Best bullet grain for .45?

Drjones · December 20, 2002, 05:33 PM

What is the best bullet weight for defense and why?

My bullets of choice are Speer Gold Dots, and I got 230gr.

Would lighter be better?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of light vs. heavy?

Thank you
Drjones

Dr.Rob · December 20, 2002, 06:11 PM

Most 45's were "designed' to shoot the 230 gr ammo, and I think the best 230 gr load out there is the hydra-shock. Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, Fail-Safes are all good too.

However, I mixed up a wicked hot (not +p but close, load) mix of 200 gr Hornady flat nose fmj and 9 grain of AA#5. I've never seen a commercial load that comes close to that one.

Most of the 185 gr stuff on the market shoots significantly higher from point of aim on my fixed sight handguns.

blades67 · December 20, 2002, 06:21 PM

Many feel that the standard 230 grain loads are fine with a full size gun but that some of the lighter weight bullets are better when carrying a short barrel gun due to the resulting velocity losses.

motorep · December 20, 2002, 06:37 PM

I think that you'll find most people using the 230s. I prefer the lighter 185/200s, they're flatter shooting than the 230s. I sight in at 25 yards and they're flat to there.

Frohickey · December 20, 2002, 07:07 PM

Depends on the barrel length of the gun.

Speer Gold Dots, 230grain +P are good for shorter barrel 45s, in that you need the extra power to push them faster out of a shorter barrel. A certain range of velocity is needed in order to open up the bullet.

If you go too fast, the bullet opens up too soon, and you lose penetration.

juliet charley · December 20, 2002, 07:13 PM

Quote:

A certain range of velocity is needed in order to open up the bullet.

That is why a lighter bullet is contraindicated in a shorter barrel weapon. While they may have a greater velocity than a heavier bullet, they lose more velocity proportionally and have a greater chance of dropping below the needed velocity range to provide adequate expansion.

**Mike Irwin** · December 20, 2002, 08:43 PM

"That is why a lighter bullet is contraindicated in a shorter barrel weapon."

Question is, at what range does that happen?

Or, the bigger question is, does that really matter for the purposes for which most of us carry handguns -- short range personal protection?

If you're going to be expecting to be shooting at longer ranges, which is quite frankly somewhat hard to justify with a civilian CCW-type gun, my way of thinking is that you should already be carrying a longer-barreled weapon.

Just food for thought...

MrAcheson · December 20, 2002, 08:50 PM

At one point in time the 230gr JHPs had trouble with expansion. The big and slow bullet theory doesn't work real well for hollowpoints that need speed to expand especially since the bigger the HP the more force/speed it takes to expand it. I think the current HP designs have alleviated this problem though.

DrDremel · December 20, 2002, 08:52 PM

I would say that the 230 grain bullet is the .45 round. Anything else is a modification. I would not worry about barrel length. The 230 will do just fine at any speed a pistol can throw it.

Paul Fitz Jones · December 21, 2002, 02:29 AM

As the top salesman of California Saeco bulletcasting company til the death of the founder and sale of the company to back east, in the thousand of 45acp bullet molds I sold the 180 grain swc lead was for highly accurized weapons, the standard bullseye target bullet was the 185 gr #130 for many decades, The H&G 200 grain is very popular for combat shooters and in the 50 yard bullseye range and the 230 grain RN sold the least. The top seller today is the Saeco 068 200 gr SWC

Ca-Saeco made the most accurate 4 cavity with handles Competition Winning molds and I have some of each weight in my personal collection that I am selling for low prices. Send for a list of my remaining mold collection coffeyn1@juno.com

The attachment is what a mold looks like as an example

New_comer · December 21, 2002, 03:47 AM

The 45ACP should always be big and slow. At 230 gr and 850 fps.

Else it's magic will begin to fade.

Then the 9mm will no longer have a worthy pretender to its throne...

