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Old December 30, 2004, 11:57 AM   #1
Don Martin
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How to operate a bolt action in rapid fire?

What is the proper or best way to operate a Mauser type magazine bolt action rifle? My specific question is relevant to dangerous game from the standing positon. How do you hold the bolt handle or do you "slap" it open?
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Old December 30, 2004, 02:25 PM   #2
Erich
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Same way you get to Carnegie Hall . . .

(Practice, practice, practice! )

I just slap my bolts. I'm a lefty, and I just take my right hand off the forestock, whack the bolt up and back, slap it forward, continue the motion to replace my hand on the stock, fire, and repeat.

Several of my milsurp shooting friends have commented on how quickly I can aim, shoot and repeat left-handed. I shoot a lot faster than they do right-handed. The simple truth is that I've shot up a lot of milsurp ammo over the years.

You might think about getting a Yugo M48 and a whole ton of Turk ball ammo for cheap, just to practice rapid-firing with the Mauser action. That practice should translate effectively to your dangerous game Mauser . . . .

(Hey! 1500 posts! Cool. )
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Old December 30, 2004, 07:07 PM   #3
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I've got a lefty friend, his only cartridged gun is a right-hander bolty .22 repeater. He can get off all 7 shots, unaimed, in roughly 2 seconds... I can't give specifics on if he holds the bolt or not, but he does use his left hand for shooting and his right hand to cycle the bolt...
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Old December 30, 2004, 08:23 PM   #4
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second teh yugo and buttloads of ammo.

some ammo has a tendancy to make the bolt 'stick', so you may have to try a few different types of surplus ammo. the romanian '77 thats found in sealed 'spam' cans is fairly good.

i read a suggestion about twisting the rifle with your support hand as you unlock the bolt back, to shorten the actual distance you turn the bolt, and twist back as you close the bolt. didnt work for me, so what i do is grip the stock with my support hand tightly as i unshoulder, and just work the bolt open sharply. if it dont get a good grip on it, it does slow things up just a hair.

i like to practice it on steel targets (such as an empty propane tank) about 50 yards out. you can hear the round hit and if its late in the day around pre-dusk you can start to see the sparks fly.

made an odd discovery about sparks as well. turns out certain rockface creates sparks as well. its probably common knowledge, but i just found this out myself. yaaaay me!
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Old December 30, 2004, 11:26 PM   #5
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numbers = knowledge

>> Several of my milsurp shooting friends have commented on how quickly I can aim, shoot and repeat left-handed.

Either you're quick, or your friends are just really slow. ;-)

What are your split times (time from shot to shot)? Please give the size of the target and distance.

>> He can get off all 7 shots, unaimed, in roughly 2 seconds...

Eh, how about hitting something? Or do we just enjoy converting money into noise. ;-)

>> i like to practice it on steel targets about 50 yards out.

OK, what size is the target and what are your splits?

TIA for sharing!
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Old December 31, 2004, 04:48 PM   #6
spacemanspiff
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you know those small propane tanks? 5 gal i think.
usually a lot of those at the unregulated range i go to every couple of months. the taller ones i'll stand up and space them 10 yards apart, and then try to knock them down with one shot as quickly as possible.

out of five rounds, i usually get 4 hits. i've started taking a can of spray paint out there with me so i can make whatever propane tanks or other steel objects stand out against the iron sights. helps quite a bit. either pink or orange paint works for me.

had fun one day with a stumpy boulder, about 2 feet high, out 100 yards. that romanian surplus ammo was making mince meat out of the boulder.
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Old December 31, 2004, 08:19 PM   #7
huntershooter
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numbers = knowledge (but only if you have the numbers...)

>> you know those small propane tanks? 5 gal i think.

OK, a 5 gallon proprane at 50 yards. We have target size and distance.

Now, to the point of the thread ("How to operate a bolt action in rapid fire"):

What are your split times?

>> the taller ones i'll stand up and space them 10 yards apart, and then try to knock them down with one shot as quickly as possible.

