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Old December 13, 2002, 05:42 PM   #26
Monkeyleg
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Kentucky Rifle, why does the phrase "physician heal thyself" keep bouncing around in my head?

I was concerned about having friends help and then get injured, so I called some moving companies. The one I hired is going to charge just $150 to take it out of my friend's basement and put it in my upstairs. The way I look at it, a dinner for four of us would run that much!
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Old December 13, 2002, 06:45 PM   #27
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Monkeyleg:

$150? Suppose you hurt your back while moving the darn thing and are out of work for a few weeks (and in pain for quite a few more). How much is that worth? Or you drop it on your friend's foot and cause permanent injury. How much will that cost?

$150? Cheap money as far as I'm concerned.

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Old December 14, 2002, 03:35 PM   #28
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M1911...

I think you misunderstood Monkeyleg's post.
He IS going to pony up the $150 to have the safe professionally moved. (But you are right about it being the right thing to do.)

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Old December 14, 2002, 04:54 PM   #29
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An interesting idea I have seen done once or twice is to drop the safe into the cement in your basement. That way the only thinbg that is shoing is the door. You just place something over it and nobody knows its there. Obviously the size is somewhat more restrictive here. But as an added bonus you couldn't get much more secure or fireproof.
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Old December 14, 2002, 05:14 PM   #30
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Old December 14, 2002, 06:06 PM   #31
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Glock;PhD, it would be a sin to put a safe as pretty as this into cement. It really is nice looking, and built like a tank.

The three guys who moved it had a horrible time trying to get it up the stairs to the second floor, and they were three strong young bucks. The lead mover said it was the worst moving project he'd ever had. I couldn't imagine four forty-something's trying to tackle this job.

Damn, it really feels good to have a real safe! I can't explain why I feel this way, but it's better than buying a new gun. Really.
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Old December 14, 2002, 06:15 PM   #32
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M1911...

No problem.
Your opinion was indeed correct. Leave moving the safe to the guys who do it for a living! Safes are heavy, unwieldly things. (Re: my little "side story" about the squashed doc.) They're MADE not to be moved around easily. If they were easy to move, the crooks could just run in, grab your safe and leave! I've never seen a safe with "handles" on it!

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Old December 14, 2002, 07:13 PM   #33
Nate Haler
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couple o' late comments on the safe thing

Costco (and perhaps other warehouse stores) sells a big a$$ safe, with fireproofing, 'curbside' delivery included, for $850. It's 17 cu.ft. and 530 lbs, and allegedly holds 14-28 firearms.

See here: http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?t...=10011256&log=

The other thing I've heard about for somewhat stealthy gun storage is converting an old refrig or freezer to a safe. You can buy 'em cheap, they blend into a garage no problem, they have lots of insulation (fireproofing). Put a hasp and padlock on it, with maybe a few beer type stickers, and the scumbag thieves (redundant, sorry) might be too busy looking elsewhere to realize what's what.

The neatest safe I saw was at an old-timer's place, while getting his thoughts and expertise on varmint hunting. He regaled me with stories, and kept reaching into a typical safe in his office to pull out rifle after rifle. I sat there watching and listening. He then mentioned that his best rifles were kept separate, and if they were a snake they would have bitten me.

What the ? I was sitting on them! He had a horizontally oriented safe, with a thick upholstered cushion on top. I hadn't even noticed and I was sitting there for 45 minutes.

He said the horizontal setup also kept his vintage rifles from getting their old recoil pads squashed, like when stored muzzle up.

Last thought/recommendation, from a sheriff deputy pal: "You want the scumbag thief (there I go again) to go to an easier target. Like a mugger will probably pass by a tough guy, in favor of jumping a pencil neck like Charlie Shumer. And most burglars are in a real hurry, smash and grab sorta stuff, and then out the door. So if a real safe isn't a practical option, make a 'safe' closet.

Yank the hollow-core door and replace it with a solid-core type. Replace the hinges with the type that don't have the pin you just tap out, or drill through both sides of all hinges (3 hinges are better than 2 with a heavy door) and then install steel pins into the doorframe that will engage the holes in the hinges when the door is closed. (Can't lift it off that way...)

Replace the doorknob with a good deadbolt.