Oleg Volk · December 21, 2002, 07:47 AM

Depends on the gun. Runt's USP45c is much more accurate with 185gr than with 230gr. My late G21 wouldn't function with any 185gr!

Tamara · December 21, 2002, 10:06 AM

All but one of my 1911s are currently loaded with 185gr +P Golden Sabers. I think it's the best because it was on sale. Check with me again in a couple of months when I've shot them all up to see what's on sa... er, best now.

sm · December 21, 2002, 10:50 AM

I Cheat

Along Tamara' s thinkin' Gunsmith orders big, a few of us split the order. Winchester 185 STHP always works. Got some 230 gr favorites too.
Range: we still like the 200 gr bullet from Montana bullets we load up...'nuther 20k bullets just came in. Most of us that split order learned looong time ago, get the reliable part figured, and at Defense distance...its the shooter not the bullet.

trapshooter · December 21, 2002, 11:03 AM

I like the Hornady 200gr XTP's, in front of Blue Dot. A nice compromise between velocity and energy. Easy to load. Yes, I carry reloads...mine, or factory ammo. But I like consistency, and I am more consistent than the factory, and I don't load hot. I don't load for anyone else. They only work in my weapons, no others. Mas Ayoob aside, I'll take my chances, since I don't CCW (check my state).

OTOH, like Tam, if I see a deal (either components or factory rounds), I am free to change my mind. I usually don't mess with sight adjustment when switching around, I move my POA instead. (I keep them set for my own load). It usually boils down to the difference between top, center, or bottom hold, at acceptable handgun ranges anyway.

gryphon · December 21, 2002, 11:29 AM

230gr ball ammo always seemed to work the best for me in any of my .45ACP firing platforms.

WESHOOT2 · December 21, 2002, 11:31 AM

I prefer, use, and recommend 230g bullets due to their sectional density and momentum.

That said, I can also offer reasons why a 200g or 185g bullet MIGHT be a correct choice; task-specific.

For social work suggest 230g.

sm · December 21, 2002, 11:56 AM

Task specific
185's for "indoor" offices, apts...
agreed- prefer the 230, SXT been working ok for 'social'

Ala Dan · December 21, 2002, 02:12 PM

work for me, in my SIG-Sauer P220A!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

7th Fleet · December 21, 2002, 03:53 PM

Here's another vote for the good ole 230 grain which the gun was designed for. People generally choose .45s because they prefer heavy bullets, so why go with anything ligther?

7th

Paul Fitz Jones · December 21, 2002, 05:27 PM

The 200 grain H&G 068 bullet with its lesser recoil is the favorite combat groups bullet as it is easier to master and is proven more accurate and good for paper punching to make the target point of impact readable during firing.

lonegunman · December 21, 2002, 05:33 PM

motorep:

your quote:

"I sight in at 25 yards and they're flat to there."

makes no sense to me. Everything is flat at the distance the gun is sighted in at. Thats why its called "sighted in".

riverdog · December 21, 2002, 05:57 PM

My usual defense load is a 230 gr Gold Dot at the normal 850 FPS (Black Hills). Lately though, I've been looking very closely at Hornady's 200 gr XTP and I really like the numbers. It has a fairly wide effective velocity range (700-1250). I would guess that a 200 gr XTP loaded to about 1000FPS would be very controllable and effective whether fired from a 5" or 4" barrel. YMMV

trapshooter · December 21, 2002, 07:58 PM

That's exactly why I load them, Riverdog. I really like them, versatility-wise. But, I've been known to carry hardball, 230gr Gold-dots, Silvertips, you name it. Basically, you dance with the one who brung you, or the one you brought. I shoot a bit of everything. That way, I don't get stuck at the ammo shop with no choices, if I'm in a pinch.

M1911 · December 21, 2002, 08:11 PM

Quote:

If you're going to be expecting to be shooting at longer ranges

If I'm expecting to be shootin' at any range in a particular location, then I'll change my itinerary and be somewheres else

I'm happy with 230 gr Hydrashok in my 5" and 185 gr Golden Saber in my 4". YMMV.

