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Old February 19, 2005, 04:28 PM   #1
Gunmann
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KIMBER Quality??????

It seems that Kimber produces a pretty good gun for the money. Ive owned several and they shoot unbeliveable. As good as the Les Baer I owned and a whole lot more reliable.

I now have a Kimber CDP PRO II commander clone It comes with night sites
and everything you would want on a 1911 carry gun.

Compared to Colts downhill spiral in quality and the other big companies seem to be going down in quality too (Not including Glock or SIG.

It seems Kimber is getting the special ops contracts too.What are your opinions on Kimber?
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Old February 19, 2005, 04:31 PM   #2
Rick 1966
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All I know is that I have loved every single Kimber I've owned,
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Old February 19, 2005, 04:33 PM   #3
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Ayoob just had a great write up on Kimber where he called them the best choice in 1911 for LEO because they are completely reliable, accurate, and well made. He also praised the series two safety which is a bit taboo on the internet.

I have several experiences with Kimber and I personally feel they are worth every penny. I'll stop short of saying they are "better" than Springfield and others because there are a lot of quality firearms out there, but you really can't go wrong with a Kimber.
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Old February 19, 2005, 04:34 PM   #4
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They contract one hell of a slide, barrel and frame (S&W still doing it?), then fill those excellent core parts with breakage prone MIM. Occasionally, they put out immense QC gaffs where the gun can't be fixed.


Most current reports on the Colt products seem excellent, but the Colts aren't decked out as nicely.



I wouldn't trust my life to a Kimber, unless I got to replace a bunch of the innerds. But they do well as a range gun, unless something breaks.
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Old February 19, 2005, 05:05 PM   #5
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I had a kimber (and handy will get a laugh out of this) with the polymer frame, but had to trade it for the HK I needed

It worked well while I had it (couple of years). After the break-in period, it functioned flawlessly
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Old February 19, 2005, 05:16 PM   #6
HappyGunner
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No quality problems with mine

All three of my Kimbers have great quality. Great fits of materials and they have shot well after the standard breakin.
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Old February 19, 2005, 05:27 PM   #7
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Excellent firearms! Don't like Kimber though because they don't completely build their own firearms.
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Old February 19, 2005, 05:38 PM   #8
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Then who does build Kimbers?

I am posting about their (Kimbers) 1911s. Last time I checked they were machined and built... frames... slides.. and barrels at Kimbers plant in Yonkers NY. If your meaning the small MIM parts and springs this might be correct.
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Old February 20, 2005, 09:28 AM   #9
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Kimber does, in fact, make its own frames and slides these days. Their guns are likelier to run out of the box than Springfields (which come from the factory with slack extractors all too frequently,) and are about on par with current Colts in that regard. (and if it wasn't for Springfield and Kimber, Colt wouldn't make as nice a 1911 as they do today.)


I think they sell as good of a frame/slide/barrel kit as any of the other major 1911 manufacturers these days.

As far as QC goes, there are (as Handy mentioned) the occasional disturbing failures of subcontracted MIM bits on the guns (about as rare in real life, but as publicized on the Errornet as exploding Glocks.) There's also the fact that whatever the machine is that they use to etch that cursive "Kimber" logo on the side of the slide, it can simulate tool chatter quite convincingly.
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Old February 21, 2005, 06:32 PM   #10
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Kimber is making their MIM parts in house now and have been for a while so the article says. There is a good article in American Handgunner last month on the subject. As far as parts breakage goes, I can tell you for a fact many machined parts on other makers pistols break on occasion also. Quality MIM parts have a density 99% of the barstock parts and are plenty strong. My Kimbers have proven so over time to me also. In fact they have been the finest 1911's I have bought out of the box. Nice tight fitting of slide and proper fitting of the barrels and parts. I can't say I have ever bought a Colt with the barrel even remotely fit correctly or a slide that didn't slop around on the rails.
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Old February 21, 2005, 06:50 PM   #11
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Kimber Pro-Carry.

Works great, MIM parts were replaced (not by me but the original owner). Works great, looks good.

Now, that being said, it is of the aluminum frame. Harsh and very ugly marks on the frame from using McCormick mags. The follower has a way of sliding under the barrel ass'y and creating the marks. Looks ugly as heck, but I, as the now owner, can see them.

Other then that, great pistol.

Last edited by USP45usp; February 21, 2005 at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling, yet again :(
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Old February 21, 2005, 09:13 PM   #12
Robert Allison
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I have the Kimber Eclipse Pro II, which I like a lot, but it needed a trigger job to fix a poor interface between the trigger and grip-safety, the latter of which would often fail to disengage when the gun was held with a high hand position, thumb on the thumb-safety, ala IPSC or IDPA.

I've also heard some complaints from local LEOs about the durability of the new external extractors, but have had no problems with it myself.
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Old February 21, 2005, 09:20 PM   #13
abelew
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I had one, loved it, was the polymer frame, had to get rid of it for a duty gun. Worked like a dream.
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Old February 21, 2005, 09:39 PM   #14
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I'll be the wrench and say that the 2 I had were less than impressive. The first was too tight chambered to be reliable. My smith fixed that but it's irritating to have to fix a 1000.00 gun. The second was a lightweight and was just, well finicky. I currently own 2 1911's and they are both Colts. A 1995 model and a 1987 commander. My next 1911 will be a S&W sc.
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Old February 21, 2005, 10:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Ayoob just had a great write up on Kimber where he called them the best choice in 1911 for LEO because they are completely reliable, accurate, and well made.
I can't think that Ayoob knows much about Law Enforcement if he thinks a single action 1911-style auto is the best choice considering what else is out there these days in double action.
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Old February 21, 2005, 10:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Compared to Colts downhill spiral in quality
I have two Colts and both are excellent.
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Old February 21, 2005, 10:45 PM   #17
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Frank Drebin

"I can't think that Ayoob knows much about Law Enforcement if he thinks a single action 1911-style auto is the best choice considering what else is out there these days in double action."

