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Old September 8, 2004, 06:56 AM   #1
possenti
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Aftermarket stocks for High Point carbine???

We all know how butt-ugly the High Point carbine is, right? It actually makes my eyes hurt to look at it. :barf:

I shot my friend's carbine the other day, and I have to say that it was a pretty fun shooter. Although the plastic furniture looks like some type of mutant, it wasn't too uncomfortable. He offered to let me shoot the pistol version, but I passed on that - I can't even touch that thing...

Does anyone know if anyone makes an aftermarket stock for the High Point Carbine? I've never heard of such a thing, but I think there's a market for something like this. The gun NEEDS something to make it more visually appealing. Polymer aftermarket stocks are available for all popular rifles: 10/22, SKS, AK's, Marlin rimfires, M1 carbines, etc. There's no doubt the HIgh Point is a big seller at a very low price.

Having custom-built a couple of stocks for my 10/22's, I'm SERIOUSLY considering taking on a similar project for the High Point. I'm thinking a skeletonized butt stock that's a "thumbhole" style which connects to the bottom of the pistol grip with a more comfortable angle. The forearm grip could be re-designed with some more flowing lines. The Berreta Storm comes to mind when I think of a visually pleasing 9mm carbine. Although I wouldn't dupilcate its features, I would be an inspiration.

One thing I don't yet know is: how difficult is it to remove the factory stock on a High Point? I didn't get to inspect it very closely at the range, but it seems to be two halves held together by screws. Also, if I do come up with a more ergonomic design, would any stock manufacturers (like the Choate company) be interested in my prototype? I've never sold a product idea to a company before, and I haven't the slightest idea on where to begin.

Would any of my ideas work, or am I just trying to "polish a ****"?
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Old September 8, 2004, 10:05 AM   #2
DPris
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Hi Possenti,
I'd say the chances of anybody producing an aftermarket stock for the Hi-Point carbine are exactly none.
It isn't a big seller, the design (as you noticed) that holds much of the gun together with nuts and bolts and requires a toolbox to disassemble works against the gun, and there wouldn't be enough of a market for Choate, or anybody else, to tool up for it.
The key you mentioned yourself is "popular rifles", and the Hi-Point isn't one.
It's designed to be cheap, period. Why would anybody buy one at that price level and then want to spend $50 or more on an aftermarket stock that would start to take it up to a higher price range that's already covered by far better designs?
Your bottom line pretty much says it.
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Old September 8, 2004, 10:49 AM   #3
possenti
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Good points on the cost factors, but I have to disagree with it being unpopular. I see these things everywhere I go.

Still, I just might have to buy one and build a stock just for myself .
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Old September 8, 2004, 11:30 AM   #4
444
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I also have to disagree on it's unpopularity. Around here at least. I don't know how they are selling at present, but a couple years ago, they were flying off the rack. In the year 1999, all the shops around here were selling them by the hundreds. I am talking about little shops that might sell a couple guns a week sold hundreds of Hi-Point carbines in preparation for TEOTHWAWKI Y2K.
I even have one. It was too cheap for me to pass up. I got the carbine, four mags, with the laser and a case of PMC ammo for $75. I couldn't turn it down for that price. After I got it, I found that I actually enjoyed it. I see nothing wrong with it at all. For some unknown reason I have ended up owning three carbines in 9mm. The Hi-Point, the Ruger PC9, and a Colt Lightweight Sporter. If for some reason I didn't own them all and decided that I needed to buy a 9mm carbine, the Hi-Point would be the one I would go with. The other ones really don't do anything the Hi-Point doesn't other than their higher capacity magazines. And, it doesn't hurt anything that the Hi-Point costs a tiny fraction of what the other ones cost. I have no problem at all with spending money on guns. I would hate to know how many 10s of thousands I have spent to this point. But at the same time, I don't see any reason to spend more than I have to, and the Hi-Point is a perfectly adequate 9mm carbine.

