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Old July 22, 2004, 08:08 AM   #1
jekla
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how many spare magazines is enough??

regardless of the mags capacity be it a preban 16rdr of the new 10 rd mags how many is enough for a gun? lets say the gun is your main piece. basically its for ccw/defense. not to be used in any ipsc or other matches.
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Old July 22, 2004, 08:25 AM   #2
Jeff Gonzales
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I appreciate your curiosity, but

J,

I appreciate your curiosity and understand the importance of your questions and answers. However, I would strongly encourage you to consider attending a training course from a professional instructor/organization. These questions have far reaching implications and while this is a good place to start, it is just that.

In addition, consider researching some good books that can provide you with a comprehensive guide towards mastering the fundamentals. I think what you will find is that many of your questions can be answered from this and the above format.

The forums are a great place to get information and exchange ideas, but it is not a replacement for qualified instruction. Please continue to post your questions, but put some thought into the above suggestions.

Later,
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Old July 22, 2004, 08:35 AM   #3
KSFreeman
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Instruction? Training? Learning? Pffft.

One rail car is a good start. You should have multiple copies of your carry gun(s) as well.
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Old July 22, 2004, 11:02 AM   #4
Arc Angel
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Murphy’s Law of General Magazine Usage:

Single assailant @ close range = One magazine or less.

Multiple assailants @ close range = Two magazines or less.

Running gun battles, or barricaded assailants = Three magazines, possibly more.

If you want to be, generally, well-prepared for a gunfight: Carry two pistols, one primary and one secondary, and four extra magazines, two for each gun. And, oh yeah, remember to wear your vest!

Of course, Jeff is right, all of this means nothing if you can't shoot straight, handle your weapon clumsily, or worse, lack nerve! Of all the abilities I've practiced for many years to achieve, the one talent I cherish most is the ability to become very angry, very fast! Without this, everything else can turn into a pile of, 'slow motion crap' right before your eyes!
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Old July 24, 2004, 12:03 AM   #5
jekla
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hi jeff,

i am open to your suggestions jeff. if you could probably, recommend a good book which i could use id really appreciate it. my favorite book so far is one by Clair Rees "how to be an expert shot".

as for "formal" training with regards to home defense or personal defense no i havent had any. in my part of the world all we have are gun clubs that teach one the basics of handling a gun and shooting at paper targets and steel plates ala ipsc and the likes. ive been an "observer" on several occasions trying to decide if i would join but on all those trips to the range ive seen too many accidental discharges that its scary. all this happened with a range officer too. so its not very encouraging.

i guess youre asking, how can i be a safe shooter and a proficient one if i had no formal training? i can honestly say i am a safe shooter. ive been handling guns since i was 8yrs old. i started with airguns and got to shooting the real thing in my teens. up to now i havent had any accidental discharges of any gun i used. i know all the safe ways in handling a gun by heart and practice them too. am i proficient? i can hit what i aim for from time to time and am practicing to be even better. i try to learn everything i can from wherever i can. TFL has been a very good source of info for me. ive been a member before it shut down. and now its reopened i used another name coz i forgot my previous password.

i totally agree with what you say and with what erick said in my other thread. that is near impossible for me to get my training online. its just that i trust TFL to give me good pointers and i dont have any where else to turn to for "formal" training.

in closing, im really sorry if i caused you guys any troubles coz my posts were "too shallow". try to post subjects with more substance next time.

thanks!!
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Old July 24, 2004, 12:25 AM   #6
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Not too shallow. I think Jeff's concern is just that, like any other skill, you can't get a few on-line opinions from strangers (even well-trained trainer-type strangers) and really become proficient at armed self-defense.

For that you need to buy videos from Paladin Press.

Just kidding. There are many good book and video resources out there that can at least give you a grounding in what you should learn, but the best training is in person from a reputable instructor. Scarcity applies, I live fairly far away from the big name schools so travel costs are a factor. I have also not been fastidious in taking advantage of traveling seminars and all the local training available. But (aside from my military exposure) I have gotten the basics and do practice them regularly on my own and with like-minded friends.

At the very least, take advantage of the range facilities and opportunities you are aware of. If it is an issue of not knowing where to look for other options and privacy is a concern (as it should be), I would suggest PM-ing some of the mods on this forum with some more details of where you are located so they can maybe get you going in the right direction.

edited to add: a) I hope that's ok mods, and b) I usually carry 1 spare in case of a freak mag failure
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Old July 24, 2004, 12:30 AM   #7
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Wow...hold on

J...

