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Old November 27, 2002, 06:30 PM   #1
Blue Duck357
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%#*^ CCI primers!

OK more mad at myself than anything else, my fault but it felt good to say it

Ran out of Federal and Winchester primers and every store I went to only had CCI. Had time off, bad weather, lots of brass and bullets. I know make up a small batch to try first but I didn't

Now I've got over 400 loaded rounds of 357 Magnum ammo with 5.5 grains of 231 and 158 grain laser cast bullets. Problem is they all have CCI primers which I just found out means I get 1/6 misfires with my stock 65 and 1/2 misfires with my "tuned" model 19.

Called Dillon to find out what I did wrong they said two things: First I bought CCI primers and second made up to big a batch without testing. Well at least they were honest, Don't you hate it when a plan falls apart
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Old November 27, 2002, 07:01 PM   #2
jjmorgan64
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I load all my budies ammo for his semi's with cci's,
all my revolvers get WLPs or Federal Small pistol,
same reason too many FTFs
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Old November 27, 2002, 07:16 PM   #3
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I got FTFs using CCI after changing springs in my GP100, always blamed it on the springs. No problems after switching to Win.
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Old November 27, 2002, 07:46 PM   #4
jimb124
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CCI primers...

I must be doing something wrong! I load 38 spl, 357 mag, 9MM, 45ACP, and 44 mag and have not had a FTF in all the time I've been reloading. I also use them in my 257 Robts, 308 and 30-06...

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Old November 27, 2002, 09:21 PM   #5
uglymofo
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Dunno about pistol, but their rifle primers are on the recommended list for M1A's because they're harder than some of the other OEM's and resist slamfiring a little better.
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Old November 27, 2002, 10:04 PM   #6
Cheapo
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Betcha your extreme spreads with those Win and Fed-primed loads are well above 60 fps, maybe even around 100 fps.

Tighten up your hammer spring properly and see what happens. Your CCIs will also go 100% then.

I sure hope your "tuned" gun isn't ever called upon for self-defense.
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Old November 27, 2002, 10:32 PM   #7
HSMITH
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If you leave the springs alone CCI work fine in my experience. Kitchen table gunsmithing has caused me problems with CCI primers, but once I put back or replaced what I had "fixed" all was fine again.
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Old November 27, 2002, 10:45 PM   #8
Blue Duck357
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As noted in the first post my 65 is stock. Last checkup during qulification it showed 8#'s of hammer fall which is twice the required spec so there should not be a problem there.

I'm wondering how much of a bad combination Dillon/CCI is as I've never had a problem with Winchester or Federal primers in either gun with the same loading outfit, yet some say they are doing ok with CCI, others (such as myself) are not having very good luck. The Dillon tech I talked to was not at all surprised at the problem but actually only seemed a bit confused as to why they were even feeding very well in the machien as he said a lot were out of spec both height and round wise. Maybe other machiens handle those variables better???
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Old November 27, 2002, 11:18 PM   #9
Archie
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Hmmmmm.

I don't have a misfire problem with CCI. However, my Dillon XL 650 will not reliably seat Federals. The small primers get cocked and crushed about 6 to 10 percent.

I use Winchester primers almost exclusively and they feed like grease through a goose. And no primer failures that I can't trace to high seating or some such operator error.

Oh... the Federals do work better in a friend's tuned PPC revolver. My PPC revolver bangs out the WW's regularly.
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Old November 27, 2002, 11:28 PM   #10
Mal H
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FWIW, I loaded some .38 Spcl using a hand primer (RCBS) and CCI primers the other day. I noticed that it took a lot more pressure to prime with the CCI than with the Win primers I almost always use (I needed CCI 550 primers for a particular experiment). This tells me the CCI's are ever-so-slightly larger in diameter than other primers. The CCI's also showed a slight indentation where the priming rod pressed hard against them. So it may be that your concern about Dillon/CCI being a bad combo might be true. The Dillon primer may not be able to exert enough force to fully seat the CCI primers.

Can you determine that the primers are fully seated in the pockets? They should, of course, be below the base of the shell by a few thousandths.

Are you getting as deep an indentation in a primer that failed as with a primer that worked? (A shallower dent usually means that some of the hammer force was expended in seating the primer further in the pocket.)

