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Old January 24, 2005, 10:26 AM   #1
calvin62
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why does every deer shot have to be huge?

This year [2004] my son shot his first deer. it was a young doe and he was so proud I never seen him smile like that before. and I'm happier about then if I shot the world record. our experience in the woods was the best hunt of my life! but that started changing for him almost as soon as we left the woods. tI cant count the number of times we heard ;
[ little]
[just a doe]
[small]
[I would have let him go]
and many other similar things from people that just dont think how they are making him feel, people that should be patting him on the back

I'm still proud of him but he has started to feel bad because it's not a 12 pt buck, doesnt weigh 250 lbs, he didnt shoot it from 400 yds away,

when I started hunting any deer you shot was a great deer now we ,magazines , tv , and other hunters brainwashed by all the media hype are telling these kids if it's not big enough, if it doesn't score 200 b&c, if the rack isnt wider then the ears, somehow it's less of a trophy ,less of a kill, doesnt count in their eyes .

how do we expect these kids to learn the art of killing a deer. if they are suppose to hold out for that once in a lifetime buck as their very first deer.
how do they learn what you can get away with when a deer is in front of them. how do they learn to control buck fever. HOW DO THEY LEARN !!

When you say anything but praise to that young [or old] hunter with his first deer, remember your first deer and how you felt then and dont s**t on their feelings!!

we hunt in east central wisconsin and have some of the most pressured and educated deer around . so telling him to wait for a large buck is ridiculous when your lucky to get one good shot oportunity a year!

so you trophy hunters that look down on our small puny deer go f**k yourself because the taste great and its suppose to be the hunt not the size of the rack that count's!

Last edited by calvin62; January 24, 2005 at 11:18 PM.
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Old January 24, 2005, 11:26 AM   #2
Ohio Annie
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Around my neck of the woods, we like does best because they are more tender and taste better, especially during the rut when bucks are so tough and gamey. All I want is a small apartment-freezer-sized doe.
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Old January 24, 2005, 11:52 AM   #3
jerryd
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I have never been able to tell the difference in weight or sex when it has been on my plate!!! Maybe bragging rights?, they all taste good!
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Old January 24, 2005, 12:20 PM   #4
FirstFreedom
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I agree. It's silly. Specially for a kid. Does are tasty! My buddy did shoot a TINY doe this year - like 35 pounds if lucky after gutting - he didn't even check it, since he was embarrassed. ANY deer (without spots) is good for a FIRST deer, or with a BOW! After that, they must be bigger than my akita dog during rifle season, is the only requirement.
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Old January 24, 2005, 01:09 PM   #5
rbernie
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Within my lifetime, hunting for trophies has seemed to become more of a motivation for most than hunting for food. That means that you're going to run into an awful lot of folks who are gonna go out seeking big horns-or-antlers, and everything else (including learning how to actually hunt well) is secondary.

It's only natural that people are going to judge your kids' accomplishments based upon their personal criteria. Your job as a Dad (spoken as one who's also got the same job description) is to instill in your kid the proper amount of pride in his efforts and to make sure that he knows the pros and cons of what he's done. If you do that correctly, then all of the 'other stuff' becomes background noise.
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Old January 24, 2005, 03:39 PM   #6
Hawkman
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We're running over with deer here in Georgia. Our license this year included 10 does and 2 bucks. Every year I shoot a doe, preferably one small enough to be easily field dressed and dragged out of the inaccessible spots I hunt and still fill the freezer. Forget trophy hunting. Your son did great! Don't let anyone take that away from him!
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Old January 24, 2005, 03:47 PM   #7
calvin62
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I have the skull mount of every deer I have ever taken from doe fawns to a 12 pointer. when we did his skull mount I showed him it is bigger then my first deer. we discussed and I hope that he does understand that a clean kill and having fun is more impotant then the size of the deer.

But the back ground noise is awfull loud to a young teenage boy. especialy when it comes from hunters and people he looks up to who unintensionely say things that down play his achievment.
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Old January 24, 2005, 04:01 PM   #8
Abby
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That sucks! (The comments, that is, not anyone's non-trophy deer).

I'm a firm believer that young/beginning hunters need to be ENCOURAGED at every step, whether it's a boy and his doe, or a grown man with his first squirrel!

Anyway, good on your son! He hunted, he succeeded, he brought home a deer!

May all the rude hunters you encountered step in dog poo while dragging out their monster deer, then track it into their trucks!
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Old January 24, 2005, 04:36 PM   #9
Rojoe67
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Nice....