December 20, 2002, 06:11 PM	#2
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,457	Most 45's were "designed' to shoot the 230 gr ammo, and I think the best 230 gr load out there is the hydra-shock. Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, Fail-Safes are all good too. However, I mixed up a wicked hot (not +p but close, load) mix of 200 gr Hornady flat nose fmj and 9 grain of AA#5. I've never seen a commercial load that comes close to that one. Most of the 185 gr stuff on the market shoots significantly higher from point of aim on my fixed sight handguns. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

December 20, 2002, 06:21 PM	#3
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,015	Many feel that the standard 230 grain loads are fine with a full size gun but that some of the lighter weight bullets are better when carrying a short barrel gun due to the resulting velocity losses. __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

December 20, 2002, 08:43 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,141	"That is why a lighter bullet is contraindicated in a shorter barrel weapon." Question is, at what range does that happen? Or, the bigger question is, does that really matter for the purposes for which most of us carry handguns -- short range personal protection? If you're going to be expecting to be shooting at longer ranges, which is quite frankly somewhat hard to justify with a civilian CCW-type gun, my way of thinking is that you should already be carrying a longer-barreled weapon. Just food for thought... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 20, 2002, 08:50 PM	#8
MrAcheson Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2002 Posts: 442	At one point in time the 230gr JHPs had trouble with expansion. The big and slow bullet theory doesn't work real well for hollowpoints that need speed to expand especially since the bigger the HP the more force/speed it takes to expand it. I think the current HP designs have alleviated this problem though. __________________ These views are not representative of those held by the US Army, DoD, or US Government. Jeffthebaptist.blogspot.com

December 21, 2002, 03:47 AM	#11
New_comer Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2001 Location: Manila, Phil. Posts: 1,004	The 45ACP should always be big and slow. At 230 gr and 850 fps. Else it's magic will begin to fade. Then the 9mm will no longer have a worthy pretender to its throne... __________________ Regards, New_comer USP9F, Remington 870 "It not in the size of the thing, it's how you use it..."

December 20, 2002, 05:33 PM	#1
Drjones Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Posts: 1,239	Best bullet grain for .45? What is the best bullet weight for defense and why? My bullets of choice are Speer Gold Dots, and I got 230gr. Would lighter be better? What are the advantages/disadvantages of light vs. heavy? Thank you Drjones

December 20, 2002, 06:37 PM	#4
motorep Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: morrison, co,us Posts: 536	I think that you'll find most people using the 230s. I prefer the lighter 185/200s, they're flatter shooting than the 230s. I sight in at 25 yards and they're flat to there.

December 20, 2002, 07:07 PM	#5
Frohickey Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 580	Depends on the barrel length of the gun. Speer Gold Dots, 230grain +P are good for shorter barrel 45s, in that you need the extra power to push them faster out of a shorter barrel. A certain range of velocity is needed in order to open up the bullet. If you go too fast, the bullet opens up too soon, and you lose penetration. __________________ Frohickey -- TFL Alumni SigSauer, if you are listening, MAKE A DOUBLE-STACK 10mm PISTOL!

December 20, 2002, 08:52 PM	#9
DrDremel Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 68	I would say that the 230 grain bullet is the .45 round. Anything else is a modification. I would not worry about barrel length. The 230 will do just fine at any speed a pistol can throw it.

December 21, 2002, 07:47 AM	#12
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,025	Depends on the gun. Runt's USP45c is much more accurate with 185gr than with 230gr. My late G21 wouldn't function with any 185gr! __________________ Oleg "peacemonger" Volk Human Life is Worth Defending.