Won't stop a truly determined scumbag with enough time, but it will prevent the crank fiend from getting inside who only spends 60 seconds racing through your house.

You can also keep food, flashlight, water, and the obvious hardware in the closet (depending on size) to use as a safe room if you worry about home invasion robbery, etc.

Be sure to get/use a deadbolt with a latch on the inside so you're not stuck in there without a key.


In an ideal world (presuming we can't ban weak-minded lying liberals, dang, talk about redundant!), 2nd Amendment proponents would rest easy while the rest are laying awake at night, wondering how many criminals have seen their federally required front door placards (lighted per regulation), which read: "Certified Unarmed Household". :barf:

Last edited by Nate Haler; December 15, 2002 at 11:39 AM.
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Old December 15, 2002, 07:44 AM   #34
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A thought about moving a safe.

I've got a 72"x40"x28", 1250 lb safe.

I've moved it 4 times. Mostly with just myself, my wife and oldest daughter.

With a level headed mind, clear thinking and, most important, the proper tools moving it is not a problem. That is the reason pallet jacks, dollies, come-a-longs, cribbing, strapping, etc were invented. Just ask the Egyptians.
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Old December 15, 2002, 11:37 AM   #35
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personal for Gunny Schmit:

Might you have ever been aboard the LPH-9 USS Guam in your time in the Corps?

My girlfriend's dad was CO for a couple years in the late 70s, and he considered his time on the Guam among his happiest (and one of his proudest accomplishments). He just passed away, may he rest in peace, and it warms my heart to think of the noble fraternity you and other good men represent.

Semper Fi, and Go Navy!

Any of you posters out there that like to read, and need something besides the latest John Grisham trash, check out some outstanding fiction that contains lots of historical fact and neat information: The Corps, by W.E.B. Griffin

It's a series of books, not yet done either, with maybe 7 or 8 volumes so far. Great stuff.

All of the Griffin series are excellent, so you might look for his others too.

Happy holidays to all good Americans.
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Old December 15, 2002, 01:51 PM   #36
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You already got the safe but I couldn't resist making a few comments.
I bought a used Browning safe from a guy down on his luck locally. He helped me move it (I didn't know him and really hated to have a guy I didn't know in my house and knowing the combination to my safe). Right away I realized this was a mistake. First of all, it was everything we could do to move it. And I mean everything we could do to move it. It took us 10 minutes to get over the threshold of his front door. Second, all I could think about was, if this gets away from us, someone is going to get seriously hurt and that isn't worth the safe. I would rather lose my guns than have this safe fall on me. In addition to the saftey factor and the breech of security, I rented a heavy duty dolly and rented a trailer that was the same height as my front porch. So moving it myself was not a good deal from any standpoint.
When I decided to finally buy a safe (I had already had one home invasion twarted by my dog), I looked around and decided on a pretty much top end safe. The biggest one the guy had. But this used deal came along and I figured, it is 1/3 the money, and although it is a big safe it is only half as big as the one I initially was going to buy. Well half my gun collection is now OUT of the safe. Go big or stay home. A 14-28 gun safe would be good for the guns that I can't get in my present safe. In case anyone reading this wonders why they list a range (Like 14-28) gun capacity. If you have a scoped rifle in a slot, the slot opposite is likely not able to be used because the scope takes up that space in the safe.
I live in a $35k "manufactured home" and so far (fingers crossed) the safe hasn't gone through the floor. Nor do I think there is much danger of that. Although my floor might actually be stronger than that in a residential stick built home, I am not sure.
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Old December 15, 2002, 11:06 PM   #37
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444, read you loud and clear. Those scopes take up a lot of room. So do cases of ammo, magazines, and other assorted gear).

Schmit, I'm guessing that I'm maybe 25 to 30 years older than you. When you're 52, come back and tell me how easy it is to move a safe. You just wait: you can't be a skinny jarhead forever!
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Old December 15, 2002, 11:11 PM   #38
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Cases of ammo ? Why put that in a safe ? I am lucky to have room for paperwork, let alone half my guns. I don't have any magazines in there either. I do have a couple knives in there but that is it.
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Old December 16, 2002, 12:42 PM   #39
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I posted this three years back, it's still an option.