Does a second hammer hit usually fire a round that failed the first time?
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Old November 27, 2002, 11:32 PM   #11
trapguy
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I have loaded cci 500's in my new dillon sdb for 3 weeks now and not the first problem.
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Old November 28, 2002, 09:50 AM   #12
stans
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Make sure the primers are fully seated. CCI primers have harder cups than most other primers (except for military primers) and a highly tuned revolver with a light double action trigger may not ignite CCI primers.
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Old November 28, 2002, 10:02 AM   #13
Southla1
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I started using CCI primers so long ago I cant remember when............the 60's I am sure. Never had a problem with them then or now. If they are avaliable they are and will be my first choice.
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Old November 28, 2002, 11:18 AM   #14
labgrade
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Yup, me too. CCIs since mid-'60s. Think we used RWS primers for a .243 load & have used Win's SP when I couldn't get CCI.

CCIs through my 550 = no worries.

Only problem I've ever had with CCI was in a Python & double action. Traded that for a gun that shoots whatever I put in it. I'm a simple man that way.
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Old November 28, 2002, 12:01 PM   #15
Blue Duck357
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From reading around a bit it does appear to be a seating issue. Primers are below the base (rounds sit even on glass plate, no wobble) but affraid I don't know how to measure how far in the pocket they are. From feel it does seem they are not quite as deep as the Winchester or Federal rounds I've made. Sometimes they will fire on second attempt sometimes not (even with the stock gun).

But I guess the $20 question is why do Federal, Winchester and Remington primers seat perfectly with everything adjusted as is while CCI's don't???
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Old November 28, 2002, 03:01 PM   #16
Mal H
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If you have a dial caliper, you can check the seating depth by using the depth checking end of it. Set the end base tightly against the case head and dial out the stick until it just touches the primer. Check several cartridges and see if you find a variance of several thousandths in some of them.
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Old November 28, 2002, 03:40 PM   #17
MADISON
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CCI primers

I have not used CCI Primers since the 70's. I was getting about a 40% misfire ratio. I have been using Winchester ever since.
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Old November 28, 2002, 09:01 PM   #18
40ozflatfoot
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I prefer Winchester over all the others, but I'll even take Federal over CCI. I won't use CCI if there's a choice. They seem to bed a bit larger in diameter than the Winchesters; sometimes they hang up on the primer hold, and the side gets crunched...throw-away. Sometimes the anvil just drops off. I can usually count on at least one FTF per 50 rounds with the CCI. I never have to do that with the Winchesters.

I'm using the same RCBS Rock Chucker Combo I bought in the '70s, and it still keeps goin' like a freight train.
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Old November 29, 2002, 12:18 PM   #19
WESHOOT2
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PRIME REAL ESTATE

The cartridge becomes one when the primer successfully ignites powder.

CCI
R-P
W-W
Federal

Hardest to softest.

Fact = CCI primers can fail in tuned wheels.
So use Federal.

As for press woes, like always, each machine is its own distinct entity, and some will work fine, while others will drive one nuts.

Good thing there's four brands
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Old November 29, 2002, 12:24 PM   #20
WESHOOT2
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OTHER QUESTIONS

Which is most accurate?
Which offers lowest deviations?
Which can I trust my life to?

(Some of you may ask these next two.)
Which is cheapest?
Which can I find?

Go ahead, ask me which brand I use most often.
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Old November 29, 2002, 04:01 PM   #21
larryw
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OK, the suspense is killing me...what primers does WESHOOT2 use?
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Old November 29, 2002, 07:25 PM   #22
WESHOOT2
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OUTOFROUNDBOY

CCI most often.
I use R-P, Federal, and W-W too.

I get misfires in some of my wheels with CCI.

Feel better?
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Old November 29, 2002, 11:14 PM   #23
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Phew, just in the nick of time...feel much better now, thanks!
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Old November 30, 2002, 09:42 AM   #24
clown714
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i refuse to use CCI primers

i use WW or federal only.
JMNSHO

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Old November 30, 2002, 11:32 AM   #25
Chemistry
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I have used Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI, and Fiocchi (leadless) primers for years now.

I have had one bad batch of CCI small pistol primers, where my trusty Glock 17 would not detonate them on the first shot. I thought that maybe my striker pin spring was starting to go bad, so I switched to friend's Beretta M92, which has detonated everything, even the ultra-hard primers in GECO Safe Action Slugs (BAT) that make CCI's hardness pale in comparison. I still had failures to detonate on the first trigger pull although the second trigger pull did the trick (yes, I always checked the barrel to make sure that it wasn't a squib load).

I think I bought those primers sometime early in 2001, at a gun show in West Springfield, MA. Since then, I've gone through another 2000 CCI small pistol primers, and haven't had any problems, but for a brief moment in time, I was about to give up on CCI primers.
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