December 21, 2002, 10:06 AM	#13
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 15,858	All but one of my 1911s are currently loaded with 185gr +P Golden Sabers. I think it's the best because it was on sale. Check with me again in a couple of months when I've shot them all up to see what's on sa... er, best now. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

December 21, 2002, 10:50 AM	#14
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2002 Posts: 1,771	I Cheat Along Tamara' s thinkin' Gunsmith orders big, a few of us split the order. Winchester 185 STHP always works. Got some 230 gr favorites too. Range: we still like the 200 gr bullet from Montana bullets we load up...'nuther 20k bullets just came in. Most of us that split order learned looong time ago, get the reliable part figured, and at Defense distance...its the shooter not the bullet. __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

December 21, 2002, 11:03 AM	#15
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	I like the Hornady 200gr XTP's, in front of Blue Dot. A nice compromise between velocity and energy. Easy to load. Yes, I carry reloads...mine, or factory ammo. But I like consistency, and I am more consistent than the factory, and I don't load hot. I don't load for anyone else. They only work in my weapons, no others. Mas Ayoob aside, I'll take my chances, since I don't CCW (check my state). OTOH, like Tam, if I see a deal (either components or factory rounds), I am free to change my mind. I usually don't mess with sight adjustment when switching around, I move my POA instead. (I keep them set for my own load). It usually boils down to the difference between top, center, or bottom hold, at acceptable handgun ranges anyway.

December 21, 2002, 11:29 AM	#16
gryphon Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,069	230gr ball ammo always seemed to work the best for me in any of my .45ACP firing platforms. __________________ Your suffering will be legendary, even in HELL!! --- PinHead, HellRaiser 2

December 21, 2002, 11:31 AM	#17
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 12,927	JUST ME (and maybe a few million others) I prefer, use, and recommend 230g bullets due to their sectional density and momentum. That said, I can also offer reasons why a 200g or 185g bullet MIGHT be a correct choice; task-specific. For social work suggest 230g. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 21, 2002, 11:56 AM	#18
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2002 Posts: 1,771	Task specific 185's for "indoor" offices, apts... agreed- prefer the 230, SXT been working ok for 'social' __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

December 21, 2002, 02:12 PM	#19
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 14, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,117	Federal's 230 grain "Hydra-Shok's" work for me, in my SIG-Sauer P220A! Best Wishes, Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

December 21, 2002, 03:53 PM	#20
7th Fleet Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,464	Here's another vote for the good ole 230 grain which the gun was designed for. People generally choose .45s because they prefer heavy bullets, so why go with anything ligther? 7th __________________ SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

December 21, 2002, 05:27 PM	#21
Paul Fitz Jones Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 266	H&G 200 gr bullet easier to master The 200 grain H&G 068 bullet with its lesser recoil is the favorite combat groups bullet as it is easier to master and is proven more accurate and good for paper punching to make the target point of impact readable during firing. __________________ Paul Fitz Jones Retired and Loving It Industry Manufacturer Competitor Police Firearms Instructor

December 21, 2002, 05:33 PM	#22
lonegunman Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2001 Location: deep in georgia Posts: 1,724	motorep: your quote: "I sight in at 25 yards and they're flat to there." makes no sense to me. Everything is flat at the distance the gun is sighted in at. Thats why its called "sighted in".

December 21, 2002, 05:57 PM	#23
riverdog Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2000 Posts: 809	My usual defense load is a 230 gr Gold Dot at the normal 850 FPS (Black Hills). Lately though, I've been looking very closely at Hornady's 200 gr XTP and I really like the numbers. It has a fairly wide effective velocity range (700-1250). I would guess that a 200 gr XTP loaded to about 1000FPS would be very controllable and effective whether fired from a 5" or 4" barrel. YMMV __________________ NRA Endowment Member TFL#6357

December 21, 2002, 07:58 PM	#24
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	That's exactly why I load them, Riverdog. I really like them, versatility-wise. But, I've been known to carry hardball, 230gr Gold-dots, Silvertips, you name it. Basically, you dance with the one who brung you, or the one you brought. I shoot a bit of everything. That way, I don't get stuck at the ammo shop with no choices, if I'm in a pinch.