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Old December 3, 2002, 07:16 PM   #1
Combat-Wombat
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What should I go with

I'm thinking about getting a shotgun, and I'm probably going to go with the Mossberg 500 mariner or persuader. I'm basing this decision on the fact that the M500 has the most custom parts avalible (folding stocks, slings, shell holders, and forward handgrips, considering Sarah Brady doesn't or hasn't already started some "sensible gun law" project against them.) Anyway, would you recommend any other customizible shotgun for home defense, or do you think the Mossberg is a high quality gun?
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Old December 3, 2002, 08:19 PM   #2
labgrade
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I'm gonna jump in a sound learned before someone who knows more about it does.

Get a shotgun that fits - first. Then, one that can be turned into what you want.

I prefer pumps & 870s at that, but any of the Big Four'll do you just fine without all the bells 'n whistles.

A stock pump in the hands of someone who knows what he's about is fearsome.

Rather than dropping the bucks on BnW, buy a couple cases of shells & go git good.
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Old December 4, 2002, 02:01 AM   #3
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What Labgrade said... Before wasting money on all the tactical doo-dah's, buy 1,000 rounds of cheap blasting ammo (the Wal-Mart specials are fine) and expend ALL of it on targets at varying ranges, speeds, altitudes, etc. By then, you'll have a very sore shoulder, a hugely increased skill level, and an understanding of what the basic shotgun can do in your hands. Then, decide which of the zippidy-doo-dah add-ons will make it shoot BETTER in your hands. You'd be amazed at how utterly useless many of the gadgets are, in terms of improving your shooting...

The one really important modification to your shotgun will be length-of-pull. Make sure that the stock is the right length for you - many of them are too long for rapid, easy mounting and shooting. Cut it to the right length, put a decent recoil pad on the end, and half your troubles are solved right there.

(BTW, Mossberg is an excellent shotgun, second only to the 870 IMHO. I own two of each, and like them all.)
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Old December 4, 2002, 06:00 AM   #4
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Does me good to see these responses.They do sound familiar, tho(G).

Nice job, guys....
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:08 AM   #5
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Where'd ya think we got 'em, Dave? {'sides, if we repeat the mantra enough, can we be in your book?}

Assuming shotgun fits right, I can't think of a single add-on that makes it shoot better - aside from perhaps a decent trigger.

Many are nice & some, even real helpful for SD (flashlight mount might be one), but a good stock pump's about as good as it gets.

The rest is always up to the shootist.

I've one 870 set up for SD & the only thing extra is an extension tube. The rest are factory stock. & it really wouldn't matter which one got grabbed ....
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Old December 4, 2002, 11:04 AM   #6
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Re above...Yep.

Tain't the gun
Tis the gunner.

Sam
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Old December 4, 2002, 06:48 PM   #7
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Ok, thanx for the info. I wouldnt go for the upgrades right away, but I want it to be easily concealed for car/home defense, so I don't really care about how well I can shoot it. What I really wanted to know was if the mossberg was a reliable gun. Thanks for the tips though!
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Old December 4, 2002, 07:18 PM   #8
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I want it to be easily concealed for car/home defense, so I don't really care about how well I can shoot it.

uh...are you planning on using it as a club? Just because MY mossy's work fine, and Preacherman's works fine, doesn't mean YOURS will work fine. The 1000 round suggestion would do two things: prove how reliable YOUR shotgun is, and will teach you how it shoots. My 590A1 would light strike on certain types of buckshot. without shooting a ton of it, i wouldn't have known that, and in a Home Defense scenario, that would suck to find out the hardway.

There are "accessories" for SGs, and "upgrades." Many "accessories" IMO are NOT upgrades. I would consider the following if the SG you buy did not not come with them:

1. ghost ring sights;
2.bantam stock (about 2" shorter); and
3. a light.

ghost rings are not necessary, a bead or rifle sights are easy to use too. But the factory 590A1 Ghost Rings are just too good not to buy installed. The shorter stock length is a personal preference, as i like a shorter LOP.
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Old December 4, 2002, 07:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
so I don't really care about how well I can shoot it
In that case get a bat, a small bat, so you can conceal it.

My point is, that if your not willing to learn how to use a gun (i.e. shoot it well), then don't use a gun for defence.

Well, that's my 2 cents,
Russ
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Old December 4, 2002, 07:41 PM   #10
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Okay, I dont really mean that I don't care how well I shoot it. I'm not saying that the 1000 round thing is a bad idea, all im saying is that accuracy isnt my concern.
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Old December 4, 2002, 08:38 PM   #11
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SHRIEK! GASP! HOWL!

Wombat, if you genuinely believe that "accuracy isnt my concern", then for Heaven's sake DON'T BUY ANY GUN AT ALL! You'll be an untrained, marksmanship-illiterate hazard to all of us, and will probably only survive an attack by a BG if he dies laughing at your attempts to hit him!

I'm not trying to "flame" you here, but your FIRST concern should be in using any weapon accurately. In a worst-case scenario, if you have to use the gun to defend yourself, you will be held accountable by the law for each and every round you fire. If you miss with one or more of them (or have just one pellet of buckshot bypass your target) and hit an innocent bystander, guess what? You're in a world of hurt - possibly under criminal law, almost certainly under civil lawsuit!

PLEASE, Wombat, either reconsider your attitude toward accuracy and familiarity with weapons, or sell all you've got and NEVER buy any more!
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Old December 4, 2002, 08:49 PM   #12
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Hey, i'm not saying that I wont use a gun accurately or i want a gun that'll spray shot all over unaccurately. All i was trying to say was I don't need sniper-rifle accuracy! I just want a gun that is compact, and PINPOINT accuracy isnt my main concern. Of COURSE i care about accuracy, But this isnt a long range gun, we're talking about a situation where it would be 10 feet!
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:16 PM   #13
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At 10 feet, the widest spread of an average cylinder bore shotgun is 3". That's less than 1/4 of the way across your desktop monitor.

