The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 18, 2009, 08:38 PM   #1
jwalker497
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2008
Posts: 266
Silencer or Sound Supressor

I have a few questions

1. What is the difference between silencers and supperssors?
2. What is the process to own one in PA
3. I heard of a trust established to own one, can someone explain this process?
4. Does anyone have any pics they could share, especially on a SIg?
5. How long is the process and what may be the expenses in PA?
6. Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation?

THANKS!!

Last edited by jwalker497; March 18, 2009 at 08:53 PM.
jwalker497 is offline  
Old March 18, 2009, 08:40 PM   #2
ar15chase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2009
Location: Shallowater, Texas
Posts: 444
Not to be intrusive or rude , but why would you want one?
ar15chase is offline  
Old March 18, 2009, 10:28 PM   #3
freakshow10mm
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 1,398
The legal term in the NFA 1934 is silencer or muffler. Hiram Maxim used this term as marketing.

The silencer or suppressor or muffler or moderator, whatever you want to call it, reduces or suppresses the muzzle blast and report. The term suppressor, which is a more correct illustration of what a silencer does, has been in use since the 1970's.

Some use silencer, some use suppressor, some use both at any given moment. Slang for a suppressor/silencer is can.

I use the term suppressor, as I think it's more accurate and doesn't convey the Hollywood evilness the word silencer does. My website lists them as suppressors, but on the ATF forms I list according to the law term, which is silencer.
freakshow10mm is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 12:56 AM   #4
David Hineline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 1999
Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska
Posts: 703
I have a few questions

1. What is the difference between silencers and supperssors? No difference

2. What is the process to own one in PA best way is to contact your local dealer

3. I heard of a trust established to own one, can someone explain this process? One of the requirements is that your local police approve your application for this items, in areas where the police do not approve then either by using a legal trust or a corporation this avoids the police approval requirement.

4. Does anyone have any pics they could share, especially on a SIg? google the Sig forum, plenty of pics on line.

5. How long is the process and what may be the expenses in PA? Around 3 months, cost of a threaded barrel, cost of the silencer, cost of your dealer's fees, and one time $200 tax to register it with the ATF since Sigs are kinda spendy expect a couple thousand for the entire process.

6. Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation? Not if you don't commit crimes with it. There are plenty of Ninnys who say using an NFA weapon in legal defense situation causes one problems with the courts, but they never site any actual instances where this has happend.

THANKS!! Here are some PA dealers for you to shop with.

Armament Services International Inc.

Attn: Vahan Kelerchian
Specialties: Class 2, Type 10 & 08 (Non- NFA Importer)
103 Camars Drive
Warminster, PA 18974
Phone: (215) 293-0200
FAX: (215) 942-4136
E-mail: infoREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@autoweapons.com
http://www.autoweapons.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Barnes
Specialties: Class 3
1317 Hamilton Street Suite B1
Allentown, PA 18102
Phone: (610) 261-5127
E-mail: mp5sdREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@enter.net
Homepage: N/A



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Carmichael - Firearm Supply
Specialties: Class 2
304 Murrysville Rd.
Trafford, PA 15085
Phone: (412) 372-2191 from 6-9 PM EST Evenings.
E-mail: rayc20mmREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@comcast.net
Homepage: N/A



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keystone Arms - Joe Manazza Jr.
Specialties: Class 3 - Specializing in military gun parts
PO Box 599
Millrift, PA 18340
Phone: (570) 491-4867
E-mail: keystonejoeREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@pikeonline.net
http://www.keystonearms.com/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F. Charles Logan - Arms and Ordnance
Specialties: Class 3
Box 441
Warrendale, PA 15086
Phone: (724) 776-9271
FAX: (724) 776-0355
E-mail: FCLoganREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@Arms-Ordnance.net
http://www.arms-ordnance.net/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS Arms - Paul Sadowski
Specialties: Class 3
PO Box 798
Easton, PA 18044-0798
FAX: (801) 881-5460
Homepage: N/A


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Dennis A. Todd
Specialties: Type 10
239 Baltimore Pike
Springfield, PA 19064
Phone: (610) 543-7300
FAX: (610) 543-7909
E-mail: DToddmgREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@AOL.com
David Hineline is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 07:50 AM   #5
RAnb
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 447
ar15chaser,

He probably wants a silencer for his gun for the same reason people use mufflers on cars. I think people appear rude anytime they ask why someone wants to own a firearm.

Ranb
RAnb is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 09:20 AM   #6
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Not to be intrusive or rude , but why would you want one?
Same reason I've got an SBR AR15. Because they're cool and he's allowed to. I'm trying to figure out which firearm I want to suppress right now....
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 09:28 AM   #7
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,321
ar15chase
Quote:
I want to be intrusive or rude , justify your desire to legally obtain gun mounted hearing protection!
There, I fixed it for ya!


jwalker497
Quote:
Are there any liabilities or issues for owning one especially in a home defense situation?
Yes. I have been legally advised to never use a suppressor (or any NFA item) in a self defense situation. It would be an argument of intent against you. If you put a suppressor on your SD gun you "clearly" intended to shoot the first person to come into your home. It gets into the American people's concept of silencers as assassins tools. The prosecuting attorney would paint you as an unstable sociopath who kept an assassin's weapon on hand just waiting for a chance to take someone's life.
Willie Lowman is online now  
Old March 19, 2009, 11:55 AM   #8
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
I don't understand how one could be painted as a "sociopath" if they were to use an NFA item for SD.