No, I don't know of anyone that makes an aftermarket stock for it. Personally, I agree that it looks like heck, but I don't really care. If I wanted beauty, I wouldn't buy a plastic gun to start with.
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Old September 8, 2004, 11:48 AM   #5
Dave85
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Apply a thin coat of clear lacquer, let it dry completely, and buff it to a high sheen. Repeat this, applying a total of five coats, and the end product should be quite attractive. I am, of course, talking about the ****. The Hi-Point is hopeless.
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Old September 8, 2004, 12:16 PM   #6
DPris
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Guys,
In 1999 lots of things were being bought by lots of people in panic who didn't know any better. Cheap 250-watt suitcase generators to run entire houses comes to mind. Yes, those ran, they produced electricity, but they weren't up to the job. Many were returned in the box the first week of 2000 for full refunds by people saying "I just wanted something in case, and I didn't need it afterall, so I want to return it." They bought in ignorance, didn't understand the requirements of getting enough generator to do the job, and either unloaded as soon as possible, or kept the generators "just in case", and are likely to be severely disappointed if "in case" ever happens and they try to get more performance out of something that just wasn't designed for it.
As a cheap plinker, if you want to spend your money on one, that's fine. If you want to risk your life on one, it's your life. I genuinely don't mean to insult anybody's intelligence here, it's just that there are far better defensive designs available, the Hi-Point is not worth sinking money into after buying one, it's too much hassle to break down & re-assemble for the type of regular maintenance any defensive carbine should get, longevity is questionable, and it does not compare with either the Colt or the Ruger carbines in ease of maintenance, design, quality of construction, or proven durability.
I understand the need to save a buck, and I do it myself. But, I wouldn't risk my life on one.
The original point was that there's not enough market for a custom stock.
Figure that even if the carbine were as popular as you believe it is, what would that popularity be based on, and what element of the shooting population would it be popular with?
It's greatest claim to fame is that it's cheap, period. So, it appeals mostly to shooters who either think they can't afford anything better, or who don't want to spend any more on a better gun. Among that group, although I grant there is at least one person who's interested, how many do you think there'd be who'd want to spend more money on something they bought because they didn't want to spend more money in the first place?
The numbers just aren't there.
Denis
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Old September 8, 2004, 06:40 PM   #7
444
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You make a good, logical post. However, I still think you are underestimating the Hi-Point Carbine.
Obviously this isn't something that would be chosen by a high speed, low drag team of operators. By the same token, I don't by any far stretch of the immagination think that every gun you buy has to have some defensive or "serious" application. I personally can't see any good reason to own a carbine in 9mm at all, for me. But, I suppose if someone only owned a few guns and one of them happened to be in 9mm, it might make sense to buy a carbine in the same caliber to take advantage of bulk ammunition purchases.
Obviously, I have no idea how much the carbines are actually fired in this area, but I do know that my local dealer told me that out of all those hundreds of carbines he sold, he only was aware of a problem with one of them. He called Hi-Point, they sent him the part over-night and walked him through the repair over the phone (he is not a gunsmith). The guy had his carbine back in operation in less than a week. Just to give you an idea of how many Hi-Points this guy sold: the owner of Hi-Point came to Las Vegas for some reason and drove out here to meet this local dealer and went out shooting with him.
It is very popular on these boards to make remarks critical of Hi-Point. I see this as rather thinly veiled elitism. We would like to believe that we welcome all shooters and gun owners to our boards, but in reality we are not taking "the high road" so to speak. There is a place for Hi-Point firearms. And IMO, if they get one more person into safe and responsible gun ownership or if they save one life, they are worth it. I don't have a lot of personal experience with Hi-Point, but I have heard a lot of first hand accounts and based on this, I consider them to be one of the best inexpensive firearms out there. They are not state of the art. They are not attractive looking. But they seem to function reasonably well and are safe. I know there are people who will tell you that they had a problem with one. All I can say is, that they obviously didn't take advantage of the lifetime warranty then.
Will I buy another Hi-Point firearm ? No.
Would I have bought the first one if it hadn't been such a deal ? No. (Actually it was part of a three rifle deal and I didn't even really consider if I wanted it or not).
But, that doesn't mean that I don't think the carbine is a functional, decent firearm.
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You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.
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Old September 8, 2004, 07:47 PM   #8
FF1090
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There can be no "aftermarket stock" for the Hi-Point Carbine for the same reason you don't see them for the Remington Nylon 66 rifles - the "stock" is also the "receiver". You'd need to buy it via FFL and NICS Check.

