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Old November 25, 2004, 04:32 PM   #26
Jeff Gonzales
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Your greatest weapon

U...

The technique you describe is less than optimum compared to other options available. If you are injured or only have on extremity then anything that limits your mobility is less than optimum to us. Your greatest weapon at that point is your ability to move. Being able to fix the gun on the move is secondary.

Can you perform the technique, absolutly. Just remember where you are and what is happening.

Later,
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Old November 25, 2004, 05:51 PM   #27
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Did I miss something here? If I knew in advance I only had one hand (like I really did) I would put a round in the chamber and #### the hammer with my thumb. Preferably a spur hammer for this, but a skeletonized one would do. Racking of course comes into play sometime. Why not place the gun between your knees and rack it with one hand?
it is difficult to rack the slide singled-handed, even between your knees. there is a point where if you're holding the grip but apply enough pressure racking the slide backwards, the pistol is going to rotate backwards. believe me, i've tried to hold enough things with my knees as i tried to work them one-handed (again, because i AM one handed). there are tricks to things.

and as already mentioned, holding the gun with your knees and trying tomove just isn't going to work.
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Old November 25, 2004, 09:10 PM   #28
Dennis Rogers
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ne handed slide rack

Seems I remember that the 1911 was redesigned so a person on horseback could rack the slide by simply pushing the front lower part of the slide on the saddle horn. This is only possable with the short guide rod as on the goverment model.
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Old November 28, 2004, 08:02 AM   #29
ulmer
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I haven't tried it but it appears, saying that there is no round in the chamber, that cocking the piece by hammer would much facilitate racking the slide between the knees
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Old November 28, 2004, 09:43 AM   #30
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Honestly, it does sound like an unsafe parlor trick to me. I can't imagine a way to one-hand rack that's not more dangerous than simply carrying condition one.
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Old November 28, 2004, 10:56 AM   #31
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How do you get to Condition 1

Go,

I agree with you, but that still doesn't address the issue of what to do, if you only have one arm. How do you get it to Condition 1?

The technique I described earlier will work, it is in my opinion the optimum choice given the circumstances.

Regarding the technique in the beginning of the thread, after reading just a few lines it seemed to be less optimum than above so I didn't bother to experiement with it.

Later,
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Old November 28, 2004, 12:19 PM   #32
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I think the idea would be to have it at condition one to begin with *shrug*.
If you don't normally carry cocked 'n' locked, I can see where you would find it a problem. I would say if you get caught in that situation it'd be preferable to evade the threat first (run like hell), because even if you find a way to get it cocked without violating 'the rules', you're still a sitting duck while you're doing it. In this case your first choice would almost certainly not be to get it into battery.
But for the sake of argument, let's say you can't. You absolutely must deal with the situation.
the ND rules still apply: point in a safe direction during the process, nothing in the trigger guard during the process.
In order to accomplish it, you'll need something...another limb, a rigid object, even the ground.
You'll have to go MacGyver at the moment, so practice prolly won't do much.
Using a table/branch/chair: Draw, set it down, pick it up by the slide thumb to the right, place the squeeze safety against the opposite edge of said object. Cock while loading the barrel down. set it down, pick it up.
Any other/quicker way would most likely get you shot
Just a guess, since I carry C1 to begin with. I imagine that you can always find a way to do it safely, but would sooner use it as a club than attempt that under fire.
My $0.02.
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Old November 28, 2004, 12:50 PM   #33
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I think the idea would be to have it at condition one to begin with *shrug*.
That is what I said and I think you are missing the point. For those folks who only have one extremity how do they get their weapon into condition one in the first place. We have had to work with these folks to develop a solid and safe system. The condition of their firearm is not the issue here, it is how to get into their preferred condition.
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Old November 28, 2004, 01:13 PM   #34
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OOOooohhh....
I'm such a dumbass sometimes!
Ya know what, I dunno and I should.
I have a friend who has no right hand, and I've never paid attention to how he does it.
I'll get back to you.
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Old November 28, 2004, 01:21 PM   #35
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I have been following this thread and its companion on The High Road with interest as I am currently typing this one handed due having a cast on my dominent arm. Indeed, prior to these threads being posted I have been experimenting with various one-handed gun manipulations (gun confirmed unloaded or with snap caps). I have the folllowing comments regarding these two threads.

1. To those few that say things like 'I've never injured my hand and see no reason to practice such stuff' -- Consider yourself lucky. At 53 I have had my hands/arms immobalized to some degree 7 times (3 times due to stupid mistakes 4 times to genetics). Regardless of the cause or whether the condition is preexisting or due to an attack, the time to learn how to operate a gun one handed is not during a gun fight. The best time to learn, if you can, is when both arms/hands work. You can practice one handed but still use your other hand if there is a problem (jams, clothing or a body part caught in the slide, etc.). Obviously this is even more critical once you have transitioned to live rounds. At this point you should have already worked out your skills with an empty gun or with snap caps and hopefully you have someone else there. Personally, I will seek professional training for this learning stage.

