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Old November 5, 2002, 12:49 AM   #1
roscoe
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.22 ammunition for Beretta 21

So it seem that there are two ways to go for self-defense ammunition in a mouse gun. There is the high-speed route, and CCI mini-mags seem to be the way to go here, and then there is the maximum mass route.

Aguila makes a subsonic .22 round that has 60 grains of lead, which is twice the mass of pretty much all other other ammunition. Strong opinions about mouse guns aside, what do you good folks think about the use of this ammunition in the little Beretta? I have heard interesting things about the performance of this round in ballistic gellatin, but I don't know ifit will perform all that well coming from a short barrel.

Let me just say that I have fired plenty of it at paper through the little gun and it cycles no problem. I might also add that some of the rounds appear to keyhole, but I am not sure that is a bad thing for self defense applications. One thing I like is that it is much quieter, which is good since that pistol is pretty loud for a .22.

This is a pistol that a single woman (not me, obiously) will be using as a self-defense gun, so accuracy at more than 30 feet is not really that important. And, yes, arrangements are being made to get her a more appropriate firearm (.38 snubbie I expect).

Thanks.
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Old November 5, 2002, 02:27 AM   #2
sm
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I have used the.22- SSS 60 gr of which you speak. Personally -I didn't like it. It funtioned fine, but not impressed with testing in phone books, wet newprint, and I've incorporated WEESHOOT's method--shooting dirt. Don't laugh, it really surprised me, I like and have learned from this.

Personally for me the Winchester X22lr have always worked reliable for me in a 21A. For a hollowpoint I also like the 40 gr powerpoint by Win. CCI Stingers would be a 3 choice for me. Please check in your gun-guns have amind of their own as you know. FWIW the X22lr have always worked in anything I run them through.

IMO the 60 gr -well it keyholed for one, didn't penetrate as others(due to key-hole) and my gut just said--stay with what has run sooo many times.

HTH
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Old November 5, 2002, 03:06 AM   #3
ohen cepel
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I don't think the 60gr is the way to go if it's key-holing.

I have always run Stingers in mine with no problems and think they are a good option.

I tried the Quik-Shok stuff. Didn't function reliably in my 21. Stopped playing with them and went back to the Stingers.

My 2 cents.
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Old November 5, 2002, 06:16 AM   #4
seeker_two
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Split the difference (heavy vs. fast).

Try the Velocitors by CCI....
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Old November 5, 2002, 08:24 AM   #5
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Yep. I like Velocitors in my P22. Of course, I've shot a lot of Stingers too. But the 40 grains of the Velocitors get's my vote.

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Old November 5, 2002, 11:46 AM   #6
sm
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CCI Velociters huh? Well I haven't tried these. I usually buy the x22lr by the brick and in teaching shooters with various makes and actions they have always worked-plus availabale locally.

IIRC stingers were not recommended for some of the Ruger mkII and 22/45, so just never stocked up, little hard to find also. 21A ran fine with them--just a matter of using what I had a lot of and having something that would work in other's rimfire.

So, educate me, was the non recommend for ruger due to a longer case? (or did I dream that). Is the Velocitor same case length as most (say for instance x22lr). I don't have stingers to compare length. Umm you guys really like the velocitors-ok- and they work in the 21a to boot. I too use the 21A to teach sometimes. Tip ups are great for arthritic hands, and single loading for newbies. Naturally we step up to something better suited.
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Old November 5, 2002, 07:11 PM   #7
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I just compared a Stinger to a Velocitor...

They had almost the same OAL, however the Velocitor case was shorter. Presumably, this is due to the bigger bullet of the Velocitor.
I've always liked Stingers. However, if Velocitors prove reliable in all my .22's, I'm switching. Velcitors are more expensive. I'm sure I could have found them cheaper, if I wanted to look around a bit. But, I was in a hurry to shoot my new P22. I paid $4.49 for 50.

KR
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Old November 5, 2002, 07:51 PM   #8
sm
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KR , thanks for checking. Stingers I've used with no problems, other than availability. Umm Velocitors are pricey , but worth a try.

