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Old November 17, 2002, 09:04 PM   #1
glock glockler
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Ultimate Combat Shotgun

Ok, I need some help with this one. I've always been a pistol guy with some rifle thrown in, but I've lately seen the light and think it would be a good idea to have a shotgun for close in work, but which one?

I like the short barreled Benelli Nova, but I'm somewhat disappointed that it doesn't come with a pistol grip (the more evil looking the better). I was also htinking about an M1 tactical, but their just a wee bit pricey. I've also heard that Franchi has come out with an incedibley simple yet high performance shotgun, though I know nothing more than that.

I was also told tha I should get a Remington 870 and have it sent out to Wilson combat to be pimped out.

So tell me, what is the best model and set up for a tactial combat shotgun?

Thanks
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Old November 17, 2002, 09:29 PM   #2
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the one you have in your hand when you need it.
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Old November 17, 2002, 10:30 PM   #3
9mmMike
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Hello fellow Glock shooter,
You will not find a lot of pistol grip SG fans here. There are a few but the majority are going to give you much more practical advice. Expect to hear things like "buy what fits you" and "buy a bunch of ammo and practice" etc...
These things are all true.
I prefer the 870 but I am far from a combat veteran and you should wait for some folks with years of wisdom to get on board with this post.
There are a host of wise and learned shotgunners here so pay attention!
Mike
pimped out? LOL
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Old November 18, 2002, 04:35 AM   #4
Dave McC
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Instead of looking for the Ultimate Combat Shotgun, why not become the Ultimate Combat Shotgunner?

A trained, cool hand is abso-$%^&*lutely deadly with an out of the box riot 870, or other short bbled Big Four pumpgun. A tyro equipped with the Loudenboomer Mag SP with all the options is not.

Here's the way to become the UCS.....

Buy a Big Four pumpgun. A used Police turnin 870 would be perfect.

Make sure the stock fits.Add a good pad if it lacks one.

Make sure the trigger breaks cleanly at less than 4 lbs.

Add a touch of bright yellow Yestor's enamel to the bead to make it easier to acquire in low light.

Buy a bunch of promo ammo at Walmart.Keep buying more.

Now shoot the thing.Shoot it at clays,tin cans, silohuettes,tombstone targets,landfill rats,etc. Hunt with it. On days you cannot shoot, make sure it's empty and practice your mount.

As for the "Practical" aspect of recreational shooting, imagine being able to acquire and hit two 4 inch wide discs moving at 35-50 MPH in different directions in under 4 seconds or so. The spine is about 4" wide at center of mass on people, and the human brain is about that wide also.

Use it until it feels like a body part instead of a tool. At that point,you'll be in a much better position to choose wisely what mods and addons, if any will help.

And shooting a shotgun in ANY fashion is fun.

During this, mine the Archives here for info on skills,etc. This IS the best resource on the Net for all things shotgun.

In fact, I hazard that a complete tyro could learn to shoot fairtomiddlin' just from reading the Archives and following instructions.Not the best way to learn, but possible.

HTH.

Questions?
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Old November 18, 2002, 06:58 AM   #5
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What Dave ^^^^^ said. Learn to shoot well, by then you will know what you need for accessories.
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Old November 18, 2002, 09:45 AM   #6
harrydog
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Some people swear by the 870 pump, but I think the Benelli M1 is the ultimate tactical type shotgun.
By the way, if you pick up a Benelli without the pistol grip stock, I have one that I'll sell you. I prefer the standard stock.
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Old November 18, 2002, 10:44 AM   #7
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How "tactical" do you want to get ?

If really serious, you want something that will not catch on things like brush, door jambs etc. You want something that will function reliably on either side and even upside down. Something that is not battery dependant. And not ammo sensitive. You want something that is comfortable to shoot....so you will shoot it more and thereby become good enough to justify having it.

Or...as previously stated...whatever you shoot very well will do just fine.

Sam
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Old November 18, 2002, 12:01 PM   #8
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i went with the 590 mossberg . i put about 300 hurderd in afterwards . it looks very tactical now . shoots like a dream 2 .
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Old November 18, 2002, 08:25 PM   #9
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Wilson Combat (scattergun technologies) makes great handguns, Hans Vang makes great shotguns.