Right, I still understand the concept. Again, what is your shot-to-shot speed when shooting a bolt action rifle, given 5 gallon propane tanks at 50 yards?

Ask a football player how fast he is and he'll probably give you his 40 yard dash time. ("I can run the 40 in 4.7 seconds.") Numbers equal knowledge.
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Old December 31, 2004, 09:30 PM   #8
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well i havent actually timed myself, ashamed to admit. and i wouldnt trust my counting in my head 'one thousand one, one thousand two, etc' as i'm shooting. so when i drag someone out with me, i'll make sure we have a stop watch and time from the first shot to the fifth trigger pull.

the whole thing is a matter of timing. time yourself while you dryfire, and figure that you gotta add a few tenths of a second between each shot, maybe as much as a half second between shots.

next time i'll get to a range will probably be the ninth. will be shooting at paper targets though, not propane tanks.
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Old January 1, 2005, 12:01 AM   #9
Erich
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I've never been timed. There's no event for 200-meter gong-ringing with a Mauser or Mosin (that I'm aware of), so we mostly play for fun.
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Old January 1, 2005, 12:21 PM   #10
Don Martin
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Are there military instructions for say the Mauser, Springfield 03, SMLE or others?

To just conclude if the bolt is to be held by the forefinger and thumb or to be "slapped" with perhaps the palm of the hand for part of the bolts travel would answer my question.

The advice or instructions do not have to be only for the standing position but could be for any postition.

Thanks

Don

The attachment is from the Winchester manual.
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Old January 1, 2005, 01:29 PM   #11
Ozzieman
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Slaping has not worked for me

Once the round has fired (Right handed) my had comes off the trigger and with an open flat right hand HIT the bolt upward with the palm. When it hits the stop I run my hand into a fist closing around the bolt and at the same time pull it all the way back.
When it hits the stops again I rotate my had over the top and push forward, when it hits the stops I push down and open my hand. When it closes all the way my hand is in the correct position to get back on the trigger and bang.
Its east to do, but hard to do smothly and as some one here smarter than me said it best
PRACTICE< PRACTICE, practice, there is only one thing I can add
Practice
There are faster ways, but when it comes to dangerious targest, I feel that the smother more controled way is better than just speed.
The important thing is not just relaoding the gun but to get your hand back on the trigger and head back onto position for the shot.
Like one other person put it, fast is great if all your doing is exchanging money for noise.
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Old January 1, 2005, 04:15 PM   #12
30Cal
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I did some flipping through FM23-10 (US Rifle Caliber .30 M1903).

Para 43 starts bolt manipulation exercises. The trigger was tied to the rear to ensure that the bolt required the correct camming force to open and close. Then they cycled the bolt with the initial goal of 20 times in 20 seconds. A trained operator could get off an aimed shot every 4.5 seconds. Special emphasis was given to make sure the shooter did not take his eyes off the target at anytime.

They also did cadence exercises starting at 10 seconds per shot and working down to 6 seconds per shot.

Ty
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Old January 2, 2005, 01:52 PM   #13
AK103K
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I work the bolt with an open hand and never really grab onto it. The knob mostly sits in my palm and my palm just moves over the knob in the direction it wants it to go. Dont know if that makes any sense, but it works very fast and smooth for me. Of course the butt is being held tight in the shoulder by pulling on the forearm with the left hand while all this is going on and your eyes are on the target as best they can be.
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Old February 6, 2005, 01:51 PM   #14
Mike40-11
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Quote:
Eh, how about hitting something? Or do we just enjoy converting money into noise. ;-)
I know this thread's a little old, and I don't really have anything to contribute, but damn I thought that was funny!
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Old February 10, 2005, 12:19 PM   #15
Wraith
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Learn to shoot with your opposite eye and hand. This allows one to operate the bolt with their strong hand on the inside rather than outside of the body. Very fast shooting can be done this way. My grandfather is convinced that this is how Oswald shot during the assassination... if it were truely Oswald.
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