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Old December 7, 2002, 06:59 PM   #1
MJRW
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I pulled myself off of the range today

Was shooting my baby eagle and my new SAR-1. Had my brother and a co-worker there. Also, at one point the couple next to me and I ended up exchanging guns. Well, for some reason I wasn't really paying attention and I had my (unloaded, action open) handgun pointed at myself in my hand while moving the table. I was upset by this. I realized I wasn't really paying attention. Packed up, went home. Scared myself.
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Old December 7, 2002, 08:07 PM   #2
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We all get wake up calls from time to time and we all must strive to improve our awareness of what is going on around us. The older I get the more paranoid I become. You are to be commended that you did indeed notice your actions and the danger they could have created. Our local police department range was open to the public today and I made the scene. A friend who I introduced to handloading was next to me on the line shooting his Smith& Wesson revolver. He stopped and said that he had a misfire. We examined his handgun and noticed that a bullet was lodged in the barrel just inside the forcing cone. I believe that he had loaded a round up without any powder in it.Thank goodness he stopped when he noticed something was amiss and did not drive another round down the barrel. We got the bullet out with the help of a ball peen hammer and a screwdriver. I did not hestitate to warn him of what could have happen and to always check the powder level in his cases before he seated a bullet. I was talking to myself as well.
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Old December 8, 2002, 10:23 AM   #3
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Had a "scared myself" happen the other day, too... Took a revolver out of the range bag (ergo, not my carry piece) and went to load it, only to discover it was already loaded. Apparently I'd loaded it sometime back and never unloaded it. Gave me a cold sweat, I'll tell you!

Safe gun handling is a Good Thing (tm)! Rule #1, all guns are loaded, all the time!

-0-
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Old December 8, 2002, 04:59 PM   #4
Jamie Young
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I've pulled myself off the range before, also.

I pulled my Ruger 10/22 out of its case while it was laying on the table. I noticed that there was a leak in the roof that covered the benches and water was coming down on the gun (it was raining pretty hard) so I picked up the gun and pointed it right at the person next to me.

I sat down for awhile.
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Old December 9, 2002, 02:40 PM   #5
Thorazine
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Quote:
Scared myself.
Quote:
unloaded, action open
Yup, a bullet might have magically materialized into the chamber, the slide release might have given way and the trigger might have pulled all by itself.

Good thing! Better safe than sorry!

Quote:
Rule #1, all guns are loaded, all the time!
Until you've checked and then double checked it's condition. Rack that slide baby and visually inspect the chamber.

Then a gun is as safe as a hammer, if not safer!

For christ sakes, stop demonizing guns!

Quote:
We examined his handgun and noticed that a bullet was lodged in the barrel just inside the forcing cone.
Good job! Way to stay alert!

Quote:
I picked up the gun and pointed it right at the person next to me.
Where was your trigger finger?
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Old December 9, 2002, 02:46 PM   #6
MJRW
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No one is demonizing the gun. What I think most of us are "demonizing" is the habit. If your habit does not include pointing in a safe direction, then your habit could point a loaded gun at yourself or others. The reason I was scared was that I realized I was not aware of where my muzzle was pointed and this forces one to wonder if this has occurred before or will occur again.
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Old December 9, 2002, 03:55 PM   #7
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I left the range once when I was shootin' my Mini-14 Ranch rifle and one of the ejected brass hit a guy next to me right above his eye. Gave him a nice half-moon cut and it bled. Felt bad, apologized, guy was nice enough, and went on my way...
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Old December 9, 2002, 07:45 PM   #8
Thorazine
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I realize the important safety issue of keeping your muzzle pointed in a safe direction. This is perhaps a virtue that i was just born with. I just don't believe sweeping yourself with a unloaded firearm, action open, is enough to send you packing or a trip to the psycologist for therapy sessions.

Quote:
Felt bad, apologized, guy was nice enough, and went on my way...
Accidents happen. If I got a dollar for every time i was hit by ejected brass i'd be bill gate's status. I don't see why you left the range. I swear some ranges were designed for short people, the dividers are not nearly at adaqute height to catch your flying brass. Very little you can do about it.

Quote:
If your habit does not include pointing in a safe direction, then your habit could point a loaded gun at yourself or others.
When i think of a "habit" i think of smoking, drug addiction, etc. When i think of someone who points a muzzle of a gun at others, i think of lack of common sense.

I remember one time when i was at a local gun store, there was a great deal on a hk compact forty. I couldn't pass it up. It was used and i asked permission to field strip and examine the pistol.

The gun was first cleared and chamber inspected by the clerk and after he handed it over to me i repeated the same procedure as i always do. Gun is clear now i proceeded to remove the frame from the slide, placed the frame on the table mat, removed the barrel and recoil spring and placed them on the table mat (clerk was watching me throughout the entire process). I brought the slide up to eye level and was looking at the area where the hammer strikes and the clerk jumped away and shouted at me "don't ever do that again". I asked, "do what again?" he said, "don't ever point a pistol at me."