If you decide to go that way, you money would be better spent on a Vang barrel.
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Old November 19, 2002, 11:47 AM   #10
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Can't go wrong with a Vang Comp. Remington 870's or Mossberg 590's!

http://vangcomp.com/
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Old November 19, 2002, 01:46 PM   #11
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I'm still wanting to get my paws on a Neostead.
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Old November 19, 2002, 01:56 PM   #12
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The Tactical Gods are smiling...

As any good reader knows by now, if it is Tactical, then it must be black. It should also be too large for close-quarters work, and too heavy for comfortable carry.

It must also posses massive shell capacity, and laser, scope, flashlight, and cup holder mounts.

It must also...O' never mind.

Get an 870 or mossberg 590 with mag extension, synthetic stock, lots of ammo, and get blastin'.

Report back in one month.

-LeadPumper
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Old November 19, 2002, 02:00 PM   #13
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I'm an 870 man. Off the shelf with 20 inch barrel and rifle sights. The only add on is a shell carrier on the stock.

I wouldn't trade it for anything. But its what works for me.

Then do what Dave said.
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Old November 19, 2002, 02:32 PM   #14
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I swear by the 870.
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Old November 19, 2002, 03:50 PM   #15
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I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical. It DOES have a pistol grip as well as a ghost ring sights and an 18 1/2" barrel.

The pistol grip is in addition to the regular stock. It is not a pistol grip only SG as several other manufacturers produce. The pistol grip only are very difficult to fire follow-up shots. JMHO.

My Tactical holds a total of 8 rounds of 2 3/4" shells. The only downside to this gun is its cost, which eight years ago was $900. You could probably buy two 870's for that amount and they would be my second choice as they're a great gun from what everyone says.

Safe shooting.
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Old November 19, 2002, 03:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
I'm an 870 man. Off the shelf with 20 inch barrel and rifle sights. The only add on is a shell carrier on the stock.
Oh yeah. That's for me except I like a factory extension and sling studs on my fine wood stocks. Perfection, for me.

Mike
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Old November 19, 2002, 05:49 PM   #17
Dave McC
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OK, it's time to throw this out one more time.

I live in central Md, I'm willing to travel up to two hours away by car.

I will shoot YOUR COF, YOUR range, YOUR choice of ammo. It can be tactical, practical, or just plain paranoid dementia.

YOU can use any darn shotgun you want to. You can modify in ANY fashion you want to, clamp, bolton, glue or weld ANY accessory on to it YOU choose to. If it has a belt feed, lazer sights, and stealth technology, so be it.

I'll use Frankenstein, my close to stock parts 870. An aftermarket stock, colonial choke tubes and a long cone are the total mods,IIRC.

If you use RR buck and slugs, so will I.

If you go for the full power stuff, also here.

Birdshot? Of course, using my trap reloads.

Slugs? H*!!, yes!

Range can be from contact to 50 yards.

We'll shoot for score, time decides ties.

And once we've established who,not what, is best, we swap shotguns and run the same d@mn course again, comparing the results.

Loser buys the coffee.

Results get posted rat cheer. Let's see if it's the Injun, or the arrow.

Any takers?
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Old November 19, 2002, 08:22 PM   #18
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Of course Dave McC has hit the nail on the head, just like some guys with a S&W Model 10 will outshoot a newbie with a Les Baer.

Buy a Mossberg, Remington, or Winchester pump, make sure the stock fits, add a butt cuff, buy a whole bunch of ammo, and PRACTICE!

What is "tactical"? Tactical is when the home invader opens your bedroom door at 2:50 a.m. only to be greeted with a chest load of buckshot. That's "tactical." He doesn't care how much you paid for the shotgun, what course you took, whether its got a sling or a night sight, a Sidesaddle, a Speedfeed stock, a laser light, or an extended magazine. You practiced, you hit, you won, he lost.

Reread Dave McC's posts. I don't know him, but he seems to know what he's talking about.
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Old November 19, 2002, 10:35 PM   #19
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Give the Remington Marine Magnum a try. Slickest 870 action, sling swivels, mag extension already on it and it won't rust (I live 4 blocks from the Pacific). Yeah, I know it's not all black, but I do not regard that as a problem given my situation. You could always paint it, if the (dull) electroless nickel finish is an issue. Mine is a very good gun. It patterns Federal H13200, surplus GI buck loads, and Remington 1 buck magnum loads very well. I like this model so much that I'm thinking of getting another one and having Trak-Lok sights installed on it.
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Old November 19, 2002, 10:41 PM   #20
Al Thompson
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Hi 91b,

Welcome to TFL!