I took the plunge and bought the camo model, and find it an excellent value for the money. I'm looking forward to eventually getting the .45 ACP model, once they hit the market.
With the 4X scope I have on mine, one inch groups at 50 yards are normal.
My only gripe has been the funky right-side sling mounting, and the two after-market magazines I bought later have issues. Zero malfunctons with the original mag and gun.
I now have fitted it with a cheap Red Dot sight - but Hurricane Frances delayed my range testing.
This little carbine is light, handy, inexpensive, accurate and reliable. Ugly don't matter with all the other pluses going for it.
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Old September 8, 2004, 08:45 PM   #9
possenti
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!!!!

The stock has a serial number stamped/plated to it?

You've got to be kidding!

There goes my idea...
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Old September 8, 2004, 10:32 PM   #10
DPris
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T'aint elitism.
If you like 'em, buy 'em.
Just no market for an aftermarket stock.
Denis
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Old September 9, 2004, 11:19 PM   #11
Te Anau
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Unfortunately it is elitism.
Theres a gun shop in Hawaii that uses Hi-Point carbines for their "Japanese rental fleet" and they put countless thousands of rounds through them every year with an extremely small failure rate.Hi-Points arent as hard to maintain and disassemble as so many people claim once youve done it and IF you can read.
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Old September 10, 2004, 05:45 AM   #12
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Have to agree on their durability. Our local Sherrif's dept. has switched to them as a duty carbine, after a good bit of testing. No failures so far, none.
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Old September 10, 2004, 10:28 AM   #13
The Antibubba
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Sometimes, ugly is good

The Hi-Point is so ugly, it's appealing. Kind of like a pug. Or an AMC Gremlin. And it functions as it is supposed to, which in my book is where true beauty lies anyway.

Wish it were PRK legal.
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Old September 16, 2004, 03:24 PM   #14
Ignition
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Hi-point carbine

I have a hi-point 9mm carbine and although it looks like they screwed some plastic around a barrell. its pretty fun to shoot as well as pretty dependable. and i dont know of many other guns, let alone cheap costing guns, that offer a NO Questions Asked Lifetime Warranty.
its doesnt matter who owns the gun. you might be a 4th owner down the line. send it back to them and they will fix it for FREE.

i think the trade off of looks for a pretty decent weapon and warranty are good.

it would be nice to find out if there were ways to mount some bottom rails to the carbine but you cant ask for everything.

basically its the carbine you through on your ATV and if it falls off and its lost for a few months and then you find it. you dont have to worry about it.


-Another Hi-Point owner that is satisfied-
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Old September 16, 2004, 03:51 PM   #15
dfaugh
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I like mine, too

It's a blast to shoot, and no problams after many hundreds of rounds downrange. I have been contemplating a DIY wooden stock (yes, the plastic is a bit ugly but hey it was cheap and I didn't buy it for looks), but that's a pretty complicated task. But, they are very popular here as well, most guys sell out at every gun show. When I bought mine a couple years ago, the guy brought 24 and sold out on 4 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes out with some kinda accessory stock for 'em...'Course it might cost almost as much as the gun, but if it was "cool" (maybe a folding stock?) I'd consider buying one.
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Old September 16, 2004, 07:41 PM   #16
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That's a good point - with a nice stock they might actually inspire pride of ownership, given their utility/reliability. As it stands, they make my eyes hurt as well.
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