I stood there, speachless for a few seconds, i'm holding a stripped upper, no barrel..

I called him... i think i said "douchebag".. laughed and left the store.
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Old December 9, 2002, 09:58 PM   #9
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The idea of the Four Rules is that they are a redundant safety system. Even if You goof up rule 1, you're OK as long as you're obeying rule #2. Even if you goof up 1 and 2, you're ok as long as you're following rule #3. Etc etc etc.

However, just because its a triple-redunant safety system doesn't mean that violating one or two of the Rules is bright idea. Sure, in the situations mentioned above nothing bad is going to happen, but it builds complacency. One day you'll violate one of the rules and not notice. And then a few weeks later you'll do it again. And then one day you'll violate two rules together and maybe put a hole in something. maybe you'll learn from it, maybe you won't. Eventually you'll end up putting a hole in something important.

The key was this...he recognized that he wasn't paying attention. He wasn't scared by his own empty gun, he was scared that he was being inattentive and next time the gun might not be unloaded. Inattention when messing with any tool is a bad idea. Inattention with a hammer can get you a sore thumb. Inattention with a car can get someone killed. Inattention with a gun can get someone killed too.
[/soapbox][/rant]

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Old December 9, 2002, 11:55 PM   #10
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Good move.

Take some Ginko and some St Johns Wort next time before you go out shooting. Bring your brain.

Kudos to you gents for having the wisdom to realize your not up to shooting that day.
I've done that in the past. I've also told my self "I'll just be more carefull now" and been foolish enough to continue. Nothing very bad happened, but I wasn't shooting very well either. Pretty much wasted ammo.
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Old December 29, 2002, 11:05 PM   #11
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I think you could've just given yourself a stern warning for the first offense, with the understanding that a second offense would result in your expulsion.
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Old December 30, 2002, 12:35 AM   #12
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Some folks just don't get it, but we all have choices.


My choice is to avoid being around any mix of firearms and people with ideas like Thorazine's.

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Old December 30, 2002, 07:09 AM   #13
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Okay, so you pulled yourself off the range because you were unable to pay attention to what you were doing and violated safe gun handling rules. So then you decided it was a good idea to go drive your car home? So you replaced handling one type of dangerous tool with another.
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Old June 2, 2004, 07:17 PM   #14
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This struck a chord.
I've found myself absent-minded from time to time as well (around power-tools), but thank God not yet thus far around firearms.
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Old June 2, 2004, 07:24 PM   #15
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yep probably day dreamed all the way home.

i had a unintentional discharge when out in the woods manually decocking my p90, almost shot my toe off.
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Old June 21, 2004, 03:36 PM   #16
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Good thread!

I've also packed it up and left the range. Probably twice that I can recall. I view it as a form of punishment for me not being fully aware of what I'm doing. If my head is up my arse I don't need to be playing with firearms!

I've also left due to others lax attitude, but usually I mention something about firearm safety before I leave.

Me: So I guess you didn't get much sleep last night.
Them: Huh?
Me: Yep I'm guessin that or you don't understand the basic rules of firearm safety cause you just swept me with your 1911 and I see the mag is still in!

Thats when I leave....
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Old December 4, 2004, 08:19 AM   #17
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Wow....good call. At least you got home safe.
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Old December 5, 2004, 10:23 AM   #18
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I had an occasion to scream at a store employee once at a large national chain when for the third time after he pulled a pistol from the showcase and then swept me with the barrel and then after racking the slide without really looking to check the weapon, he dry snapped the hammer down.
I lost it and said " My son is here, and I want him to live at least till I get out of the store," The clerk looked at me with the universal look of stupidity and said "huh?" I asked to speak the manager on duty and asked him if he understood why I was so upset. His response was all the guns in the cabinet were empty and I was overstating the fear I felt.
I explained to him the rules of safe gunhandling and he repeated himself "but all the guns are unloaded."
I decided then and there I would not return to the store.

The other instance that was so scary was while at a old timey gun shop in the old part of time I found an Ithaca Deerslayer that i was looking for and when I racked the action a 2 3/4 inch OO buckshot round fell to the floor.

None of the firearms had a triggerlock on them. After the manager got everyone out they walked around and found four more loaded 12 guage shotgun and an empty box from the buckshot. They figured either some looney or someone had an axe to grind. Either way the incident really scared the manager. And nearly caused me to wet my pants...
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Old December 5, 2004, 11:16 PM   #19
Fen
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I've never left the range for botching a rule, but I have simply corrected myself and stopped for a bit to collect my wits before continuing.

Along the lines with what guntotin_fool just said; The guys at my favorite local shop do something I notice and take to high regards. Every single time they pull a firearm out of the case to show a customer, they point it at the floor next to them and inspect it. Then, upon receiving the firearm back from the customer, they do it again.
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Old December 7, 2004, 08:11 AM   #20
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You did good...

