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Old September 22, 2004, 07:29 PM   #26
Highland Ranger
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This is being resolved over on THR: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=wilson+combat
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Old September 23, 2004, 08:11 AM   #27
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OK I've followed this "problem" on two different forums and I'm kinda taken aback to see so many people automaticly side with the company...no matter what company it is...
I have had no dealings with Wilson and have really not read much feedback about their products (other than people stated that they have a CQB or something). I'm not making any judgements about whether this cemichal or that chemical was used...it was all kinda erelavent to me as soon as he said the finish came off revealing metal.
I've seen alot of folks on here and the other forum insulting the inteligince of posters by their grammer, or rambling posting style....since when did you need a freaking collage degree to be a gun nut???
I'm just an uneducated hick but I've been into the firearms world long enough to know that there should have been pakerizing under the finish...I assumed (silly me) that the majority of the folks replying to this did too...
Instead folks were more worried about whether the post was rambling, or what was spelled right....even that springfieldmaniac didn't act proffesional enough...HORSESH*T!!!
I for one don't like being called a liar...straight out or implied....I also don't like throwing my hard earned cash to some Lexus driving dipsh*t who forgot who put him in that Lexus to begin with..While I go crawl in my beat up Ford cause I'm spending my extra money to keep people like him wealthy!! (Boy, the things we do for our hobbies.. ) So, anyway, I can't say I would have handled it any better.

springfieldmaniac, thank you for giving me the heads up. I for one will add them to my list of companies that won't see my hard earned cash!!


springfieldmaniac came here cause he got "stiffed" by "the man"...he wanted to be around his freinds, he wanted to warn us...he may have even just wanted to b*tch a little bit, and for that he ends up getting called a liar from both sides??
C'mon guys, we're supposed to be in this together...help each other out, watch each others backs....forget about the spelling, forget about IQ's, and look at the facts when someone posts.
It's true he didn't list the name of the scrubber...but do you honestly know of a scrubber than can take of the coating, AND the Pakerizing underneath???
If you do please post it so I can steer clear of it as much as I'm gonna steer clear of Wilson....


P.S. This was purposly posted with very little punctuation....I used these-->.....cause I like to ramble...

Ohhh have I told ya'll lately how much I love this site???
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Old September 23, 2004, 09:58 AM   #28
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First of all, the customer is NOT always right. In many cases, the customer is flat out wrong. The notion that a customer is always right is NOT a policy that has ever been followed 100% by any company, no matter what the claims to the contrary. That sort of policy would bankrupt companies if it were actually followed. Why? Because the company's customers would be sent in by the opposition to wage a campaign of complaints about products, buying lots of products and then demanding refunds after abusing the products so that they could not be resold and then claiming the products were defective.

A customer who is combative and coverts the issue from one of the product problem to one of a person nature will never get the resolution s/he deserves to attaind. The customer may become emotional and combative due to poor customer relations of the company representative. This I fully understand, but it also happens in many cases because the customer is a jerk.

The notion of being called a liar is a good one. Heaven forbid that the customer ever bring in an item, claim it to be defective when it wasn't. I worked retail long enough to see folks bring in supposedly defective items that they had obviously abused or misused and then demand refunds. If the person representing the company does not believe the actions of the customer because the results can't be replicated or the story doesn't make sense, the claim will not be honored. This does NOT mean the company is calling the customer a liar. It means they don't believe the customer.

In the case here, we are all discussing aspects about a gun that is claimed to be defective, that the company claims was abused, and we are all making judgments without the benefit of even being able to see the gun because sprinfieldmaniac says he has no camera. Additionally, we only have the word of springfieldmanic on this event and how things unfolded. We don't actually know Wilson's side. So, it is definitely hard to say who is right or wrong in this case because we have no evidence to view, only one side of the argument.

And no, springfieldmaniac, I am not calling you a liar. I am just saying that you have presented all the evidence to us and none can be verified and since you have displayed a very emotional perspective on the situation and have a decided bias in the argument as you are one of the the actors, your perspective cannot be considered as complete or unbiased.