This is just a short note for you as I am off to bed, but it was important enough for me to comment. This forum and other like it were intended to be sources of information and I am glad you trust the material you find here as I believe it to be sound. Do not be discouraged by what you find in your local area. You will have to put forth some effort to gain the knowledge you want. Keep the faith and good luck.

Later,
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Old July 24, 2004, 03:03 AM   #8
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I like to call the mags what they really are. The "full capacity" mags, also referred to as hi capacity, but IMHO, wrongly so, and "reduced" capacity after the stupid law. Sorry to ramble. Most of the time, I just carry my gun with the mag thats in it. Thats 17 rounds with my glock and 7 with my Kahr K9, although I will sometimes pack an extra for the little gun. Mainly, because my instuctor brought up a good point after doing what he called "two in each baddie" Well, I was feeling rather pleased with my speedy shooting. got two in the three targets and we considered then "stopped". then he said...now while waiting for the police to come to the scene, you better go ahead and reload just in case one of the downed 3 friends come over. His thinking was anytime there is a break in the situation, that you should use that as an opportunity to reload just in case. In the summer though, I usually do good to pack even the kahr. I also have a little 22 semi auto that I stick in my shorts pocket. I need to upgrade that I guess, but i keep buying rifles or SA rugers and not having anything left over for a kel-tec or lightweight s&w 38 which I really want. Maybe for Christmas, if i'm good. Back on track, practice your draw and shooting as much as you can, and learn to look for trouble and then get away from it. That way, you wont have to put all that practice to use, but it sure is fun.
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Old July 24, 2004, 05:19 AM   #9
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Get a copy of Robert Water's book "Guns save lives"


Study the different cases of citizen self defense in the book.

Learn from the examples, it will each you more than all the overpriced training courses taught by ex navy seals and retired government JBT's.
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Old July 24, 2004, 08:08 AM   #10
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jekla, let me try. The suggestion for formal training wasn't about being safe, but about context-based learning. You have asked a series of questions on the forum that have been quite vague and the query here is the same. Curiosity is great, but not only have your questions been vague, it would appear you haven't done much in the way of searching the forum for information even when the topics have been covered in some detail previously. So, not only are some on-line opinions likely to be insufficient, but without asking the right questons with the proper context, you aren't going to get the answers you need.
You are talking about your own personal protection, right? So why hamstring the forum members in answering your question by NOT providing relevant information?

You wrote...

"regardless of the mags capacity be it a preban 16rdr of the new 10 rd mags how many is enough for a gun? lets say the gun is your main piece. basically its for ccw/defense. not to be used in any ipsc or other matches."

First, you have not specified what type of gun or caliber you are talking about. So there is no real context about which an answer can be provided to you. I think you are talking about pistols, but there are some very small carbines and shotguns. Maybe you carry large or maybe you carry small. Maybe you carry a .22 and maybe you carry something in .50 AE.

Second, when it comes to defense issues, the capacities of the magazines is a salient point for many folks. A lot of folks feel that they can get by just fine with a single 15 (or more) round magazine that is double or even triple that of some single stacks. They choose high cap mags so that they don't have to carry spares. So, by writing off the mag capacity issue, you have killed another area of context that would be relevant to your query.
Third, you have provided not context for the carry of this gun. Is ths a general carry issue, work carry, carry around the house, and are you carrying in what you believe to be safe or unsafe circumstances? Are you a higher risk target because of the type of work you do or because you carry valuables. If I were a repo man or diamond merchant, I would likely be making some different decisions about carry from what I am doing now.

How many mags are enough? One, unless you need more and then one isn't enough. With no context, that is going to be about the best answer you are going to get that covers all the vague attributes of the query with a comparably inclusive vague answer.
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Old August 7, 2004, 11:03 AM   #11
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For every auto that I have owned I have had at least 3 magazines.Why? Most of your training classes and qualification courses are structured around having 3 magazines (regardless of capacity),plus it makes it easier to practice reload drills.More is better but not necessary.For everday carry I usually just have one spare on me; for duty carry the full three.
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Old August 7, 2004, 12:13 PM   #12
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Three magazines are the minimum I feel. For any pistol I really depend on I like to have at lrast five.
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Old August 7, 2004, 04:31 PM   #13
jekla
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well i guess id better start looking at getting a couple of extra mags coz right now i only have the 2 that came with the gun.
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Old August 7, 2004, 09:39 PM   #14
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Hmmm, my first impression of the question was more of a strategic angle, and less of a tactical one, since it wasn't phrased "how many should I carry". I think maybe this was what Hard Ball had in mind too, but he can chime in for himself.

