The Firing Line Forums
Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > S.W.A.T. Magazine

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 10, 2004, 02:02 PM   #1
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
S.W.A.T. -- The Real Deal?

At the risk of sounding like I’m just bashing the competition, the main difference between S.W.A.T.. and other publications is the credibility/experience of the authors who write for us. The hostage taking incident that took place at the Mexican Consulate yesterday (11/9/04) is a good example.

An LAPD Metro sergeant ended the incident with a single shot from a .223 to the hostage-takers brain housing group. Veteran LAPD officer and S.W.A.T. staff writer Scott Reitz trained the sergeant.

I can’t begin to express how proud I am to be associated with the likes of Scott, Pat, Louis, Clint, Jeff and the other professionals who take time off from their real jobs to write for S.W.A.T.

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10, 2004, 10:52 PM   #2
garrettwc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2001
Posts: 641
Quote:
At the risk of sounding like I’m just bashing the competition, the main difference between S.W.A.T.. and other publications is the credibility/experience of the authors who write for us.
It ain't bashing if you can do it.

The only thing I will add is that even the best team is useless without a dedicated leader. And SWAT is fortunate to have a great one.

Please accept my humble thanks oh great editor guru. Keep up the good work.
garrettwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2004, 11:42 AM   #3
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
Update from Scotty:
Initial information was that the bad guy was taken out with a .223. Turns out it was a single shot from a .45.

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2004, 12:22 PM   #4
KSFreeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2001
Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America
Posts: 5,416
Wow! Looked like a long shot as well? Or, as we would sometimes say here, "a fur peace."

Stressed, excited, people yelling, confusion, probably holding on him a while, that's a well-trained man!
__________________
"Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).
KSFreeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11, 2004, 01:22 PM   #5
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
Yep. Well-trained saved the day. Or, as Pat Rogers says, "In a time of crisis one will not rise to the occasion, but default to the level of his training."

After the above case is fully adjudicated, I'll try and get Scotty to write it up for his Frontline Debriefs column.

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12, 2004, 03:56 AM   #6
C_Yeager
Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Posts: 90
From seeing it on TV it was a damn fine shot.

More important than the marksmanship itself is that the had the CONFIDENCE in his training to even take the shot, not many men would in that situation. That speaks volumes as to the quality of training that he recieved as well as his own ability and decisiveness.
C_Yeager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12, 2004, 10:15 AM   #7
Kirk Keller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 808
Denny and crew, as always love the mag. Well done and getting better all the time.
__________________
Proud TFL Alumnus
Kirk Keller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12, 2004, 02:03 PM   #8
Phil306
Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2004
Location: Dublin, California
Posts: 76
If you have ever taken a course from Scott, you know he spends alot of time working on hostage targets and moving targets. Also his knife attack system. Generally speaking, he doesn't "waste" alot of time on BS which does not work.

As Denny said about writers, I will say about trainers. I used to go to everyone under the sun. Now, I have it narrowed down to a small hand full. And Scott is at the top of that hand full.

Thin The Herd
__________________
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Sir Winston Churchill
Phil306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2, 2004, 09:04 PM   #9
CAGoatee
Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2004
Location: "Kah-leefornia"
Posts: 64
Training

Quote:
Yep. Well-trained saved the day. Or, as Pat Rogers says, "In a time of crisis one will not rise to the occasion, but default to the level of his training."
Denny,

You are dead-bang accurate on that one!

There is an old sports adage - which I have never forgotten - that fits in quite nicely with the Pat Rogers quote, i.e., "How you train is how you will play".

Happy Holidays, stay safe, and have fun shooting.
__________________
"To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill, but to defeat the enemy without fighting, that is the highest skill". (Asian Martial Arts Proverb)

"Those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat it." (Anon.)

Last edited by CAGoatee; December 2, 2004 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Clarification
CAGoatee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3, 2004, 01:22 AM   #10
RWK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 20, 1999
Location: Occupied Virginia
Posts: 2,777
Quote:
"In a time of crisis one will not rise to the occasion, but default to the level of his training."
Truer words have NEVER been said.
__________________
__________________
Μολών λαβέ!
RWK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21, 2004, 11:35 PM   #11
Spectre
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 23, 1998
Location: DC
Posts: 3,274
Quote:
the main difference between S.W.A.T.. and other publications is the credibility/experience of the authors who write for us
I think this is usually the case, but one of the last issues I read showed some HTH stuff, and one of the illustrations showed a guy getting whacked in the arm with a stick, with the notation that the blow would probably shatter the bones. I call bull****.

ASP claims that its batons have never broken bones when used in a similar fashion, and the ASP baton is denser than the stick illustrated. I have engaged in stick training for years, and I have never heard similar claims for such a strike from teachers I respect. I am angry that nonsense like this slipped past editorial censure.

Denny, I have the utmost respect for you. Please keep SWAT the sterling magazine I'm eager to go to for factual information.

John R. Shirley
Spectre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22, 2004, 12:29 PM   #12
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
Thanks for your input, John. My experience with stick fighting is limited mainly to a 24" straight and side-handle batons. I don't know if folks who engage in stick training pad up and if so to what extent. Also don't know if ya'll go at it full force with the adenaline overload that kicks in during a real fight.

I can say that the raduis and ulna bones are not particulary stong and often times when one is broken both are. Your training in this area is obviously more intense than mine, and you have every right to call bull based on your experience. However, I have personally seen the forearm of one bad guy (who came at a fellow deputy with a broken bottle) broken with a 24" straight baton--roughly the same diameter and density as a fighting cane.

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22, 2004, 10:58 PM   #13
Spectre
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 23, 1998
Location: DC
Posts: 3,274
Quote:
I have personally seen the forearm of one bad guy...broken with a 24" straight baton
Always nice to have first-hand feedback. (The deputy in question was unharmed, I hope?) I believe that it's unreasonable to expect to break the bones of an adversary's moving limb in the direction shown, but of course, almost anything is possible.

John
Spectre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2005, 06:54 PM   #14
CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2005
Location: The Home of the Brave
Posts: 77
As Usual Denny is RIGHT ON The Money

Denny hits the nail on the head. Or should I say "brain housing group"? SWAT is a top notch magazine and Denny helps keep it that way.

P.S. Denny, we'd love to see a story on the upcoming 3-Gun National Championship this October in Las Vegas.
CAPTAIN MIKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2005, 06:58 PM   #15
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
Cap'n,
Had not heard about it. Give me more details via mail: denny@swatmag.com

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2005, 07:13 AM   #16
Brit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 852
Stick strike

(The deputy in question was unharmed, I hope?)

If you have a baton in hand, gun isen't! and to strike with what is already in this hand is much faster than any drop and go for your side arm.

Having said that!! A vee shaped hair style would be my first thought!
What ever worked can't be beat either!
Brit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2005, 02:46 PM   #17
leadbutt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2002
Location: Tidewater,Virginia
Posts: 289
Denny, that didn't even make the news East coast side ,here in my area,, sounds like he learned his lessons well and put them to good use.. Hope there were no others harm by the HT.

Oh by the by great magazine
__________________
"I am always willing to learn,but not always willing to be taught"
Sir Winston Churchill
leadbutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2005, 03:42 PM   #18
Denny Hansen
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 2,364
No, the deputy was not hurt. Acutally the incident happened long ago--in '83 I think--just before my department switched from straight batons to side handles.

Denny
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Denny Hansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Page generated in 0.11172 seconds with 9 queries