I frequent a Remington LE distributor and they are of the opinion that Marine Magnums are actually the creme of the 870 crop. Considering there's about 125 years of experiance there, I'm inclined to agree.

What's a 91b ? Medic?
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Old November 19, 2002, 10:46 PM   #21
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I think the Marine Magnum is tops. Yeah, 91B40 used to be Medical NCO way back in the last century. I think they've changed the MOS's some lately.
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Old November 19, 2002, 11:13 PM   #22
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Oh fine, I bite
Personally I would advise other than pick one of the "big four" to pick whatever shotgun you are most comfortable with, whether that be one of the "big four" or other good guns like the browning bps, benelli nova, or various autos. My thinking says you will shoot a shoot you really like more than one your just "ok" with. I would get the firearm that I am most fond of that is in my price range while leaving plenty of money to buy ammo. I personally am not hugely fond of mossburgs and the Win 1300 (although I agree they fullfull their intented purposes), try as I may I can't seems to get in tune with 870s but I think they are a great shotgun and I know several people who shoot them very well. Currently I shoot a Ithaca 37 with an 18.5 in rifle sited barrel. No extended mag, side saddle, tac sling........and its not even black. Its just a design I learned shotgunning on, used ever since I could keep the barrel off the ground, hunted every legal species in my area with, shoot countless rounds through and generally can operate in my sleep. While it doesn't have any tactical goodies (not they are bad, just not necessary), and I now shoot a nova for birds and citori for clays, its an old friend that will forever be a living part of me. So like Dave always says, its the shooter not the gun.
Dave, if you ever end up in Iowa drop me a line and I will be more than happy to take you up on your offer. Now whether I would beat you or not, I will not or can not guess but win or lose it oughta be worth the price of the coffee.
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Old November 20, 2002, 06:47 AM   #23
Dave McC
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Best buddy's buying a farm in Iowa, M, you just might get to see me.

A coupla things.....

The big reasons I recommend the Big Four over some other good shotguns like the BPS and Nova are....

Long track record of good service.

Availability of parts and service. IE, I can get plenty of mechanics to work on my Toyota, but if I had a Ferrari(hah!) there would be fewer people able to fix it.

Low cost per use. Any of the Big Four are lots of bang for the buck.Maybe not as pretty as a Piotti but as much fun and more utility.

Anyone building a battery of shotguns for anything from WWIII to woodcock to clays would do well to start with one of the Big Four.

Specialized shotguns could come later.

91B and Giz, I understand that there's some aftermarket companies out there that will do a complete camo job on shotguns, using name brand patterns.This is similar to the factory paint jobs.

If true, the shiny MM finish needn't be a drawback.
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Old November 20, 2002, 06:57 AM   #24
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It is definitely the "Injun" !

I haven't frequented this board lately, but I'm sure glad to see so much common sense displayed. Hopefully, it is not just specific to shotgunners!

Those of us who remember Elvis and have been slinging lead for decades know that it IS the "Injun" and not the "arrow." Not much takes the place of lots of rounds downrange.

I like my Benelli Super 90 I've had for about 13 years, but I sure replaced the pistol grip stock with a standard stock. When strictly in the process of sending rounds out fast, the quality Benelli pistol grip certainly gives great support; however, for practical handling and such, it just gets in the way, at least for me.

Greg
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Old November 20, 2002, 07:16 AM   #25
Al Thompson
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Gee whiz 91b, thanks for the reminder! Last time I had a uniform on was in the last century - not that I feel old or anything..

Dave, there's an interesting train of thought that the evildoer is more likely to react at the sight of a highly visible firearm - think nickel or chrome. Idea is that the gun is much eaiser to recognize when visible.

I'm not sure I buy it, but food for thought.

IIRC, the Marine Magnum had to be specially selected due to the nature of the finish. Any surface defects would be exaggerated by the hard nickle finish.
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