2. Practice with all the guns you might carry -- I realize the post on THR started as a 1911 thread but both threads have expanded to semi-autos in general. One method I've tried (barrel pointed left & ejection port down) is to grasp the slide with my left hand, place my thumb as close as possible to the back of the grip, brace the grip against my body and rack the slide. This works OK with my longer barreled Sig because my fingers are less likely to block the ejection port. With my shorter Sig this method readily induces jams and double feeds because it is difficult to keep my fingers away from the port. This would be even harder to do under stress. This operation is easier if the trigger is already back but this is another manipulation step. Obviously this would not work at all if the barrel is pointed right and the ejection port is up.

These drills are probably all the more difficult due to the guns involved. For me at least, Sigs are not real left-handed friendly and their recoil springs are notably stiffer than that of my Ruger. [I have not tried any of this yet with the Ruger as it is loaded.]

3. I have been experimenting with 4 major methods

(1) Hold grip & push slide front or front sight on object to rack slide - This requires fairly fine gun placement against an object to work.

(2) Grasp slide & use thumb preasure and body bracing to rack slide - This can work but puts you at most risk of jams & double feeds, grabing body parts with the slide, and covering the barrel with your hand.

(3) Place rear sight on heel and rack slide - Safest and best working method of these three but, as with the first two, cannot be done on the move.

(4) Catch rear sight or ejection port on clothing and rack slide - Allows movement and is compartively safe but assumes your wearing something the gun will snag on.

Nuff said.

GDB
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Old November 28, 2004, 01:21 PM   #36
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Thanks, I look forward to hearing back. It is a difficult task and I am interested in trying to make it easier or more effecient.

Later,
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Old November 28, 2004, 01:34 PM   #37
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GDB,

Thanks for the tips. Like you we have found that most of the methods are not very user friendly. Options #3 & #4 work the most reliably and tend to be universally applied on various defense weapons. While they do presume to have access to a fixed point, generally one may be found in the vicinty of the event, either on the body or lying around. Keep up the good work and speedy recovery
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Old November 28, 2004, 05:38 PM   #38
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One Hand Racking

Personally, this sounds like something you DON'T want to try at home, or anywhere for that matter. It sounds like a good way to shoot yourself. I've taken to carrying a revolver with my 1911. The revolver is the backup gun.
This sounds like a much safer alternative to me. My 2 cents, for what its
worth.
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Old November 28, 2004, 06:56 PM   #39
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K...

The revolver back-up is a great idea. The thread has sort of changed directions a bit and most folks agree that the original technique is a bit scary.

However, the thread has also attracted a lot of attention from folks who don't have the luxury of both extremities. So, the conversations has turned a bit towards helping them solve a problem in a safe and effecient manner.

I think that carrying a back up gun might be difficult for most of them, but hey you never know.

Later,
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Old November 29, 2004, 09:48 AM   #40
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Finally someone mentioned revolver. I have a semiauto for fun, but i bought a revolver for carry. although i have ways to work around my disability, it is much more effective and adventageous to carry revolver.

for those that are worried about how dangerous it is to do things in nonconventional ways (like working firearms singled handed), we have no choice but to think out of the box. otherwise we give up doing all the things we love and become shells of who we use to be. safety is an important part of figuring out how to work a semiauto. that's why things are practiced with snap caps and training before you go to live rounds, you do point the gunin safe directions and are aware of your surroundings. there is always a risk when working with firearms. look at the all the twohanded dummies that shoot themselves, their wife or their ceiling when they're cleaning their gun sitting on their couch - they didn't even do the basic gun safety and check to see if it was unloaded.
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Old November 29, 2004, 09:55 AM   #41
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WOW...great point

S.

I am curious what your reasons are, I know you say it is more effective advantegeous, but how?

If you don't mind sharing or if you would want to email me offline. I would be curious.

Like I said, the folks we work with have been more comfortable with the semi-autos so I would like to see another perspective.

Thanks,
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Old November 29, 2004, 02:30 PM   #42
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The answer is: Browning Hi-Power. It was the handgun closest at hand when I started reading this thread, so I grabbed it and it is a no-brainer. It's just like a 1911, except no guide rod, so only the barrel sticks out when you rack the slide. You hold it normally pointing straight down, put the front of the slide on the edge of the desk with the barrel hanging off the edge, and push it straight down.
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Old November 29, 2004, 06:11 PM   #43
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Okay, here's how my one handed buddy does it with his Beretta:
1)clear the chamber (can be done one handed by tucking the thumb under the flange and placing the fingers ahead of the rear sight).
2) Install an empty clip.
Rack the slide by snagging the rear sight on loose clothing. The empty cartridge will force the slide lock to engage.
3) drop the empty
4) install a hot clip
5) disengage the slide lock
6) decock.