I don't particularly like Wilson Combat, but think they make great pistols. It is my opinion that their customer service has sucked for me in the past.
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Old September 24, 2004, 02:00 AM   #29
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Thank you "User Name" and "Double Naught Spy" for your posts.Yes,It is true I do not own a camera.Since this keeps being brought up,let me end the picture debate right now.The fact of the matter is, no picture will be able to convey the finish defect irrelevant of how high the quality of pics one can take.This can only reasonably be observed hands on.Now,if any formites live near the Dutchess/Ulster County area,and would like to see the gun before I fix it,feel free to e-mail me.Perhaps we could meet somewhere convient to me and you can view the firearm to see for yourself.I'll even supply the gun scrubber so you too can watch in amazement as the "armor-tuff" finish just washes off.
As stated in previous posts,I'm doing this as a fellow gun nut ,helping other forum gun nuts from falling prey to Wilson Combat's less than honorable business practices.My gun has been examined my a professional gun smith.The simple fact is the finish comes off with plain acetone and even just dry tissues.The gunsmith noted there was no parkerizing under the gun kote finish.
In regards to this being "one sided";I e-mailed the link to my original post 10 minutes after posting sending it to Wilson Combat's supervisor John M. I never did hear back from them in regards to my gun's finish or post.The last thing they did was send me my gun back and the rude e-mail I posted in my original post.They have had a long time to respond here,they chose not.I have a copy of a letter they sent to the BBB in Arkansas to rebut my bureau complaint.Wilson Combat's response read that it was "obvious" I had "intentionally" sanded and damaged my own gun.Intentionally damaging one's own property serves no legitimate purpose.That statement in itself is ludicrous,and gives Wilson Combat no credibility with any intelligent person.Please feel free though, to continue to patronize their business should you choose.As for me,the CC Company has credited the account,I'm going to very shortly have my gun repaired by a competent gunsmith.Thanks to all for following this thread,I really do not have anything more to add.
Best Regards,Ralph
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Old September 24, 2004, 08:38 AM   #30
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Well, yeah. He obviously just sanded the finish off part of his gun because:
  1. He was bored one day.
  2. He wanted to see how tough the finish was.
  3. He was curious to see if there were parkerizing under the finish.
  4. He wanted to paint it pink, so he needed to rough up the surface first.
  5. He was digging for gold.
  6. I dunno.


Pick one! Any one of them makes more sense than a company having a QC problem and refusing to fess up to it!

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Old September 24, 2004, 11:24 PM   #31
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"He wanted to paint it pink, so he needed to rough up the surface first."


LOL
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Old October 5, 2004, 03:29 PM   #32
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"He wanted to paint it pink, so he needed to rough up the surface first"

I've heard of the Pink Pistols before, - but, the Pink Shotguns????

All of the Wilson Pistols I have had the opportunity to inspect have been well built and very accurate shooters. That said, are they worth 1,500 to 2,000 more than other brands???

I can't justify that much for one, and I like spending money.
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Old November 2, 2004, 10:25 AM   #33
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Thanks for the heads up!

I have had other finishes come off when using gun scrubber. The black spray paint looking finish on my wifes S&W model 22 came off when I sprayed it with gun scrubber, I sent it back to S&W. They called me and asked what type of finish I wanted, I said I would like S.S and they said OK. I now have a Stainless steal Model 22-S auto that started out as a Model 22 with a black finish.

Thats the type of service I would have expected from Wilson combat.

Tony Z
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Old November 22, 2004, 11:44 PM   #34
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Thanks for the heads up - I'll avoid them. You got shafted, sounds like.
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Old December 6, 2004, 07:32 AM   #35
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I agree, the customer is NOT always right. I worked for a major automotive dealership in California for a couple years doing service and warrenty claims. The first thing I learned ( was taught) is John Q Public is a LIAR !!

