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Old February 28, 2005, 11:17 AM   #1
cpileri
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About New Posters with threads regarding ILLEGAL stuff???

OK, maybe I am paranoid but why is it that over the last few months, I have seen an increasing number of threads (on all forums, not just here) started by new folks, as evidenced by their low post count, asking about something illegal or otherwise enticing the membership to admit to doing something illegal, unsafe, or unsavory.

Here’s some examples:
Illegal:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=161290
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=160566
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=161190
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=121340
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...0&page=1&pp=25
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=163228



Unsafe:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...highlight=SHTF
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=159324
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=163559


Unsavory (in my opinion, of course):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=123894
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=3918&hl=

As much as I sympathise with the starter of thefiringline #163228, its still bad press for us to the anti-2A’s- and most importantly to the fence sitting public!.

Here are some posts that for one reason or another just make me go “hmmmm…” and get a suspicious feeling in my gut. They still impact our image so I include them in this post.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=163628
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=163614


163614 just made me shake my head.

OUR IMAGE IS EVERYTHING right now. We need people to see our undentable armor of class, gentlemanliness (and gentlewomanliness), tolerance, polite manners, level-headed, peaceful, and law abiding nature so that when the traitor senators introduce the new AWB and other laws, people check the forums and see a bunch of respectable folks whose character cannot be assailed.

Think they wont check the forums? Ever since some news cast reported us BY NAME for smashing a gun poll, people have been lurking who have not before. See story here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...highlight=poll
and
http://www.harktheherald.com/modules...rder=0&thold=0
The firearms forums are now more in the public eye than ever! Maybe that’s where all the new posters are coming from? Again, I dunno.

There are others of course, but from folks with HUUUGE post counts: so they are unlikely trolls. A real troll wouldn’t have the patience to post hundreds or thousands of times before revealing itself. But they still dealt with: how drunk I’m going to get on some holiday, of which country I’d like to nuke, or who was nearly hit by a bullet with his/her most recent negligent discharges. Some forums are unmoderated, so the stuff really flies in there! Unmoderated discussions have their place, to be sure. I wouldn’t do away with them.

I guess I am a really boring guy.

Now, please, PLEASE listen (read): if you are one of the posters or responders in a thread above I mean no offense to sincere posts- none whatsoever. I very much DO mean to rat out trolls, however: especially ones who ask me if I do illegal things.

Despite that apology, I expect A LOT of flames/hate mail/ etc from people who will think I am insulting them. I can only say I am sorry once again.

I can see someone posting on DU or on CNN speaking for the Anti-2A lobby that ‘firearm owners self admit to illegal carry of concealed weapons, unsafe firearm handling, shooting under the influence of alcohol, illegal manufacture of machine guns, etc.’ and using that gleefully to further the bad press against us. If so, it could be used as serious bad publicity ammo to drum up support for the next sweeping ban.
Frankly, it would be very successful at that!

So as for me, I’ll try to present the boring, responsible image my grandma would be proud of.
I sure am not perfect, never have been. On some forums my post count isn’t very high at all. I have posted questions regarding illegal things- for info only, or for how to AVOID it. My concern is when someone asks you if you ever DO anything illegal – a serious difference!!
I am not against having a good time, having a drink, carrying for defense, etc- but now, more than EVER, our public image is vital to our legislative success. Just want folks to remember that on public boards.

Carry on,
C-
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:22 AM   #2
cpileri
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One more thing

OK, I thought of something just now...

I will probably never post anything like this thread again simply because I sure would hate to be a new member who happened to post a questionable thread topic, and be ashamed or angered enough not to post ever again!

That wouldn't help our image either!

OK, if I just described you I am sorry. BIG TIME. Please keep posting and become a contributing member.

I can't think of much else to say about how sorry I am if I am guilty of alienating a sincere board member.
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:37 AM   #3
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Short answer: It isn't illegal to ask if something is illegal.

Long answer: developing...
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:42 AM   #4
cpileri
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well

I guess i dont know; some things certainly seem to be illegal just to mention lately.

Here it is, Di Fi's new AWB:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGGLBHDAN1.DTL

Ok, friends lets make HER look like the 'nut' and not us!
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:48 AM   #5
cpileri
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OK, maybe i should give him time to read this post...

Sigh.

Then theres the reply to this post by Skirm:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=158354
(8th reply down)

C-
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Old February 28, 2005, 12:34 PM   #6
cpileri
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moved

I guess it is a suggestion, after all.
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Old February 28, 2005, 10:15 PM   #7
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There are many people that arent even remotely close to understanding the laws of firearm ownership ie.. what is legal or illegal. They see something on T.V. and take it as fact. And like TheBluesMan said it isnt illegal to ask if something is illegal. I feel this forum is very informative on many fronts and as some of these people read thru the threads they will get a better idea of what can and cant be done. While there will always be an antagonist or two those people im sure will be dealt with accordingly by the moderators if they get out of hand. Word to the wise if you have engaged knowlingly in any illegal activity involving a firearm KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, as you dont know who is reading this forum, and for those who arent aware yes we do have members that are currently law enforcement officers so get a clue and watch what you post because while you think its fun and games you may find out the harsh reality of it all.
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Old February 28, 2005, 10:37 PM   #8
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cpileri-
Your questions are fair ones and deserve answer. TBM and TL2 have done a pretty good job responding, but let me add my two cents.

