
deercop
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=28051614


We have for auction a Smith & Wesson Model 29-2 revolver like new in the original presentation case and accessories. This gun serial # N465,891 Manufactured in 1978. This great gun has an 8 3/8" barrel, & high polish blue finish. It was factory equipped with every possible factory target option. It has red ramp front sight, & white outline rear sight, Target Hammer , Target Trigger, and beautiful Target Grips. The gun retains all of its original blue and appears unfired other than factory test firing. This revolver appears complete as it was originaly shipped. It has its original shipping box with matching serial numbered label and original mailing label still attached all in excellent condition. The original Mahogany presentation case is contained in the shipping box. Appears completely as new with the exception of a few cracks to the liner. The original yellow banding is still present, as is all of the proper papers including the original reciept of purchase. You simply can't find a more complete setup anywhere. These are fast becoming collectable so don't miss a rare oppertunity to purchase a complete set for your collection.




THIS WAS MY GUN!!!!! You know, the refinished, buggered screw, box damaged in shipment, etc.

Scott Grote is a crook!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Purchase order.jpg (223.3 KB, 121 views)

Last edited by deercop; February 22, 2005 at 11:10 PM.
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Old February 25, 2005, 04:07 AM   #6
thelast2
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Quote:
Mr. Grote initially claimed the items were damaged when he received them, but refused to initiate the insurance process.
That right there would have been enough for me to tell this guy to go to hell and I would have probably made him well aware if he continued his antics a lawyer would be in contact with him to discuss a harrasment suit.

Hey deercop man this guy sounds like a regular con artist. But If I was you I would print a copy of that auction and keep it as the serial number is given proving that it is the same gun you sold this idiot. Anyone using gunbroker be sure to steer clear of this guy.
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Old February 25, 2005, 09:06 AM   #7
deercop
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thelast2,

Yeah, that right there is what clued me in that something was amiss. It just made no sense, IF he was legit that is. It made perfect sense, though, if he didn't want to file a false report with the USPS Postal Inspectors. I don't think they look too favorably on that.

With that in mind, multiple organizations HAVE received copies of our emails, my bill-of-sale, and his auction on Gunbroker. I don't think THEY will look too favorably upon fraud and extortion!
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Old February 26, 2005, 02:18 PM   #8
PinnedAndRecessed
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This is why I will not purchase over the 'net. I have found deals online, but will only purchase if I can drive to meet the seller and view the firearm.

I'm sure that 99% of all deals over the internet work out just peachy, but that last 1% of crooks and opportunists just doesn't make it worth the aggravation.
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Old February 26, 2005, 09:45 PM   #9
springfieldmaniac
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Hopefully you have all the e-mails and report his illegal activities to BATFE etc. Isn't what he did to you considered extortion.You should sue his A**,and he has been kind enough to have provided solid documentation of his fraud.Boy,what a scuzball!
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Old February 26, 2005, 10:06 PM   #10
deercop
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Springfieldmaniac,

I don't think BATF has jurisdiction over his criminal acts, just because they involved a firearm. I might be wrong, though, so please correct me if appropriate.

However, there ARE other Federal LE agencies that DO have jurisdiction, since it is interstate commerce, and payment and actual shipment occured in the mail.
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Old February 27, 2005, 07:51 PM   #11
springfieldmaniac
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I only mentioned BATFE because the transaction involved a gun.You are correct though about other agencies getting involved.I do believe he committed a Federal Offense.I'm sure by contacting a couple of them you can find the besst avenue.I figured the BATFE would be authorized to revoke his FFL for this type of behavior.Good Luck,and I hope this guy burns for what he attempted to do to you.
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Old February 27, 2005, 10:01 PM   #12
cuate
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Bad News

I have bid on and purchased several firearms on Action Arms.com. I always look at the sellers and buyer's feedback and if bad, forget about it.
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Old February 27, 2005, 10:53 PM   #13
deercop
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Quote:
I have bid on and purchased several firearms on Action Arms.com. I always look at the sellers and buyer's feedback and if bad, forget about it.
cuate,

I didn't sell him the gun through an auction site, but in a listing on a gun forum. I DID do a internet-search, and all that came up on that username was on Gunbroker, where he had good ratings. However, since then, I have reason to question his ratings there. Also, he DOES have other usernames!
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Old February 28, 2005, 01:08 AM   #14
cuate
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Bad News

Sorry I butted in, my aged mind is not always in gear when I engage the mouth or keyboard.


thank God you found out a nogoodnik and alerted all of us to the rascal. Thank you and go in peace, ride well and shoot straight, guns that is. Thanks.
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