"There is another route: Some of our governmental entites are disposing of the vaults in which the old (paper) computer tapes were stored. Presumably they have upgraded storage systems. I came up with a safe which is about 66" high X 70" wide (double doors) X 24" deep inside. It has 4 inches of concrete (I don't know what kind of a fire rating this gives, but it is very high), and weighs about 5000 lbs. The inside did require racks and shelves, but for what I have in this unit, I'd happily do it again. Check your local gov't surplus auctions and bid low!"

Bob
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Old December 16, 2002, 11:05 PM   #40
Monkeyleg
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444, I now have a 25 cubic foot safe, and just a bit more than a handful of guns. Obviously, that's a problem.

Part of the pitch I made to my wife regarding purchasing a safe was that there wouldn't be guns in the closets, ammo in the cupboards, magazines in her nighties drawer, knives in the refrigerator, and holsters in the china cabinets.

The first step in establishing Homeland Security is to make sure the boss of your personal homeland isn't ticked off at you.
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Old December 17, 2002, 03:49 AM   #41
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Does anyone know how easy and how much $$ it is to put a new combination lock on a safe? I got a lead on a gov't surplus safe, but it doesn't have the combo dial on it.
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Old December 17, 2002, 01:23 PM   #42
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I would also like to know about putting a new combination lock on a safe. In reference to government surplus; I bought a four drawer file cabinet that was used at the Nevada Test Site. It has the US Atomic Energy Commision name plates and all that. It is a pretty much standard size four drawer file cabinet but weighs as much as a safe. It got away from me coming out of the bed of my pickup and broke the concrete on my porch. The dial for the lock is also missing, this must be standard proceedure. It was not only for secure materials but is also fireproof. I am sure it once contained all kinds of top secret documents at area 51 complete with flying saucer blueprints, alien autopsy records and the like.

Monkeyleg; You will have to excuse me, I have been single for over 10 years. I have my reloading benches set up in the living room and cases of ammo all over the floor.
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Old December 19, 2002, 08:07 PM   #43
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Does anyone have one of the safes from http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?...d=10011256&log=
that cost $850.00 delivered that nate haler suggested ? This looks like a pretty good deal. Thanks for any more information someone may have on these safes.
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Old December 19, 2002, 09:03 PM   #44
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CARman-

Yep; maybe I can help you.
It is a Cannon safe; used to be on their website; or catalogue; nt both. Check by dimensions; under American Eagle logo.

Very similar, but less deep than the one at www.libertylock.com by 2 inches.
Keep in mind that Costco provides ONLY curbside delivery; getting it in or up steps is YOUR responsibility. Need AT LEAST a double-axle 'fridge hand dolly; much easier. Seen it done.

Let me recommend Brian or Maureen at Liberty again.
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Old December 20, 2002, 05:38 PM   #45
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What I learned about safes...

Spent a loooong time looking for a safe, and finally bought one about a year ago. I decided NOT to go for a fire-rated unit that was all spit polished and gold plated. Instead, I went for safe rated in terms of burglary rating - how long it takes a knowledgeble person, with the appropriate tools, and diagrams / drawings to break into the safe in question.

I ended up going with a unit that is referred to as being a 'Plate' safe - all sides, top, bottom and door are made of plate steel. In my case, everything but the door is 1/2" plate, the door is 1" plate. That's 1" of SOLID steel in the door, and 1/2" of SOLID steel everywhere else.

When I checked with all the 'name brand' safes (Liberty, Cannon, etc.) I found that their construction consisted of dry-wall sandwiched between two thin sheets of steel, typically 10 GA (0.120") or less thick per sheet. Having drilled through stuff like this before (ever do body work on a car?), I knew there wasn't much security provided by something so thin. Yes, the dry-wall is a fire barrier, but...

Dry-wall fire barriers do their job by trading off moisture for temperature. So, add heat to dry-wall, and you get steam, until all the water has cooked off - then you get the heat. This steam has to go somewhere, and in the case of a safe, the steam goes inside. Then, presto! your safe is now a sauna. All the stuff you have in your safe is now mush, and likely worthless. Metal will quickly rust, wood warps, and paper materials turn to crud.