I've known 2 people that were shot with "UNLOADED" guns(luckily not seriously)...So I'm paranoid about rule #1...I've beaten this into my kids heads, too, and I'm proud to say they are just as paranoid...And as to lack of attention, I'm missing the whole tip of my index (trigger) finger, from a brief moment fo inattention when using a table saw...I've worked with all kinds of "dangerous" machinery, since I was quite young (my Dad was a machinist, use to let me run all sorts of stuff when I was 9-10 years old)...It only takes a split second...I, of course, still use the table saw, but only when I'm able to concentrate TOTALLY to the job at hand...Ditto, goes for shooting....
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Old December 10, 2004, 01:53 AM   #21
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One of my friends once told me "No one is safer with a gun than I am. Not even a cop." Two years later, he shot himself in the foot at MCRD San Diego. Safe? He was in the barrics!

I tend to get annoying to the people I go shooting with because of my safety habits. Simple as this: Gun is in the closet. Pick up gun, remove clip, check clip, place empty clip in shooting bag. Pull slide, check chamber, release slide. Place in shooting bag. Grab ammo, go to car, drive to range. Open shooting bag, pick up gun, check chamber, place in holster, grab ammo and clips, go to table. Load clips, check chamber, lock slide open, insert clip. Shoot to heart's content, then reverse order.

My friends tend to get mad at me because I "Check [my] gun too darn much!" Picked up a friend's gun one time, asked, "Is it loaded?" "No." Pointed down range, pulled trigger, shot fired, shell ejected. So I'm careful. Anyone who can't understand that shouldn't be shooting with me. And now most don't. *shrugs* Traded safety for friends?
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Old December 18, 2004, 08:56 PM   #22
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To add to chiram's post, when ever handgun is out of my hand, mag is removed, slide is all the way back, chamber checked, gun pointed down range, on case, no extra targets, ammo, or jackets on the side of case, with revolvers, cylinder is swung out, and pointed down range. Learned this from a frined's dad a long time ago, always point a loaded gun in a "safe" direction, every gun is to be considered loaded even if you have just checked it.
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Old December 18, 2004, 09:14 PM   #23
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just another .02 chime in
all guns are loaded all the time
every time I pick up a firearm
I check the chamber
this was drilled into all of us
during my naval service
check the chamber and the mag well
visually and manually. (little finger of
left hand through ejection port into
chamber and fingers up into magwell)
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Old December 21, 2004, 02:40 AM   #24
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Checking for safety is just plain common sense. If you are not 100% sure, check. It takes a second and no one really complains (at least in my experience, many appreciate it). The interval or when a person should check is up to the person holding the gun. I am sure many here have seen many things we would not comfortable with at the range and some of us speak up, and some of us roll our eyes and say to ourselves...NEWBIE.

There is a point where the safety issue become a neurotic issue rather than plain out common sense. It is like drinking and driving. If you drink, don't drive. It's just common sense. If you drink, then drive and then sit there and worry about it, then you got other issues to deal with.

When my wife and I come home from the range, we clean our guns. All the guns to be cleaned are checked and cleared then taken to the "cleaning table" where we sit across from each other and clean our guns. We both know that none of the guns are loaded, and we leave all the ammo in our range bag. During this time, I am not overly freaked out about an AD. All the guns are either broken down and/or open with solvent all over them. Many time muzzle are pointed at me and many times muzzle are pointed at my wife. It's not intentional muzzle sweeping, we are just cleaning. As I have stated, the ammo is in another room, in the bag, and all guns that are to be cleaned are cleared. This is the only time, I don't have a problem w/ a muzzle sweeping me. Once all the cleaning is done and everything is packed up and the guns leave the "cleaning table", we go back to condition RED and all safety rules apply. Other people do things their way. I may not like it, but then they might not like the way I do things.
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Old December 22, 2004, 03:21 AM   #25
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Ninjato, I believe you are comparing apples to oranges, at a range, where somebody else has handled your weapon, and it has been out of your control, bad things can happen. I am not familiar with the handgun, but I assume the slide or release could have hit something on the table, and been placed into battery, and while reaching for something else, he could have hit the trigger, improbable yes, impossible maybe not.

You seem to think only "eastern martial arts", are legitimate, you chastised me for messing around, during a training session, for not concentrating perhaps, I don't know. Boxing, wrestling, and small arms are legit martial arts, in my opinion, martial arts, aren't a religion to me or a lifestyle, they are forms of combat, all deserve concentration, and focus. This guy seems to have lost focus, and left. He might consider his small arms skills as important as you consider some of your skill sets. So your analogy of being swept, by somebody you trust is not quite the same. If you do not care about cleaning weapons across from each other that is fine, I wouldn't clean a weapon like that. The fact of who unloaded what weapon, and when more than 1 person is involved, the chance of an AD increases.
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