Think you can't miss from 10 feet? Heh. Definitely time to practice. At that distance, think of it as a really effective rifle.

That kid on the other side of the sheetrock wall would much appreciate it if you centered your target, too.
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:20 PM   #14
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C-W, just curious, how old are you? Will this be your first gun?
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:47 PM   #15
labgrade
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March 9, 1989 according to profile.

Go easy, folks.

Now's a perfect opportunity to walk 'im through this .....
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:48 PM   #16
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I am 13 years old. And no this is not my first gun. I have a S&W M19 and a Browning Buckmark .22LR. Not that I personally would use the gun in home defense, but my parents are utterly defenseless, and a long gun is probably less "ugly" to them.
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Old December 4, 2002, 10:52 PM   #17
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I may be 13 but I'm very knowledgeable in the area of guns, and I'm a gun rights activist.
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Old December 4, 2002, 11:04 PM   #18
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Good for you, CW.

Seems there's been a misunderstanding, huh? Problem with the implications, not the messenger.

An extreme wealth of experience & info to be had here & it appears that you didn't get your message scross & some might have called you on it rather quickly.

Fact, I thought about calling Preacherman on his " ... your FIRST concern should be in using any weapon accurately."

I'd disagree. The first priority is safety, everything else comes after that. Figured I'd let it slide 'cause we know him & sometimes everything doesn't get conveyed as we wanted it to.

Such is life.

Start over?
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Old December 4, 2002, 11:14 PM   #19
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accuracy in 10 feet...

When I was with the Seabees (NMCB 133 - like 13 years ago) we performed small unit infantry training.

We wore MILES gear - it's pretty much a laser tag system hooked up to your toa weapon. When you shoot a blank, it activates the laser and the reception either kills the target (it beeped continuosly, made it so the weapon wouldn't be able to kill anyone, and must be shut off with a key) or wounds/shoots close to the target (two little chirps to let you know you're being shot at).

We set the dope on our 16's w/ the laser attached. Then we headed off to the woods to play 'war.' It was fun. We did everything from L shaped ambushes to 'frontal assaults' and a couple of old fashioned civil war charges just for fun (we were kids playing w/ nice toys).

One of the things I learned was that you better aim your darn weapon to hit anything! I mean use the sight and squeeze the trigger. Pray and spray ended up in a bunch of double chirps...well aimed shots ended in a constant chirp equalling the kill.

A shotgun and a carbine can be very intuitive weapons. They are meant to kill. If you're using one for self defense, then the other person is - in your mind- able to cause bodily harm. Not being very accurate may give the assailant the opportunity to do just that.

In the home I'm pretty much a well armed pacifist...I have kids and guns. The guns are locked seperately from the ammo, the weapons are in locked cases or a safe. All have trigger locks in addition to the locked safe or locked case with the exception of our shotguns - they are locked up too but without trigger locks because we use them so often for hunting.

My first purchase for home defense would be a cell phone. My second would be a dog. My third would be a weapon that I feel comfortable that my wife could wield safely and could be stored safely away from little hands.

Sorry for the diatribe...as for your choice of mossberg...my brother in law owns one and it's an awesome pump shotgun. We were breaking clays with it last weekend.

-Beetle
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Old December 5, 2002, 12:43 AM   #20
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Good point, friend Labgrade - I had taken safety for granted, I'm afraid, which is bad, because you're absolutely right. Safety first and foremost, then accuracy!

Wombat, hope you didn't mind my rather strong post. As you gain more experience with firearms, you'll find that it's rather more difficult to hit what you're aiming at - with ANY kind of firearm, handgun, shotgun, rifle or cannon - than would seem to be the case at first sight. Practice, practice, practice - and then practice some more! As a grizzled old Army Sergeant-Major once said to my teenage self, in tones of icy contempt (which I deserved!), "An amateur practices until he's got it right. A professional practices UNTIL HE CAN'T GET IT WRONG!"
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Old December 5, 2002, 06:38 PM   #21
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Ok, thanks guys, I think i misworded it a little. Thanks for the help
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Old December 5, 2002, 10:16 PM   #22
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CW,
A couple things off-topic. First, you are quite well-spoken (written?) for a young lad.
Second, you have shown a great deal of wisdom (I dare say beyond your years) to be able to take the advice of folks who have plenty to share, without taking offense as well. No pouting is good!
Please stick around. I think you'll find this to be one of the friendliest and "no-nonsense" boards around.
That's it.
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Old December 6, 2002, 12:48 PM   #23
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Glad to see everyone got things straightened out.

Some tips: 00 Buck loads fill body bags. Birdshot, regardless of what most people say, just makes nasty not usually fatal wounds. I've seen two guys hit by birdshot. If they'd intended to fight in the first place (they were attempted-murder victims) they would have continued to, but the shooter ran off. The shooter in one case used a Winchester 1300 with a 28" barrel from less than 10 feet, fired twice and hit the guy in the arm and the leg. So much for aiming eh? The other guy fired once from a NEF single-shot, and made a grazing body shot, the vic got peppered bad but very survivable. At VERY close (5 yards) birdshot with a proper center-mass hit will do the trick, but past that, I stick with 00 Buckshot.


C-W if you're 13, get the Bantam-stock model, or you might not be able to pump the action. Don't overload it with accessories either. A 6-shot Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel and a fiberoptic bead was my first shotgun, and for anything inside 30 yards, that'll do the job just fine. Maybe toss in a stock shell carrier and a light, and you're done.
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