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Old October 31, 2002, 09:50 PM   #26
wun_8_seven
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i'll wear whatever is comfortable thank you very much. i feel no need to try to fit someones image of what they deem is appropriate. just cause you wear armani suit's dosen't make you better or even a decent person. 187
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Old October 31, 2002, 10:21 PM   #27
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What scene would you rather see at YOUR range?

A
Long haired, camo wearing "gun nut"?


B
Well dressed, clean cut "professional" type?


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Old October 31, 2002, 10:29 PM   #28
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Seems to me that the liberal media establishment has some culpability here. They could go to a range with 90% clean cut, family oriented people and if they had to they would wait until the one greaseball of the day showed up to do their interview.
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Old October 31, 2002, 10:40 PM   #29
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I don't speak to my ex-wife very much, but I will have a word with her about her appearance, and the odor.
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Old October 31, 2002, 11:08 PM   #30
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Enron execs wore suits, as did Tyco, Worldcom, and Arthur Andersen. They might not have acted "professional," but hey, they sure looked "professional!" Politicians, ATF, and the FBI wear suits. Sure, they trample all over your rights, but they look good while doing it! Catholic priests look priestly but are capable of sinning just the same, and it goes on...do we excuse them because they are well-dressed? Dot-bombs did not fail because of casual dress, rather, they failed due to poor or non-existant business models.

Divide and conquer? Is anything in the media not driven by prejudice and stereotype? Would HCI/VPC/MMM not have someone standing by dressed as a "Bubba" if none could be found?

"The clothes do not make the man (or woman)." A slime in a suit is still a slime, and a good guy is still a good guy even if he's just wearing rags!

Personally, I wear a comfortable combination of t-shirt (with sleeves), jeans or cargo pants, and low-buck sneakers. I would not presume to tell others how to dress at the range because THEY ARE NOT THE ENEMY. A teenager dressed like a banger may be a banger, or he may be a straight-A student dressed to the latest pop-culture fad. A man dressed in Islamic garb may be a terrorist-in-training, or he may be a Republican-voting, business-owning, law-abiding man with deeply religious values. A woman dressed "trashy" does not mean she IS "trashy." All of them are probably better shots than me too...

OK, maybe I'm a hypocrite after all because I strongly suggest brimmed hats for everyone (and keep several spares in the car) and no low-cut shirts for women (and keep a spare t-shirt too)...

I also (believe, feel, think, whatever) a political event or business function does suggest a "business-casual" or better method of clothes selection.
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Old October 31, 2002, 11:09 PM   #31
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Good one Zundfolge!
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Old October 31, 2002, 11:10 PM   #32
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Did not mean to offend

hope no one took my comments the wrong way, as I certainly did not mean to offend anyone.Just trying to point out that we live in a world where unfortunately perception is or becomes reality.

No one should have to "dress" to go to the range but just look in the mirror maybe before you leave, and think "would I be happy with someone looking like this representing my sport/hobby".

The point I was trying to make in my earlier post was, that no one knew that TV crew was coming to the range that day, and the two guys that ended up on the news may have been hard working law abiding citizens. BUT because of the way they looked they for those brief seconds represented US to the non shooting public.
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Old October 31, 2002, 11:38 PM   #33
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media cammies

Simple, dress comfortable at the range & when at a media event, dress cleanly. Remember, when in enemy territory, dress in the fashions of the enemy( This is war after all). I'm actually comforted when I see the diversity of gunowners at the range. Your clothes says a lot before you open your mouth & knowing the way media edits to get their point across, a well dress pro gun speaker has a better chance of appealing to the general public than the cammy wearing ones. The people you are trying to get your message to generally don't wear cammies, & anything you say no matter how brilliant, will already be blocked by your appearance. Yes, It sucks but its reality. I never wore any shirts with little animals on them,But will wear a suit for official events. I'm a tattooed blue collar worker & proud of it.
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Old October 31, 2002, 11:48 PM   #34
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You know, one is generally required to sign a release if photographed or filmed for public consumption. If you're unidentifiable (black bars over your eyes or a thousand yard pan) that's not so. Maybe we could just encourage those who are not "dressed for the occasion" to sit it out. They may lose their 15 minutes of fame but odds are they'll get another chance.
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Old November 1, 2002, 12:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
birdie
We as shooters/gun owners need to clean up our act.