Supposed I stopped an intruder with my SBR. How would it be any different if I used an AR15 with 4.5" more barrel to do the same thing? Same with an SBS, why would a little more barrel keep me in the clear?
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 12:23 PM   #9
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,321
Perhaps "sociopath" was not the best word to use.

As I said earlier, I have been legally advised not to use NFA firearms for home defense. In court my SBS would become a "sawed off shotgun." A suppressor would be a great display of "intent" to do harm. Using such a weapon in your home would be providing a figurative weapon to the other side's lawyer. If you are in court for shooting someone that was in your home, attacked you in the street, kicking your dog, drinking your koolaid etc... You will want 12 of your peers to think that shooting said individual was the last thing you wanted to do. If there is a "silencer" on your "sawed off assault rifle" it will be very easy for the prosecution to get the jury to think you were out looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

Don't believe me? Call your attorney and ask them what they think.
Willie Lowman is online now  
Old March 19, 2009, 01:07 PM   #10
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
"Sawed off assault rifle."


Mines a factory AR15. Just happens to have a little less barrel than most peoples does.

Anyways, if they guy is in my house with ill intent, I should run to my safe and grab something a little more "practical" before he kills one of my family members?

I can see the suppressor argument, but all NFA items? Oh well, it doesn't matter since I wouldn't use the SBR anyhow. The 870 Express Super Magnum fits the bill for me.
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted

Last edited by Wiskey_33; March 19, 2009 at 01:30 PM.
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 07:33 PM   #11
jwalker497
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2008
Posts: 266
So the suppressor might not be a useful SD tool?
jwalker497 is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 07:39 PM   #12
MrNiceGuy
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2008
Posts: 919
sure, it "might" be useful

but the law may frown upon it after the fact


i'd love to have suppressors on all of my weapons.
The ability to shoot without muffs and plugs and not bother people for miles around... there is no downside for me, besides the cost associated with it.
MrNiceGuy is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 08:29 PM   #13
TheManHimself
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2008
Posts: 731
Of course, if you're in a state that cares more about it's good citizens than its criminals (i.e. has castle law), as long as the shooting is legit there's no court case to worry about.

And if you don't, I'm not seeing where the hassles of obtaining an NFA Item wouldn't be just as good "Character witness" to your defense. After all, why would a person with malicious intent be willing to essentially sign his privacy over to federal law enforcement (BATFE)?
TheManHimself is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 06:08 AM   #14
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
After all, why would a person with malicious intent be willing to essentially sign his privacy over to federal law enforcement (BATFE)?
How does owning an NFA item "sign my privacy" away whatsoever?
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 11:37 AM   #15
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
How does owning an NFA item "sign my privacy" away whatsoever?
Just for background check. Contrary to popular myth, owning NFA items does not allow ATF to come visit you whenever they want.
Chipperman is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 12:08 PM   #16
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Just for background check.
No more intrusive than the NICS background check.

I've got an NFA item and don't recall an agent ever showing up at my house.
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 12:51 PM   #17
armsmaster270
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,924
If I remember right on another forum there was a dealer returning to his shop or home with one of his weapons and was attacked and all he had was his NFA weapon to defend himself and he had to pay some pretty hefty legal fees he wouldn't have had to pay if he had his carry gun.
__________________
http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
armsmaster270 is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 05:11 PM   #18
aroundlsu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 156
This is the setup I keep next to my bed at night and actually carried around town (discreetly) during the 3 weeks my city was out of power after Hurricane Gustav:

Find yourself in one of the highest crime areas of your city for three weeks with absolutely no power anywhere and see if you are still worried about lawyers or prosecutors.

From a non-defensive perspective, I was lucky to have an open Chinese Buffet within walking distance so food wasn't a problem but if I was starving I could have used my Ceiner .22 kit with the AR-15/Silencer combo and quietly shot all the squirrels I could eat.

The legal arguments are as old as the silencers themselves. Bottom line is, I can't think of any better tools to defend my home with and that's all that matters to me.
aroundlsu is offline  
Old March 20, 2009, 06:52 PM   #19
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
No more intrusive than the NICS background check.
I don't recall having to send fingerprints or pictures the last time I bought a Title I weapon.
Chipperman is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 09:33 AM   #20
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
I don't recall having to send fingerprints or pictures the last time I bought a Title I weapon.
And I don't recall doing it for my class 3 weapon.
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 01:01 PM   #21
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,429
So how did you get a personally owned NFA weapon without prints or pictures?
Chipperman is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 01:39 PM   #22
freakshow10mm
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 1,398
corporation or trust. The corp or trust owns it, you can possess it as a member of the corp or trustee of the trust.
freakshow10mm is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 02:54 PM   #23
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
corporation or trust. The corp or trust owns it, you can possess it as a member of the corp or trustee of the trust.
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 03:56 PM   #24
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,429
Then it's not a personally owned weapon.
Chipperman is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 05:03 PM   #25
Wiskey_33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 1,084
Quote:
Then it's not a personally owned weapon.
I was just stating that the NFA background check was no more intrusive, in my case, than a regular NICS check.
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted
Wiskey_33 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13192 seconds with 9 queries