Here are the recommendations that I can make for a safe:
1) get a plate safe - most protection for your $$$
2) get the biggest one that will fit inside your house that you can afford
3) put it in the basement (cooler in a fire, and no risk of it falling through the floor)
4) bolt it to the floor so it can't tip when you open the door, and so a thief can't drag it out and open it at their leisure
5) have a professional move it in - note, I'm talking about safes that are measured in TONS, not pounds
6) conceal it, like in a closet or other space - don't show it off - all it does is advertise that there's something VALUABLE inside
7) the most tender spot on a safe is one of the sides or the top - protect those areas where possible with walls or other obstruction
8) REMEMBER: a safe only buys time, and deters those who are in for the quick grab. If you look for bugulary ratings, you'll find that safes exist for protection from explosives

Aloha!
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Old December 21, 2002, 12:24 PM   #46
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One comment on "fire proof" safes. A lot of people have fire senarios in their mind that are absolute worst case senarios. I agree that in a worst case senario, a fire safe very well might not protect your stuff. But most house fires are not worst case senarios from the standpoint of safe fire ratings. First of all, most of us do not live in an area where there is no one to fight the fire. Most of us live in an area where a fire department will respond in a reasonable time frame and begin fighting the fire. If you don't, to me, this is all the more reason to take whatever steps possible to protect against fire including using a fire rated safe. Second, few of us have houses that will completely contain the fire gases allowing the room to reach fantasic temperatures. The windows will shatter, doors will be open etc. allowing some of the super heated products of combustion to escape. Yes it will still be hot, but not thousands of degrees hot. Of course if you have a huge fire load right next to the safe with direct flame impingement on the safe itself that is another story. I would guess that most of our safes will just be exposed to the fire gases. And this is all assuming that either the house is fully involved in fire, or the fire occured in the same room as the safe.
I really don't know what materials are used in safe construction but I would venture a guess that the fire material in a safe is not drywall but is sheet rock. Sheet rock is the same material used as a fire barrier in buildings. For example in the attic spaces of commercial buildings, sheetrock is hung to try and prevent fire spread. An example might be a strip mall where a fire breaks out in one business, and gets into the attic space. A sheetrock fire wall shoud be hung in between the various businesses so that the fire will not spread along the entire attic space. These barriers are time rated. In other words they might be requred to have a 30 minute fire wall in the attic. Extensive testing has determined how long these barriers can contain fire until they break down. This testing has shown that this is the best material to use for the job. So, I believe that it will also work in a safe. No, it won't be 100% reliable, yes it can break down given enough time and enough heat, but I feel it is well worth it. Any safe can be comprimised given enough time and the right tools. Same with the fire protection aspect of the safe. Nothing is fool proof, but we can try to come as close as we can.
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Old December 21, 2002, 04:43 PM   #47
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Some good posts, 444 and djsjd.

A question: is it safe (no pun intended) to store jugs of powder in a gun safe? I really don't know where to go with them, since both our basement and our garage are usually pretty damp. I've got a Goldenrod dehumdifier in my safe, but can't see that setting itself on fire. But, then, what do I know?
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Old December 21, 2002, 04:55 PM   #48
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With reference to Sentry safes. I bought mine from Wal-Mart and while most of the ones I looked at had only 3 to 5 locking lugs, I found one model that had 12 locking lugs and weighed 375 pounds. It isn't the largest safe around, but for $475 it was too good a deal to pass up. Tohelp negate the lack of weight, I lined the bottom of the safe with 1 pound lead ingots that brought the weight up to over 400 pounds.

My only complaint is that the safe is too small. It barely holds 8 long guns and my collection of handguns (over 15 and climbing), and as a result I will have to get another safe. What a shame//
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Old December 21, 2002, 10:52 PM   #49
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Regarding the question earlier in the thread about how much weight a residential floor is designed to safely support, the live-load design requirement in most residential building codes is 40 pounds per square foot. This spec assumes that a 40 psf load is spread out over the entire floor, so a point load can be considerably higher than that. Still, the weight of a bathtub full of water requires reinforcement beyond what is used for the rest of the floor, so I would think that some of the heavier safes being discussed here are getting beyond what residential floors are designed to safely handle.
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Old December 22, 2002, 12:19 PM   #50
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Plate safe source

http://www.brownsafe.com/gun_safe.html
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