As with many Forums, TFL caters to all, from Novice to Student to Expert. (I'm a Student). Certain questions are what I call "Rights of Passage":
"What's Better: Glock or 1911?"
"What's Better: 9mm or 45?"
"What's Better: Glaser or MagSafe?"

These are debates that every one of us have had as we've moved along in our learning. Similarly, the confusing morass of State and Federal Laws and Regulations begs for questions regarding AOW, Full Auto, Suppressors and the like. I'd rather have these questions asked and answered here at TFL than at the local gunshop.....our info is likely to be far more accurate.

That doesn't mean we tolerate anything here, though. We excuse honest errors and even ignorance, born of lack of knowledge, but do not suffer fools easily. You really have to look at who is asking the question, based on his/her other posts, to determine if they're honest, trolling or just kids playing grownup. We base our responses (and behind-the-scenes actions) on that. So should you.

TFL isn't just a clubhouse for vets. It's something of an "institute of learning" for all.
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:04 PM   #9
cpileri
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you bet

Dont get me wrong, i totally agree with all of you.
I know that someone new to the firearms world will have the same questions that have been asked a hundred times before. No problems.

And to be honest; I really ENJOY talking about some 'illegal' topics like full autos, how to convert them etc- its interesting and mechanical and fun. I would never do it, never advocate doing it; because of the draconian punishments etc that we all know so well. So i know that a a 'newbie' (a term i dont care for really) will ask them again.

That's why i apologized like 3 times in my posts: i just didnt know how to bring this up without risking ticking people off.

I mostly wanted to point out the odd coincidence that our forum (all gun forums, not just TFL) have recently got some more widespread exposure with the seeming (to me) rise in posts that made me a little leery.

Maybe I have finally developed a tinfoil hat.

Anyway, I am hoping that the post was my catharsis and now I can forget about it after getting it off my chest.

Sorry to spread the bad vibes,
C-
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Old February 28, 2005, 11:12 PM   #10
Rich Lucibella
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Quote:
That's why i apologized like 3 times in my posts: i just didnt know how to bring this up without risking ticking people off.
There was no need to apologize even once, cp. Staff has also noted the influx of apparently, ummm, "pubescent" personalities.....mainly due to heads up from Members.

Just takes a little time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It was a valid observation and we thank you.
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Old March 1, 2005, 12:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
I really ENJOY talking about some 'illegal' topics like full autos, how to convert them etc- its interesting and mechanical and fun.
While I fully realize you wouldnt do these kind of things, The Batf doesnt see it that way. I would highly recommend avoiding conversations on the subject of altering a firearm to an illegal form. May bring yourself more trouble than its worth. Just my 2 cents. Thanks Rich for touching base on this.
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Old March 1, 2005, 09:32 AM   #12
cpileri
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very good, sir

RL,
Thanks for the validation.

tl2,
Yeah, I hear you. Just cuz I'd like to be free to discuss whatever I wanted without fear of repercussion doesn't mean I will ever do it- that is i will neither make a conversion nor speak of doing so. I have too much to lose right now.

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Last edited by cpileri; March 1, 2005 at 09:33 AM. Reason: qerg
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Old March 1, 2005, 05:55 PM   #13
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Seriously I'm with cpilari here. I've read alot of posts lately by members that make me doubt considerably their level of maturity and common sense and it scares me that they even own a firearm. Posts that go something like this.
1) How loud will it be if I shoot my gun inside my car?
2) What happens when I shoot straight up in the air?
3) If someone calls me a bad name, can I shoot him?
4) Who else carries grenade launchers and proximity mines in their trunk?
5) If I shoot someone with my .22 short will they fly over my dining room table and through a glass window?
6) Does it hurt when you get shot?
7) Whats the best method of concealment while sitting on the john?
8) Where can I get parts to convert my Remington model 700 to full auto?
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Old March 1, 2005, 06:06 PM   #14
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I replied to one of the threads you listed with:

Quote:
Lots of good comments, but I just have to add (for all of us here):
don't,
don't,
don't make posts which suggest that you are planning to break a law - those can come back to hurt you. Something that is a hypothetical or a joke or a reductio ad absurdam may not be understood as such if your words are used against you in court. As adults we have the right to think through moral questions and to use our best judgement, but "thinking out loud" on the internet should be done with caution.
I think I'm going to save that as a stock paragraph. Some people here don't understand that what they post may be used later to ruin their lives.
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Old March 1, 2005, 06:18 PM   #15
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I'm a big believer in personal responsibility, rather than Moderator Coddling. We make exceptions for the true novice with good intentions and some of TFL's greatest successes have been with young people brave enough to ask....AND LEARN.