Everyday I would have people lined up wanting someting FREE, I had cars that were run into curbs and wanted a free tire because it "just blew out'. Cars with No oil in the crank case wanted a new engine. People would protest " its a safety item so you have to fix it.... FREE" .

Well 4 balled tires is a safety item too and no your not getting a free rear view mirror on a 8 year old car because you hung 7 lbs of crap off it.

I see only one side of the Wilson story so I cant make a judgement call on this, I hope he gets is resolved. But what I have seen working with the public is if you give everything away they want you will go out of bussiness.
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Old December 7, 2004, 06:01 PM   #36
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Ive seen Wilson Combat shottys around, and always wanted one, but their cost was prohibitive. For 1 of them, I could get 2 marine mags (same shotty, just redone by wilson). Sounds as if Wilson forgot to parkerize it, and then the S--t hit the fan. Now, since all we can do is take his word (and i tend to believe him/why would he sand his gun that he just got coated), everyone just calm down. I appriciate the warning, not just about Wilson, but the coat that they applied, as in the future I might have concidered it (I dunno, I might have wanted it too). Ive had wierd customer service problems in the past (not with guns) that everyone else kinda scratched their heads at, and that I had become emotionally enraged at, because of their stupidity/thichkeadedness. Even had a cell phone company call my parents to complain that I had cussed at them (promised me a refund, signed a paper to the effect, then didnt send it to me till 6 weeks after it shoulda been there, i think they didnt have the $, but didnt want to tell me that). While becoming emotionaly upset is not the best idea, we all have done it, and being human, we will continue to. I am happy that the CC company credited the $ and that he is getting his shotty refinished as it should be (always hated firearm casualties due to incompetence, by owner or manufacturer). Best of luck, and happy shootin.
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Old December 10, 2004, 11:33 AM   #37
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NovaSS,You only have oneside of the story here,because Wilson Combat has no interest in what anyone thinks.The day this was posted originally,I e-mailed it to the supervisor that was of no help to me.Other's have e-mailed them about this post and what they have done.If you were being wrongfully accused of something,wouldn't you come here to defend yourself??
I welcome them to come here, but if it is for anything but the long overdue apology,I will have someone scan the document on a disc I have from a credible Gunsmith and post his findings on here that details the defect.AS far as JoeQ liar,while I've been in retail myself,if you can't tell the difference between fact and fiction,then you need not be in a position to make warranty decisions.
How convient, anytime a warranty issue comes up it is never the companies fault because the public is probably lying to get something "free".A company will go out of business just as well for lying to the "public" and not backing up their words in the warranty.I have no reason to make my case anymore,the money has been credited back and my gun has been repaired by a company Wilson Combat can't even be qualified to hold their jockstrap.Somtimes oneside of the story and the absence of the other speaks for itself.


abelew said ("and i tend to believe him/why would he sand his gun that he just got coated")

Thank you for your post abelew.
See everybody? Sometimes a warranty issue is just a little common sense! Now maybe, if Wilson Combat starts exhibiting some, they won't totally destroy their business by believing "JoeQ" is always lying.
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Old December 15, 2004, 10:02 PM   #38
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My $.02

I have use the product they call "Armor-tuff". It is made by KG industries. You can go to www.kgcoatings.com and check it out. I can tell you it all depends on the prep work, and the finishing. After the spray on application it has to be baked. 300-350 for 60 minutes. Now, if by some reason they skipped the last step (Baking) it would come right off with solvent, or any other number of cleaners. I would be willing to bet that it did not get baked. I have applied this finish to a barrel that had the tritium sight already on it, with our any damage. Worst case the insert might loosen up, but the vial would stay intact. I could just be resecured with epoxy.