For anything I consider a primary carry gun (example: Beretta 92F, SIG P220, Glock 22) I think 6 are the minimum to have on hand (own). This provides spares in case of accidental damage, rotation "through the line up" (loaded), etc.

For secondary, deep CCW-type handguns (Beretta Bobcat, PPKS, etc.) that tend not be abused that much, and represent an alternative to a reload for the primary, I feel comfortable with owning three.
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Old August 8, 2004, 06:28 PM   #15
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There is NO SUBSTITUTE for live instruction

However...I can recommend "Combative Fundamentals..an Unconventional Approach by some hack instructor whose name escapes me
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Old August 16, 2004, 02:14 AM   #16
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Here's the short answer.

This is really up to you people vary a lot on this. I like 5 mags for full size-main guns and 3 for backup-pocket. High cap or single stack this is the min I have for all my handguns.
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Old August 16, 2004, 09:51 AM   #17
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5 or 6 at least.
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Old August 16, 2004, 12:53 PM   #18
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I carry 3 mags one in the gun, two on the other hip. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have, If i had space for one more i would carry it.
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Old August 16, 2004, 02:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
regardless of the mags capacity be it a preban 16rdr of the new 10 rd mags how many is enough for a gun?
Depends on how many bullets you want to carry in magazines. If you want to carry 10 rounds, you don't need an extra magazine. If you want to carry 20, you'll need one extra magazine. As far as how many are "enough", you really don't NEED a gun at all to get by in life. The vast majority of people will never need a gun, let alone extra magazines, so from my point of view, you don't "need" a gun, and certainly not an extra magazine. It all comes down to what you WANT. And as wants go, here in America, the sky's almost the limit. If you think the inconvenience of carrying a gun and extra magazines is outweighed by the satisfaction you feel in carrying them, by all means, carry 12 extra magazines, and don't let anyone try to tell you that 11 are enough.

Quote:
I carry 3 mags one in the gun, two on the other hip. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have, If i had space for one more i would carry it.
That's why I carry one of these around in my briefcase......
http://www.lifeworkhealth.com/aed.htm

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Old August 16, 2004, 04:00 PM   #20
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Jekla...

I'm not sure of your question, so I'll answer both ways.

I like to own at least five (5) magazines for each model of pistol I have. I have several 1911 45 Autos; I don't have five for each one, but I have something like fifteen that will serve in any of the pistols I have. I have seven magazines for my H&K USP40. I only have three for my Ruger 22 pistol, but it's a target gun only and I'm pretty careful with the magazines.
I have a 1903 Colt Pocket Pistol in 32 ACP. Only one magazine for it, but I don't shoot it much.

For carrying, I always have two reloads for an open belt gun, and one reload for a concealed gun. To paraphrase John Wayne in "The Shootist", "If your gut tells you to carry more, carry more." The reloads applies to magazines, speedloaders or speed strips, depending.

I don't plan on being attacked by the Red Chinese Army where I live. Ten rounds should get me out of any problem I might encounter, as long as I can deliver them on target, on schedule.
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Old September 8, 2004, 05:02 PM   #21
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Old September 8, 2004, 09:15 PM   #22
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By far the "best bang for the buck" training I have had is an afternoon playing paintball.

There is nothing like that painful "SMACK" on the cheek or in your ear canal to bring home to you that if you had pulled that stupid move for real you would be DEAD!!!!!

Paintball has obvious limitations, but it inflicts pain, and pain cuts through the crap and teaches at the gut level.


The answer to your original question is that you should have two of your main pistols, and three mags each for each pistol, so you need a minimum of SIX mags of hi-caps when the Clinton crap collapses.
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Old September 9, 2004, 08:20 AM   #23
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I have mostly Colt 45s so a beer case full is enough of those. Also Colt AR15s. I have maybe 25 20 rounders and a dozen thirty rounders. The various other self loaders I have two or three apiece. That covers general shooting, range, etc.

To carry a pistol, what goes in the grip is all I want. I am not a police officer with a Sam Browne belt, pouches, etc. Actually, a small hammerless revo is my favorite self defense weapon. HTH
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Old September 9, 2004, 11:42 PM   #24
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You mean you can actually have enough?
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Old September 10, 2004, 07:14 AM   #25
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Some is good, more is better, and...

...too much is just about enough.

Personally, I think that 3 mags/gun is a bare minimum for a belt gun, and 2 mags/gun for a pocket gun. More is better. Fill a box. When it's full, fill another one.
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