To often at the ranges I visit I see people dressed in military clothes, those tee shirts without arms, covered in the "cold dead fingers" kind of slogans, dirty jeans and general poor personnal hygiene. This reflects badly on the majority of gun owners who are not like this.

Recently a local TV station did a piece on CCW in our state and visited a range that I was at with a couple of my friends. We had just come from the office and where dressed in pants, polo shirts, jackets, basic business casual. Also at the range were a bunch of people as described above.

Guess who made it onto the local news, not us, but they showed a couple of guys, torn jeans, shirts with the stupid slogans, long hair, baseball caps firing large calibre hand guns.

Needless to say the news portrayed people who are interested in guns and/or CCW as low income, uneducated trash.
you're blaming the wrong people (the ones who dress in a manner that you don't like),

the fault there lies squarely/purely on the media which I'd guess you'd agree always tries to portray all gun owners this way.

I don't dress like a camo-clad sog tactical swat wannabe,
nor do I dress like a neo nazi,

but I believe in everyone's right to dress for the most part how they want.

The fact that the media picks the nastiest/crappiest looking people to show on the news is exactly the media's goal.

Ad campaigns for one candidate will show ugly mean-faced pics of the other candidate.

And polo shirts & kakis that you choose to wear?
welp, that's your choice to wear that CRAP.
I hate kakis and I totally hate polo shirts.

I wear jeans, denim shirts, dickies shirts, t-shirts with guitars (but not nasty rock slogans).

I wear what I want. You need to let others do the same, please; don't step down to the behavior of the freedom-robbing antis; and don't judge people by their clothing alone, take into account much more their behavior.

However as for doing a "rant" on the forum, please do continue to do so, this IS the place for such a thing so it can be discussed.
Sadly this particular forum appears too anal to allow NORMAL discussion of one's feelings about a topic, so rants here may not even be allowed sometimes.
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Old November 1, 2002, 12:15 AM   #36
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"we live in a world where unfortunately perception is or becomes reality", is exactly my point in that the media is extremely adept at shaping public opinion according to their own bias. Some in the shooting community have become more proactive with journalists actually organizing shoots to give these people first hand experiences to show why we enjoy our sport so much. Also to show that were not the monsters we have been portrayed to be to the public for decades, were some of the best people this country has. To a biased liberal journalist, a bath and a change of clothes will do nothing to stop him from getting his slanted message out to the public because he will always find the footage he needs and edit it to show the slant he wants, but an afternoon at the range with decent people just may begin to expand his narrow mind a bit.
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Old November 1, 2002, 12:22 AM   #37
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Agree with Vulcan...

My idea of 'Cammo' is to blend into my suroundings
My range 'costume' makes no 'statement' = none needed. The only way I stand out at a range is if someone scopes my targets
Like Oleg, I have done some photography and design work - my latest layout is a pair of cap emblams = crosshairs of a scope
Subtle, understated. If you know what the shape is, you'll pay attention, if you haven't a clue, you won't get one
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Old November 1, 2002, 12:33 AM   #38
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In the early 80s there was a gun show in Dallas about every third weekend. The survivalist movement was very big in that area at that time. My wife and I had Olive drab T-shirts made up (she looked great in that tank top style, I went basic sleaveless) with a picture of a mushroom cloud and the caption "I'd rather die in the firestorm than live with survivalists". We got a lot more thumbs up than dirty looks.
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Old November 1, 2002, 01:07 AM   #39
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By all means, rant!

Just don't lose sight of the objective. ALL gun owners are allies in RKBA, and whatever their preferences in religion (or lack thereof), cars, guns, sex, color that they paint their house, paper or plastic, if they super-size or not are IRRELEVANT to RKBA.
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Old November 1, 2002, 01:08 AM   #40
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OK, we know we have an image problem.
We know the Media is going to continue to find those few that would paint us in the worst possible light even if 99% of us did our best to dress up for the range.