Calvin, Your darn right.......heck I guess my son and I think a lot like you do. Your boy should be very happy to have taken a deer. My son and I sat for 3 days straight last year. I could tell he was getting worried he might not see anything. Then as luck had it, a doe came out and we took her. Wow, what a heck of a good payoff for some long time not seeing anything. It made the trip up north so special... I think some time us grown ups get a little over the top on the competition of "Look at that spread" and on and on. Your post is a good one as were the folks whom responded....

Enjoy the outdoors and savor every minute with your kid(s) while afield. If we are lucky when we are old and weak they will return the favor and take us out for a few great moments with Mother Earth and Mother Nature.

* As my son grows and matures, (I see a lot of me in him)... We often clash about daily life issues but come hunting time we seem to find a real bond that recharges the battery called life. -as my son matures, (I see a lot of him in me)..... Rojoe67
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Old January 24, 2005, 09:05 PM   #10
kjm
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In my neck of the woods, a doe- dressed out weighs between 59 and 64 lbs. I get to kill six a year and 2 spikes (really I can probably kill more spikes). I'm not in it for sport or bragging, I'm in it for meat and we rarely eat beef anymore.
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Old January 24, 2005, 10:26 PM   #11
Jeff Loveless
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Calvin,
Calm down man. Your his Father, right now he looks up to you and your approval more than anyone else. He's also learning about people. I don't blame you for venting though.

My teenage daughter hunts with me. Actually she hunts by herself now, but we have sat together many times. I never got a deer when she was with me but we still had a good time. We get along better in the woods than at home sometimes!

The last 2 years she has killed a doe. Fortunately we hunt in a club with folks that have some sense and don't act like your friends do.

The first year she set alone I encouraged her to shoot the first deer she wanted, buck or doe. This last year she wanted to wait for a buck, but as the season went on, after spending much patient time hunting, she finally took a doe and it was great. She has ambitions of killing a buck someday, naturally wants a BIG one. Don't we all! I get to experience something NO other human being in the world gets - I'm the first one to her when I hear her shoot. You can't beat that! So far, 2 shots 2 deer.

I really treasure the time and that she wants do some things we can enjoy and remember forever. You never know how long these things last - don't let some other people ruin it.
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Old January 24, 2005, 11:14 PM   #12
calvin62
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jeff your right I was venting and it came out angrier then I intended. but my point did come across in it and hopefully some of the people that read this forum will think twice before they say something hurtfull to a young [or any] hunter about their deer kill. nice to have a place to vent though !!
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Old January 25, 2005, 09:10 AM   #13
mete
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There's eatin' deer and there's braggin' deer. I'm a meat hunter and would rather have a doe than wait for a buck that never comes. The way to handle it is to thank the kid and congradulate him every time you eat that deer !!
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Old January 25, 2005, 09:37 AM   #14
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Not to worry, selective hunting pressures will eventually alter the population, culling the big bucks from the population prematurely and not allowing them as many opportunities to sire young. The result is that the smaller, not as often targeted bucks will be able to introduce a much greater amount of their genetic code into the population, gradually causing an overall decrease in the size of most animals.
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Old January 25, 2005, 09:50 AM   #15
Rmouleart
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In my book thats called meat on the table, and mighty tasty meat I might add,young and tender. I think some people are just jealous. Don't let them get to you, ask them were'e your deer. Good for your son,congrats, any deer downed is a trophy, some hunters hunt for years never to even cast there eye's on one. Tell your son to keep up the good work, Now its time to learn how to field dress a deer, now the real work is starting LOL. Take care and good hunting. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
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Old January 25, 2005, 08:37 PM   #16
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Calvin, welcome to TFL! That having been said, I think your son's deer was a good one. Its not the size of the deer that counts so much as the steadiness of the aim.

These last few years I have been concentrating on does a lot, their behavior, their habits...and methods to cook them. I can tell a lot of difference in meat between a doe and a buck and between little ones and big ones. The older the deer the longer it needs to be soaked in wine or the smaller it needs to be sliced to make it edible. I think your next step for your child is to make sure he knows how wonderful and tender, how tasty it is, until the last of it is gone from the freezer.

Then next year it might be good to tell the morons ahead of time that the only thing which keeps you from ripping them a new one is that you are too good to battle wits with the unarmed.
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Old January 25, 2005, 10:41 PM   #17
Lonestar.45
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I think it's a shame when folks do that to a kid, especially when it's his first deer. It just ain't right. My first deer was a yearling doe, and that deer is more special to me than any of the nice bucks I've shot since, because it was my first. It's fine to rib a guy about shooting a little deer, heck, buddies do it to each other all the time. But not to a new hunter or a kid, I get ticked off when I hear stuff like that. Really, I think one of the worst things that can happen to a new hunter is for them to shoot a huge buck for their first deer. After that, they'll never be satisfied with anything else, and it kinda ruins them on hunting.