Now......for my $.02 about Wilson Combat. They make excellent barrels. I think they are over priced on there service, and on the guns they sell. You are just paying for the name. If you will look at a Scattergun Shotgun, they use an "Express" receiver. I am a full time LE firearms instructor/Armorer. The Remington people will tell you do not use "Express" shotguns in Law Enforcement. They will not hold up to the higher pressure loads, and punishment. As an agency we do not pay much more for the "Police Magnums" than what a regular "Express" Cost. So I can put to rest all who will say that Remington just wants to sell a more expensive gun. That is not the case.
W.C. is in the money making business, and the express is the cheapest in both price and quality. You can take a monkey and put a dress on it, but it is still a monkey.
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Old December 17, 2004, 02:36 AM   #39
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Actually,the express receiver is the same as the Police receiver,just without the extra finishing/smoothing of the internals.They pull the parts from the same parts bin.
As far as not baking the finish,that might be a possibility.It came of real easy.
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Old December 19, 2004, 12:06 PM   #40
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Yup I know that is what they will tell the general public. But I know several of the folks at Remington, personally, and there is a difference. Good Luck
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Old December 19, 2004, 03:16 PM   #41
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Just an FYI, I found this particular point amusing... When I read the customer service policy at WC's webpage, I found this little disclaimer;

NO WRITTEN WARRANTY: Due to the complexities of complying with the Federal warranty law, Wilson┬╣s Gun Shop, Inc. does not offer a written warranty. We continue to stand behind our products and services, and to care for our customers, but we cannot make guarantees or warranties of any kind. This general statement of policies and disclaimers is effective July 1, 1985, and no prior statements or promises shall be of any effect for transaction after July 1, 1985.

Now I won't come down on one side or the other, but don't you find that interesting? They are not liable, at all, thanks to that. (Although a good lawyer could probably cut that apart.)
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Old May 20, 2005, 12:39 PM   #42
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Same as Ruger and many other gun companies.

Not suspicious at all.
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:03 PM   #43
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Maniac, speaking as a small businessman, after reading your account of events carefully, if you ever require my services, I'd like to cordially invite you to give me a call, collect, so I can provide you with the phone numbers of my competitors.

Have a nice day!
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:59 PM   #44
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Quote:After reading they're catalog I felt confident in sending my gun away after some really bad experiences with other "gunsmiths" ruining my other firearms.

Springfieldmaniac,
Tell us some more about your other "really bad experiences with other gunsmiths ruining your other firearms". How many gunsmiths have you had problems with? How many gunsmiths have you had good results with?

Good shooting and be safe.
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Old June 16, 2005, 10:30 PM   #45
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"Maniac, speaking as a small businessman, after reading your account of events carefully, if you ever require my services, I'd like to cordially invite you to give me a call, collect, so I can provide you with the phone numbers of my competitors.

Have a nice day!"

What do you mean? Are you suggesting I did something wrong? Are you saying Wilson Combat treated me fairly? If so I would not do busniess with you,so you won't have to be concerned about that issue,nor giving me anybodies phone number.Apparantly,it is okay to charge high prices then not follow through on the quality of the work.I guess I should satisfied with an uncured gun-kote finish?
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Old June 16, 2005, 10:43 PM   #46
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*******************

Last edited by springfieldmaniac; June 16, 2005 at 11:17 PM.
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Old June 17, 2005, 01:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Yup I know that is what they will tell the general public. But I know several of the folks at Remington, personally, and there is a difference.
So Remington tells you they have separate billets for Express and Police receivers?

Don't buy it. I own both. One is ugly and grit blasted with the most God-awful volcano slag on the face of the Earth, the other nice and polished. However if Remington is to be believed, the receivers all come from forged billets. The Police receiver is ground down and polished, has a serrated flat, hence less metal. The Express ends up being the beefier of the two.

Unless Remington lies about its overall product line, and even a jaded old cynic like me can't believe that...
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Old June 17, 2005, 09:23 AM   #48
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Old Thread Alert
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Old June 17, 2005, 10:58 AM   #49
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Yup, old thread, angry guy, self-sealing, dead issue.
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Old June 17, 2005, 08:25 PM   #50
springfieldmaniac
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Ya,nobody ressurrect it anymore by typing inflammatory b.s. backing a scumbag company that get's off on screwing it's customers.Read the thread,think what you want,I will never post to this thread again.
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