FWIW, I checked the owners's manuels for the ruger MKII and 22/45, I did NOT see anything that said not to use Stingers. Shotshells ARE NOT recommended. I also checked 21 A manuels, no restriction, other than the normal-reloaded, split case...common sense stuff.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:02 AM   #9
weldonjr2001
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If it's a single woman you really care about, I'd hurry up that caliber upgrade. A rimfire isn't the most reliable thing to be using for self defense, even thought they're fun to plink with.
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Old November 6, 2002, 07:57 AM   #10
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A LOT of both men AND women "start out" with a .22 cal...

...But as they practice (usually pretty quickly too!), they look at the other shooters at the range and think--"I can handle that TOO"! Then they get their .38 snubbie or larger auto the next trip to the gun shop. .22's are a good place to start and I love the thin, light little P22 on my hip right now as I sit in my recliner. (Quite joyously, I might add. After the election that I was so worried about!) However, later today, when I go out it will be a Glock 27 or J-frame on my hip with extra ammunition. (Even now, I've backed up the P22 with a Kel-Tec P-32 that's in my pocket.

KR
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Old November 6, 2002, 02:37 PM   #11
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WARNING--Reality check

The .22 Beretta 21A can not be easily cleared in the event of a non-firing "dud" round. It has no extractor, using the propellent to blow the expended round out. Pulling back on the slide will not extract a round from the chamber. Very bad juju when Mr. Murphy visits. You must tilt up the barrel and knock the round out, then lock the barrel and work the slide before the gun will shoot again. Because of the unreliability of even good rimfire ammo, the 21A in this caliber is not a good choice for defense, IMHO.

That being said, I have tested .22 ammo for penetration in wet books, and Mini Mags are the clear winner and would be my choice.
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Old November 6, 2002, 04:31 PM   #12
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Hey Ledbetter...

I haven't fired any Mini-Mags. You like them better than Stingers or Velocitors?

Thanks,
KR
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Old November 6, 2002, 05:06 PM   #13
Ledbetter
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Velocitors break up real quick. Good for bunnies, bad for leather-clad bad guys.

Mini Mags are just a 40 grain Stinger pretty much; similar charge, heavier bullet (Stinger is 33 grain), slightly slower. Well worth trying.
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Old November 16, 2002, 03:25 PM   #14
Hunterman
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Any decent smith can pin-down the rear

of the "popup" barrel of the M21, slot the slide, and add one of Brownell's "generic" 22 rifle extractors.
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Old November 16, 2002, 05:07 PM   #15
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Thanks Ledbetter...

I'll buy and try some Mini-Mags.

KR
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Old November 17, 2002, 10:18 AM   #16
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I have a Beretta 21A, and it prefers hotter ammo, even normal HV ammo isn't 100% in it. CCI MiniMags and MiniMag +V ammo seems to work the best of stuff I've tried.
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Old November 17, 2002, 01:20 PM   #17
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Roscoe - Our situations sound quite similar. I bought a 21A recently and posted similar question in Semi-Auto forum here a couple of months back. I also got some excellent input from TFLers. For the present, I loaded up with Winchester Super X for practice and Velocitors for carry. If clean (less than 200 rounds) my 21A runs 100% reliably with both. May try some Mini Mags next.

I also let a single female friend try the 21A when she was recently in the market for deep concealment "always" gun for retail environment. (NOT to stop robberies, but for "in the face use" in the event BG decided he wanted to more than just $).

She and the 21A did not get along at all! More complex than she wanted to learn, especially in light of repeated malfunctions after just one or two shots. Yet, when I took it, no problems whatsoever. Possibly a little limp wrisiting on her part (I, know ... with a 22???) or hitting mag release with finger during recoil ... Fortunately, we were able to quickly transition to a S&W Model 36 that went bang EVERY TIME she pulled the trigger. It is now on-bod for her and the 21A stays with me as a BUG. I am much more comfortable with her carrying the Chief, but feel, if reliable for her, the 21A would be better than what she was carrying - NOTHING most of the time.

Along that line, we have t-shirts due in front the printer this week with the message: "Friends don't let friends carry mouse guns. Unless they would otherwise not carry at all".

Best of luck to you and friend with "choices".
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