As to the rest....Think Twice, Post Once is a motto we've used for more than half a decade. Your words are your own. What ramifications they may have go far beyond what actions Staff may choose to take. This is an unfortunate by-product of Thought Crimes (now generally described under "Conspiracy To [fill in your flavor]"). But it's a reality of life in a shrinking America.
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Old March 2, 2005, 12:30 PM   #16
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re-posting

Dear Staff:
I agree we need to be personally responsible. I agree with staffs concerns. If, at anytime post something that they deem inapropriate I hope they will post my name and correct me publically!
On the horizon we all may be facing a presidential candidate that will try to take away the rights of responsible firearms owners and we need not give them fodder for their cannons! These people are always there; this is a proud nation of riflemen, of freedom, of responsibility. When I see court decisions coming down as crazy as they are it scares me! When I hear of the terrible abductions, murders, etc in the news I cringe - and these people get fancy-dan lawyers and many times get off.
I've got one pet pieve: asking if anyone has some "HOT" loads for a certain caliber? Talk about a lawsuit! NEVER, NEVER GO ABOVE A LOADING MANUAL MAXIMUM LOAD FOR A CERTAIN CALIBER!
These loads are AVERAGE maximums! Never go above; they have their reasons!
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Old March 2, 2005, 08:08 PM   #17
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I didn't read through all those posts you linked. I did read a couple and they are clearly illegal.
BUT, keep in mind that what may be illegal where you live, probably isn't illegal everywhere. Also keep in mind that what might be illegal for you to do, isn't nessessarily illegal for everyone to do.
Over the years I have seen posts by people who lived outside the United States who were immedately jumped on for posting something that was illegal. NO, it wasn't illegal where they lived. The internet, and this board are not confined to US citizens.
I have seen posts stating that owning a machine gun is illegal. I have seen posts saying that suppressors were illegal etc. None of this is true. I have seen posts advertising things like Sten parts kits, M16 parts etc immediately jumped on as being illegal, when if fact there are many people who own Stens and M16s legally who might want to buy these items.
Even this statement: "I really ENJOY talking about some 'illegal' topics like full autos, how to convert them etc" Isn't true. Full Auto is not illegal. Converting something to full auto isn't even illegal in the US IF you have the right license.

My opinion only: Let the police do the policing.
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Old March 3, 2005, 03:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Even this statement: "I really ENJOY talking about some 'illegal' topics like full autos, how to convert them etc" Isn't true. Full Auto is not illegal. Converting something to full auto isn't even illegal in the US IF you have the right license
I think everyone who commented here realizes a person can own a Full Auto legally and convert a semi auto to a full auto by paying the two hundred dollar tax to obtain the full auto parts. I think what most of us are reffering to are the posts that people made that were in no way of a legal nature. Enuff said.
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Old March 8, 2005, 12:09 PM   #19
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Just to keep the record straight - - -

thelast2 wrote:
Quote:
I think everyone who commented here realizes a person can own a Full Auto legally and convert a semi auto to a full auto by paying the two hundred dollar tax to obtain the full auto parts.
(Emphasis added.) Not really, no, not in the USA. There was a time this was true. Since May '86 (I BELIEVE this is the correct date) no new registrations are accepted and no manufacture of full auto weapons for non-official use is legal. Yes, you may legally purchase an already registered full auto firearm by doing the paperwork and paying the tax.

No flame intended - - just didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.

Best,
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Old March 8, 2005, 04:17 PM   #20
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I really think a majority of over-the-top posts you see here or any forum site for that matter is from the following:
1.)Legit newcomer questions.
1.)People just looking for an arguement for lack of better things to do.
2.)People who intend to boost their "net rep" because they have no self-esteem and want eveyone to think they are the terminator or whatever.
I have read some things here that have made me uneasy, but I just hope it's people trying to act like they are tough. You'd think be reading some posts some are just anxiously waiting for someone to look at them wrong so they can pull a gun a prove how tough they are. It's kinda scary and could give people looking for a reason to dislike gunowners a good one. My suggestion is to NOT POST REPLIES to stupidity. If it's a legit question, by all means answer, but when some idiot asks whether it's OK to defend himself against verbal abuse with frag grenades and a flamethrower, just ignore it and move on. My two cents. Happy shooting!
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Old December 15, 2005, 01:41 PM   #21
cpileri
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Here we go again

So it begins anew...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171177

C-
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Old December 15, 2005, 02:31 PM   #22
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tfl

the firing line is the best firearm forum on the net. i have seen a lot of them. this one is true.
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Old December 15, 2005, 03:44 PM   #23
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cpileri

The post you refer to must have been pulled. I couldn't access it, even after logging in. What was it in reference to?
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Old December 15, 2005, 03:50 PM   #24
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That thread is from THR, not TFL, and has been dealt with appropriately over there.
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