The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 29, 2015, 02:11 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
What would you put down a .50cal 1:24 twist barrel?

Thinking purely in terms of conicals/minies/maxiballs/REALs/roundballs etc (no sabots), what would you put down the muzzle of a 1:24 twist, 28" .50 percussion gun?

Purpose?
Misc. Let's say plinking/hunting etc, the usual general purpose type load.

I mean weights or styles that might match that faster twist.

Thx
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.

Last edited by Pond, James Pond; July 30, 2015 at 02:51 AM. Reason: clarifying which projectiles are readily available to me
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 29, 2015, 09:59 PM   #2
FrontierGander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 467
For hunting, a 250 or 300gr Thor.

Plinking, a 260-300gr harvester scorpion PT Gold.
__________________
Frontier Muzzleloading
FrontierGander is offline  
Old July 29, 2015, 10:22 PM   #3
rodwhaincamo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 743
There's a fellow who hunts elk with a Lee .500 440 grn pistol bullet that he paper patches through his Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a 1:32" twist. He is very good with his load shooting several hundred yards.
rodwhaincamo is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 02:50 AM   #4
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
Should have specificied: no sabots nor powerbelts.

As yet I have found noone who sells those around here, but roundball are plenty and so are basic full-bore conicals such as those I listed in the OP
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 08:13 AM   #5
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 17,898
Conical bullet, perhaps even paper patched.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 09:27 AM   #6
rodwhaincamo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 743
I'm hesitant to use any undersized conicals in my rifle as they can easily move off of the charge and create problems. I knew the Lee REAL was oversized and bought a handful to try out and found my 1:48" twist Lyman did exceptionally well with them so I bought a mold.

Were you not considering it as a hunting projectile the undersized conicals wouldn't be such a big deal.

If you are seriously considering a certain rifle I'd then look to see if you could purchase various projectiles to test out.

I like casting as I'm not at anyone's mercy. And 20-something projectiles for $1 is pretty nice too! Of course I spent $100+ to be able to do it, but in the long run it doesn't take long at all to come out ahead.

I'm guessing you'd need your projectiles shipped, which would be costly. I'd certainly look into casting.
rodwhaincamo is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 09:59 AM   #7
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
Even if I can't find a place to shoot a BP gun, I wouldn't want to buy a gun that realistically I couldn't find viable projectiles for: you never know. The law might change, loosening the restrictions on BP so I'd like to at least know that I can get some viable projectiles from the local market.

If nothing else, this all helps me learn more about the whole BP realm...

I am thinking of casting anyway: it would be nice to finally see what a 240gr SWC can do in a .44Mag.
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 11:22 AM   #8
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 12,089
That is a bullet twist, a heavy bullet twist.
It might work with a light load and patched ball, but I would not bet on it.
Are you looking at the Pedersoli .50 Hawken? They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.

Look at the .45 Hawken with 47 twist compromise barrel, ok with ball or moderate bullets.

I think the Mortimer Target would suit, .54 ball, but it only comes in flint.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 11:58 AM   #9
rodwhaincamo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 743
If you cast you'd always have viable bullets...

You could try Hornady Great Plains bullets. Most of the muzzleloader conicals are cast only unless you included the various newer types.
rodwhaincamo is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 11:59 AM   #10
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
Quote:
Are you looking at the Pedersoli .50 Hawken? They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.
Could you post a link?
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 01:46 PM   #11
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 12,089
Here is the Pedersoli Hawken line.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipo...es-hawken.html

I just noticed the Rocky Mountain model is a .54 with 65 twist, a good round ball gun.

The .45 x 47 is a compromise ball/bullet gun
The .50 x 24 is a bullet gun
The .54 x 65 is a round ball gun (same barrel as the Mortimer Target.)

A .54 is a nominal half ounce ball gun, 218 grains, 14 grams.
That is a pretty big ball, considered adequate for big game and military use in the mid 19th century, but it does not use up the lead as fast as that .50.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 02:15 PM   #12
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
I don't know where you got this from, though:

Quote:
They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.
I've seen the linked page and when I click on the link to the recommended bullet, I just get a .490 roundball!

So if I got a nice 370gr Maxiball conical, is that the sort of long bullet you'd have in mind?
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 02:24 PM   #13
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 12,089
It shows me this picture and table with the .50 bullet at 450 grains.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...leloading.html

I am sure it is a potent hunting bullet but it is NOT authentic to the period of the rifle.

I am not an active muzzleloader and I can't be SURE that a round ball would not shoot well out of that rifle, but it would be a nonstandard combination.
Maybe somebody here has tried it.
There was the gunzine writer who tried and tried to get a Whitworth repro to shoot round balls (.451 cal 21 twist) but I don't think it ever equaled the bullet.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 04:19 PM   #14
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 4,135
Can you get "Lee R.E.A.L." (Rifling Engaged At Loading) 320 Grain bullets there?
They should be fine.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM   #15
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
There are some stocked, yes.

My only concern now is that perhaps 1:24 is too serious a twist rate. Too restrictive.

In a sense it is a bit academic if I never get to shoot the rifle, but as I said earlier: things may change and it is nice to keep options open.

Perhaps 1:48 is a better choice.
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old August 1, 2015, 02:57 PM   #16
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 2,389
Tight twister: Something heavy no doubt. A Lee REAL of some sort. 3-400 gr. maybe. Perhaps this one seen below:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...01/2/LEE-90471

or this one perhaps seen below:

Lyman 508668 a 410 gr. chunk of cast lead. A real thump-er/ bumper if you could find one that is. Seen here:

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm
__________________
"Do not follow where the path leads, rather go where there is no path and leave a trail."
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old August 1, 2015, 03:09 PM   #17
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 4,228
Thanks for the links. Those things are monsters!
How far do you usually have to walk before you find your shoulder after finding one of those?

All this serious bullet business does tell me that perhaps 1:24 is a bit too single-minded. As I said earlier, I think 1:48 would afford me some flexibility.

Ironic that I should be so concerned considering it'll probably be a wall-hanger!! Still, I've never bought on looks alone: for me usability has to be in the mix no matter how academic!
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Any idea that relies on murder for its survival in intrinsically weak.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old August 2, 2015, 01:40 PM   #18
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 2,389
Quote:
How far do you usually have to walk before you find your shoulder after finding one of those?
I don't. I shoot patched ball most of the time. When I first got into B/P rifles. I bought my rifles from Fox Ridge Outfitters long before their closing. Who also sold t/c drop-in-barrels as a store accessory item. So my rifles came to me factory stock with 1-48s twists. I simply changed my barrels out with 1-66 t/c factory Rd/ball only barrels. Quite accurate the t/c ball barrels turned out to be.

The 1-48 barrels I changed out (45-54 Hawken models) sit upright in a closet with plugged nipple snail's and (wine bottle) corked at their muzzle's. (Their bores were filled with straight 5-w motor oil.)
Not to brag but when someone like me with old frosted over eyes can shoot t/c open barrels sites and group my p/ball into 2-2-1/2" at a 100 yards all day long from both rifles. (I) see no reason to mess around in my wanting to shoot conical or sabot something heavier. BTW: Both rifles are fueled with homemade black or (Gorex 2-FFg when in a dire pinch.)

As commented earlier. 1-48 will shoot anything (other than a musket hollow base conical) reasonably accurate. Just don't expect to see >exceptional accurate is all I'm saying.
__________________
"Do not follow where the path leads, rather go where there is no path and leave a trail."
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2015 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10317 seconds with 9 queries