That's not what he said Frank, he said best choice in a 1911---not best choice for law enforcement.

Ayoob is a cop, gunwriter, competition shooter, author, and founded and runs the Lethal Force Institute. In my opinion he's superb in all these endeavors and has never been a whore for the gun makers by endorsing their products without believing in them. He once caught hell from Glock for telling the truth, and he never backed down in the face of threats from the Glock folks. His Cop Talk column in American Handgunner is very good, as is The Ayoob Files, not to mention his contribution to Combat Handguns. Nobody more accurately researches actual shootings before he puts them into print. Try reading Ayoob Files, the Book.

Oh yes, if you view his excellent tape Stess Fire Series Part One, guess what his personal pistol is. You're right--a Kimber
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Old February 21, 2005, 10:57 PM   #18
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I saw a recent rumor that S&W was going to stop making frames/slides for other mfgs. Kind of scary since many of the top MFG's use their parts.

I am surprised Handy is not all up in arms about those MFG's charging just as much for their pistols without having to tool up their own slides and frames

Too busy casting aspersions on Kimbers quality I guess.

I don't really have an axe to grind...I have one Kimber that I am very happy with...but I have not really had a bad 1911 and I haveowned/still own S/A, STI, S&W, and COLT as well. The anecdotal evidence that they (1911's)need a lot of work is based on 10-20 year old information. (like the S&W slide/frame thing)

I try to stay current ..it helps not to believe everyhting you hear/read.

I saw a statement from Hilton Yam, who actually builds 1911's (as well as carrying them) that put MIM in perspective

He said that there was nothing wrong with MIM...that was done right

Any more than there was anything intrinsically wrong with any other MFG process. Same as the cast frame /forged frame war....a well cast frame is a lot better than a poorly forged frame...well...you get the idea.

In fact, the only problem he had with MIM parts were that they ate up his files because they were often very hard.

He said;

"I have numerous personal guns and customer guns out there with MIM slide stops, FP stops, disconnectors, mag catches, and safeties, and they've all held up fine with the guns having between 10k and 20k+ out of each."

MIM is here to stay. The fact that some MFG's are using the hype to help market MIM-Free weapons does not make it bad. That is just marketing. It works so of course they will keep doing it.

As to choices

I have had exactly one pistol that would not/could not be fixed and Kahr replaced it for me. And yet I don't feel the need to advise the masses that Kahrs are junk....even though that reflects my own very limited experience.

And oh yeah...I read something about it on the internet

Lots of people...police and military alike are choosing 1911's..people that go in harms way....not chairborne rangers People that need their weapons to work...every time. People that fire more rounds in training than most of the experts on this board (no...I didn't mean you!)

But what do they know

Doesn't mean you should.....or shouldn't go out and buy one
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Old February 21, 2005, 11:13 PM   #19
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never mind.....
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Old February 21, 2005, 11:19 PM   #20
Tamara
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FrankDrebin,

Quote:
I can't think that Ayoob knows much about Law Enforcement if he thinks a single action 1911-style auto is the best choice considering what else is out there these days in double action.
I can't tell if you're joking or if you really aren't parsing the difference between the phrases:

"[The Kimber is] the best choice in a 1911 for LEO use."

and

"1911's are the best choice for LEO use."

The two sentences mean completely different things.

Incidentally, of the KimfieldColts, only Kimber seems to be aggressively marketing towards, and offering serious support for, the LEO market. They've made a lot of hay from the Tacoma PD and LAPD SWAT deals.
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Old February 21, 2005, 11:33 PM   #21
FrankDrebin
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Yes, now that I read it again, I see that he's not saying that it's the best choice overall for Law enforcement....
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Old February 22, 2005, 03:39 AM   #22
TBT
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But a lot of departments choose the 1911 and especially the Kimber over "what else is out there these days in double action". It's a viable choice, and Ayoob is correct in saying so.
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Old February 22, 2005, 06:05 AM   #23
FrankDrebin
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Quote:
But a lot of departments choose the 1911 and especially the Kimber over "what else is out there these days in double action". It's a viable choice, and Ayoob is correct in saying so.
For a SWAT team maybe that's going to train with the right mindset. For the average cop who shoots a couple times a year? No way. Ayoob is a part timer on a department with 2 full-time officers. Try issuing a single action auto to be carried cocked with the safety on to a typical big city department and see what happens. I don't think "a lot" of departments percentage-wise choose any kind of 1911.
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Old February 22, 2005, 10:14 AM   #24
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I just know I am gonna be sorry

Please...tell me Frank...what will happen ??

Other than they might actually hit what they aim at

I know having that big ole hammer back makes some people nervous, but other than ulcers, what are we concerned with (afraid of) exactly?

Percentage wise, I think most departments choose Glocks....but I still may be missing your point.

For the record, I am not certain someone that shoots a couple times a year should carry any weapon. If they do, they might be served by the DA/Safety/empty chamber approach...which is arguably almost the same thing!
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Old February 22, 2005, 10:18 AM   #25
Ala Dan
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IMHO, Ayoob is full of BS. In 1995 my department (80 officers) outlawed
the use of any single-action semi-autos; bar none! Those who were
carrying 1911's switched over to Glock's, SIG's, H&K's, even one
officer chose a Ruger P-90.

Carrying a 1911 style semi-auto in condition 1 requires proper training
and lots of practice and patience; as they are not for everybody.

Best Wishes,
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