He tells me that it's the fastest way to do it safely. And naturally, he carries with one in the hole
HTHs
-John
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Old November 29, 2004, 06:38 PM   #44
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Jeff, when I say a revolver is more adventageous, I meant for its ease of use right off the bat compared to a semi auto (at least in my case). they are basic; load, point and shoot. in a serious situation, there is less chance of a misfire than with a semiauto. although i will say, i wanted to stay with a semiauto regardless. not to mention i have more experience with a semiauto than with a revolver.

Now if course, you get into the pros and cons of each gun...for instance available shots: semis have 7,8 or 10 rounds, compared to the revolvers, which are typically 5,6 or 7. but revolvers are less apt to jam during round fire. i guess caliber-to-size of gun can be compared as well. really though, there are pros and cons for each gun. it just depends on the situation and preferences.

I think that right out of the box, a revolver is easiest to figure out and be prepped for. now reloading in a quick pinch, that is another thing yet to be figured out....just one of the ongoing things i have to think about and be ready for.

I mentioned a post or so up that i have a revolver for carry (.38 sp). It is small enough for me to conceal on me (5'3" 106 sopping wet), but it still has some bang for the buck. I also have a beretta 86 (.380) fulfilling the semiauto category right now. i want more semiautos to play with (larger calibers of course). but i also have to be fairly realistic if the stuff ever hit the fan, i don't want a problem sneaking up on me that we anticipated when i made my list of cons for carrying a semiauto. wouldn't that be a kick in the pants? i would like to be wholey confident carrying either gun and prepared when malfunctions and simple operations come up. and to do that takes gobs of practice.

ok, i hope this reply doesn't start the "which gun is better" post - not my intention, just ponying up my reasonings. maybe that will shed some light.

hmm, let me add, i just read the post above. my beretta is pretty easy to use. the tip up barrel allows me to put on in the chamber, then a full 8 stack in the mag. i'm ready to go in DA for the first shot. at the range, i go through all 9, and the slide stays open on the last shot. i drop the mag, put a new one in and hit the slide release, then fire off 8 shots in SA.

its pretty easy at the range. my biggest enemy is a feed jam. depending on the ammo, it will or it won't. for the rest of my time with that gun, i'm only using the ammo i have a perfect non-jam record with.
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Old November 29, 2004, 11:05 PM   #45
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short...

i have always said that a revolver was a better choice for a bug because it was more reliable than any auto. but it think that your primary should be an auto just because of capacity.
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Old November 30, 2004, 02:31 AM   #46
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Geez Folks

Everyone should know 2 ways to rack a slide single handed.

First step is always cock the hammer! This greatly reduces the effort.


1. Sight Snag - catch the rear sight on the edge of a hard surface with the muzzle pointed down and push the frame downward.

2. Alternate for Novak sights: Hold gun inverted, muzzle pointed down and at about your 4'oclock. Press top of slide very firmly against your thigh, hip or even buttocks and shove the frame down. Unless you have a slick finish on top of your auto or your pants are slick this should work.

3. Put the lower rear corner of the frame against a hard surface (ideally one with an edge - table, chair, tree branch) pointed up at about a 45 deg. angle. Grasp slide forward of eject port and pull rearward.

In a real bad situation, the ground works. Invert gun and press firmly down as you move the frame. Note that grass/turf is not good because it may clog the ejection port or other parts. If you've had one arm disabled in a fight, it's serious enough that you shouldn't worry about scratching up the gun or damaging the sights. Get it working!
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Old November 30, 2004, 10:18 AM   #47
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I can confirm that BillCA's option 2 works fine with my P-11. Just use friction from your pants. "Wipe" the slide real hard in a downward direction and it will rack. I was able to successfully chamber a round 10 times for 10 tries the other day. It left a bruise on my thigh, which tells you how hard I was working it. I figure if you need to do this, you're in panic mode, so might as well "wipe" hard enough to get the desired results.

This may not work for polyester pants, but nobody wears them anymore...
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Old November 30, 2004, 11:53 AM   #48
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Ah, and now I can't hold out any longer....

What is the sound of one hand racking?
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Old November 30, 2004, 12:28 PM   #49
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the sound? sounds like metal clicking.

i'm doing it right now with snap caps on my belt. maybe its different with a hand on the slide. what difference does the sound make, may i ask.
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Old November 30, 2004, 12:33 PM   #50
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it's a Zen joke (what is the sound of one hand clapping...)
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