How bout we come up with some ideas to change our image? Doesn't have to be drastic or big. A little at a time goes a long way.
Let's start with some of the more visible things.
Why don't we start with the places we shoot at? Talk to the range owners- see if we can get them to do a facelift of the place-better lighting, fresh coat of paint would help, available brooms to sweep the brass etc. As mentioned earlier, start some good habits at the range and lead by example.
How bout forming volunteer groups to maintain the public range if there's no one doing it at the range.
Let's be realistic, dressing up (nothing fancy just not slobbish) and cleaning up the place is good but won't solve our problem. We need to do more! We need to get the word out there to the non-gunners but we don't have access to the same kind of coverage those liberal media types do. How bout getting to know some media people and letting them see what kind of people we really are? Ask around see if you know someone who knows someone in the Media industry.
Anyone with any other ideas- let's hear it!
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Old November 1, 2002, 01:14 AM   #41
cor-man
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Quote:
archeryfanatic
OK, we know we have an image problem.
How bout we come up with some ideas to change our image?
Let's start with some of the more visible things.
Let's be realistic, dressing up,
99% of us did our best to dress up for the range.
this (mis)'quotation' feature is so fun!
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Old November 1, 2002, 01:40 AM   #42
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cor-man, you have PM.

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Old November 1, 2002, 02:02 AM   #43
cor-man
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what's PM and how do I get it?

I have email, I'll go check that,
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Old November 1, 2002, 02:11 AM   #44
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JohnnyGuest,
I finally got my PM's, I didn't know it was on the forum, I thought they went to my email or something and I hadn't ever gotten email from the forum or forumites,

now I found it.
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Old November 1, 2002, 02:52 AM   #45
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Sorry birdie,

If 100 of you show up in Tuxedos and the lamestream media can't find even one solitary low-life in grunge clothing, the TV guys will bring one or invite a few local homeless into the range to pop a few caps.

The media will ALWAYS frame guns in an Anti-gun light.:barf:

We don't need shooters in suits. We need a conservative media to tell the truth about how safe typical middle-class gun owners are.
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Old November 1, 2002, 03:05 AM   #46
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cor-man

Thanks for the visual aid cor-man. Not exactly what I had in mind!
On the positive side, might inspire others to come up with some good ideas to improve our image.
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Old November 1, 2002, 03:20 AM   #47
cor-man
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is this outfit 'too tactical' for the range?


it evidently drew too much attention at the symphony.

of course the arm-flapping didn't help either.

(...are you guys starting to think I have a 'thing' for pics of guys in tights?) :barf:
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Old November 1, 2002, 05:14 AM   #48
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here's another"what's best for us"post. i tried to be polite to the fella that thought he knew what the best gun was for everyone,and i will be polite to you.
we are a multi-cultural society,and not just in ethnicity.
first,nobody said every gun owner needs to be a line republican,but that is how everyone else percieves us.that said,do you think the dressed and squared away approach would work any better? no,because the opposite of the sloppy hillbilly,is the ordered nazi;as percieved by the anti-gunner.
the anti-gunner will always see you in negative light,because they have chosen to misunderstand.they lie to themselves,and know it.they lie to anyone sitting on the fence.
the last thing any of us should be doing is embracing our enemies tactics. indeed,their tactics work because evil is more efficient than good. do not hide the fact that some gun owners are cruel idiots,or overaggressive yuppies waiting for their chance. i believe we should speak of freedom,and gun ownership from the highest ground.
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Old November 1, 2002, 09:36 AM   #49
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anybody know where the swedish bekini team

practices for their IPSC matches? Now those ladies know how to dress for the range!
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Old November 1, 2002, 09:58 AM   #50
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attire

I have to agree with some of the other posts that if we want to be perceived as clean cut "normal" people we should dress in clean neat attire at the range.

On the other hand I think that the liberal media has already decided how they are going to portray us and no matter how we dress, comb our hair or talk they WILL get their point across. Much like shoot the arrow into the tree and then hang a target on it.

It wasn't very many years ago when everybody in this country looked at a group of leather clad bikers and thought "dirty,lowlife,scumbags". most people have since learned that bikers are not just like that but are also law abiding, doctors, bankers, computer geeks, carpenters, plumbers and all sorts of people that make up our society. Of course the media helped educate the public once they started doing stories on them showing them in a favorable light.

I think that if we remain in the spotlight people will learn that we are not just what they see. It would also help if we could somehow become friends of the media. I have no idea how that would happen though as we are already being painted as terrorists in the making by the media.

Oh well.......I just wanted to say that both sides of the fence in this case are right. We can dress as we see fit ....and it would be helpful to the cause if we dressed more conservative but the hell with it! We are what we are. I'm proud of what I am and what I believe in and if they don't like it...tough crap!
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