Sure, a big buck is nice, but there's no shame in taking a doe or smaller deer. They're great eating, and I've heard it said many times, "you can't eat the antlers". Heck, many of my most memorable hunts and best times, I never even pulled the trigger! It sounds like you've got the right attitude, and your son is lucky to have a dad that'll keep his head on straight.
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Old January 26, 2005, 06:54 PM   #18
AKhunter
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'taint necessarily so...

Quote:
Not to worry, selective hunting pressures will eventually alter the population, culling the big bucks from the population prematurely and not allowing them as many opportunities to sire young. The result is that the smaller, not as often targeted bucks will be able to introduce a much greater amount of their genetic code into the population, gradually causing an overall decrease in the size of most animals.
This is assuming that all animals have equal hunting pressure exerted upon them, ie., they are all in the open or otherwise accessible to hunting. This isn't how it works in actuality. What actually happens is that the younger (read inexperienced) and less cautious deer are more accessible to hunting pressure while the more cautious and in some cases *all* older deer are inaccessible due to becoming almost purely nocturnal. Also, there is a counter pressure in that larger animals are more likely to breed and to survive predatory activities throughout the year as opposed to the limited time of hunting season. A removal of predation and hunting pressure *has* been shown to decrease the size of deer within a population due to starvation pressure--smaller animals, while less efficient, do eat less.

AK
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Old January 28, 2005, 06:15 PM   #19
Robert Garner
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flip side

First off
Congratulations to You and your son!
Whether its his first deer or whatever he accomplishes thru the coming yrs,
It should be enough that He has the Encouragement of his Father.and the Pride of his Mother,for him to judge himself by.
Yeah theres more than one kind of slob hunter, sad but true,be a good way to show him what not to aspire to right?
My partner and I were hunting a club lease, One young son,first time allowed out w/rifle took a very nice buck,10 or 12 points ,boy was puffed up as a red baloon,all the folk were proud,asking him where,how,and whaddya think? Stepped over and genuinely admired the buck, turned to the boy and said to him "that's a real nice deer,I'm Sorry" Well if he didn't de-flate!
His eyes got big enough to make it look so,and he asked why was I sorry?
Told him,"Son,I've been hunting for years,and aint never got one nice as him,
hope you don't hafta wait too long to get another that good."
The little fellah puffed right on up again!
Nothin nobody said to your boy meant half ,of what you said or did,well done!
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Old January 28, 2005, 06:41 PM   #20
GUNSMOKE45441
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How many deer did the big shots have?? LOL!!
Someone that would say that to a kid isn't worth listening to in the first place.
Cogratulations to your son, and to you for taking him.
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Old January 28, 2005, 07:31 PM   #21
Edward429451
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I laughed when I read your first post calvin! Thats funny. I like your attitude and think you're correct to feel that way.

Those guys that say that crap are the same guys who keep asking their wife if size really matters. Inferiority complex and ego problems. So caught up with 'being a MAN' and 'keeping up with the joneses' that they lose sight of whats good or important. They're glass is as they say, 1/2 empty.
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Old January 28, 2005, 07:52 PM   #22
ATTICUS
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I know more than a few "big buck hunters" who haven't killed a deer in years.
After hearing a hundred stories of "letting that little one go" I've concluded that most of them are just lazy or afraid to kill one.
It's the hunt that counts. Your boy should be proud. As long as you brag on him, I'll bet the other comments don't matter all that much.
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Old January 28, 2005, 08:12 PM   #23
Jseime
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good job

from an ecological point of view harvesting the big bucks is better for the population but considering that there are way too many deer to begin with and a trophy buck wasnt the objective thats a good deer. i saw quite a few very small deer get shot this year and a few big ones too. i shot one of each and the little one is way better on the table. some guys only hunt the big ones but those guys eat more beef too nine years out of ten . i enjoy givin a guy a run about missing a deer or shooting a bambi that "really did look bigger" but its all in fun and i wouldnt do it to a kid who just shot his first deer especailly if he did it in an ethical manner and was happy with himself.
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Old January 30, 2005, 09:18 PM   #24
JohnKSa
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Quote:
from an ecological point of view harvesting the big bucks is better for the population
If they're giving out doe tags then you can bet that harvesting does is plenty good for the population. There's a lot of money spent determining what tags to issue each year in each county. There's no way a blanket statement like the one you made can possibly be true in every locale.
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Old January 31, 2005, 12:48 PM   #25
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JohnKsa is right, there is many times where the doe to buck ratio is way to high, and outfitters ect... welcome doe's to be shot, this in tern makes the herd stronger, shooting out young bucks with bad genetics is often the way as well, don't want to mess up the good genetics right, this is proper Deer Management. Here in NH the southern areas have a extended doe season for that reason. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
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